Dark Night of the Soul

[Jhanananda]

I have found that there are at least 8 stages to the dark night of the soul.  It seems that each stage of the spiritual awakening triggers an even deeper spiritual crisis.  I found this blog by Michael Hawkins, and the responses to his blog, most interesting.
Dark Night of the Soul

[Soren]

Meditation induces deep relaxation. Unfortunately, this reveals deep unconscious problems (I believe). http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~wegner/pdfs/Wegner,Broome,%20&%20Blumberg%201997.pdf

I think that accessing deeper and deeper states reveals more deeply held beliefs that are the cause of suffering. Just last night I had one of the worst anxiety attacks I have ever experienced. But I had already trained myself to not need to blame "outside" things for my suffering. So I was able to look this anxiety in the face and realize that the root of it was a craving for a self.

I have been experiencing a lot of doubt that meditation will work mostly because of the fact that it doesn't seem to help a lot of other people.

Just yesterday I made a post saying:

Let's give examples of people who weren't experiencing the charisms:
 http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/MaryGarden.html
http://www.suggestibility.org/surprise.php

Now of course you might say "dark night of the soul," but the fact that there were people who were stuck in the TM program for 30 years in this depressive state begs to differ.

My doubts about being able to conquer this "dark night" are now gone. I think that the reason people remain stuck there is because they aren't instructed to look at the true cause of suffering (whether it be craving for people to like you or a more serious crisis like a simple craving for a self).

[Jhanananda]

Meditation induces deep relaxation. Unfortunately, this reveals deep unconscious problems (I believe). http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~wegner/pdfs/Wegner,Broome,%20&%20Blumberg%201997.pdf

I think that accessing deeper and deeper states reveals more deeply held beliefs that are the cause of suffering.

Deep relaxation CAN reveal problems that have been buried deep in the subconscious for a long time, if those problems exist.  However, those who meditate deeply eventually work their way through those deep subconscious issues.  This is part of what the spiritual crisis is about.

Just last night I had one of the worst anxiety attacks I have ever experienced. But I had already trained myself to not need to blame "outside" things for my suffering. So I was able to look this anxiety in the face and realize that the root of it was a craving for a self.

While I am sorry that you had a n anxiety attack; nonetheless, I know anxiety attacks are part of the contemplative journey, so we must learn to deal with them, if we are going to be successful in the contemplative arts.

I have been experiencing a lot of doubt that meditation will work mostly because of the fact that it doesn't seem to help a lot of other people.

Just because most people and most meditation teachers get absolutely nothing out of meditation, does not mean that there is nothing to get out of learning to meditate skillfully.  It just so happens few meditation teachers are skillful in the practice of meditation so we can conclude that few people who follow the instructions of frauds are going to get anything out of their instruction.

Just yesterday I made a post saying:

Let's give examples of people who weren't experiencing the charisms:
 http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/MaryGarden.html
http://www.suggestibility.org/surprise.php

Now of course you might say "dark night of the soul," but the fact that there were people who were stuck in the TM program for 30 years in this depressive state begs to differ.

Well, TM proves my point, the so-called MahaRishis was a fraud, therefore those who followed him are unlikely to find success in meditation.  The popularity of TM is only proof there are a lot of fools in the world.

My doubts about being able to conquer this "dark night" are now gone. I think that the reason people remain stuck there is because they aren't instructed to look at the true cause of suffering (whether it be craving for people to like you or a more serious crisis like a simple craving for a self).

It is good that your anxiety attack is gone, and simply intellectually investigating the causes of one's suffering can help; however, it is mastering the 4 jhanas that will cure you of your anxieties, not just investigating them.

[Soren]

Deep relaxation CAN reveal problems that have been buried deep in the subconscious for a long time, if those problems exist.  However, those who meditate deeply eventually work their way through those deep subconscious issues.  This is part of what the spiritual crisis is about.

While I am sorry that you had a n anxiety attack; nonetheless, I know anxiety attacks are part of the contemplative journey, so we must learn to deal with them, if we are going to be successful in the contemplative arts.

I am actually grateful for it because of the opportunity it gave me to work through it.

Just because most people and most meditation teachers get absolutely nothing out of meditation, does not mean that there is nothing to get out of learning to meditate skillfully.  It just so happens few meditation teachers are skillful in the practice of meditation so we can conclude that few people who follow the instructions of frauds are going to get anything out of their instruction.

I have to agree with you. My doubts are nearly gone now.

[Jhanananda]

The Dark Knight of the Soul
For some, meditation has become more curse than cure. Willoughby Britton wants to know why.
Tomas Rocha Jun 25 2014, 8:45 AM ET

I know Willoughby.  She comes from a wealthy family and studied at the University of Arizona where I studied at the same time.  She found favor with the department head; whereas I did not; thus she skated through her PhD, and my graduate work was not accepted.  It so happens I found the fruit of the contemplative life, which requires negotiating the dark night of the soul, she has not.  If she wants to understand the dark night of the soul, then should could contact me, but she has not.  Those who find name, fame, power and wealth rarely find enlightenment.

[Alexander]

The Dark Knight of the Soul
For some, meditation has become more curse than cure. Willoughby Britton wants to know why.
Tomas Rocha Jun 25 2014, 8:45 AM ET

I know Willoughby.  She comes from a wealthy family and studied at the University of Arizona where I studied at the same time.  She found favor with the department head; whereas I did not; thus she skated through her PhD, and my graduate work was not accepted.  It so happens I found the fruit of the contemplative life, which requires negotiating the dark night of the soul, she has not.  If she wants to understand the dark night of the soul, then should could contact me, but she has not.  Those who find name, fame, power and wealth rarely find enlightenment.

In Christianity there is the concept of the "vir dolorum," or man of sorrows: that Christ "will be rejected by men, and acquainted with grief." For anyone interested in the path of the "imitation of Christ," they must experience the same.

I would argue that the experience of misfortune may be one of the most potent ways to break our fetters to the world. Misfortune, when put on a righteous person, can separate and liberate that person from the world. We could also argue on the basis of chemistry, or alchemy, that misfortune can transform us more rapidly and profoundly in the spirit than any discipline.

Inversely, an experience of fortune may have the opposite effect, of binding us more and more to the world.

If that woman is sincere, you should try to contact her. You are probably the only "way" she has. Although, if this is all just a hobby for her, then you are already closed to her as an option.

I have come to understand how rare people like us are in the world. I understand now that if I meet someone, "offer" to teach them, and then they draw away, what massive consequences that has. That person is now stuck in samsara. At least they missed an opportunity.

[Jhanananda]

We, who are dedicated to the contemplative life to the point of being transformed into mystics, do not need to seek misfortune, because the herd will marginalize us.

As example, in the case of contacting Willoughby to help her understand the religious experience and the dark night of the soul, we know each other.  I tried to have a conversation with her about the religious experience.  She was completely closed to what I had to say; and she was even aligned with a whole group of people who ousted me from a local meditation group, where I had been a member for 12 years, and had worked for several years on their board; because they believed that my message as a mystic was a pernicious disease.

[Michael Hawkins]

Thanks to Jeffrey and those who commented on his post here.  I did not see this post before responding to Alexander's about "Inaction and the Dark Night."  In any case, I am living proof that deep meditation will likely uncover deep-seated, unexamined, powerful emotions that are not succeptible to being "rooted out" -- they must be genuinely engaged, and since the ego is fully-invested in denying and resisting the distasteful aspects of our deepest being, this engagement can be prolonged, ugly and desperate at times.  I can't tell you how many times I wish I'd never set butt to meditation cushion -- but jhana erupted through contemplation, and its bliss, joy and ecstasy have become as ever-present as the air in my lungs -- so there's no going back.

I wrote about my current approach to navigating the Garden of Fetters under Alexander's post:

http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,747.msg3190.html#msg3190

[Michel]

Thank you, Michael, for your most interesting comments on your personal dark night experiences.

 Not having had a dark night of the soul experience, it is disconcerting to hear tales from you old salts who have gone forth and done battle with your demons in the darkest and remotest places of your being. What compels me to want to undergo such a ordeal as the dark night is the idea of endless rebirths in samsara and the endless suffering that that would bring. Perhaps if I were to be confronted by my demons I might want to end it all by my own hand, thinking maybe the next round of existence could be somehow better.

Could we say that the dark night is equivalent to the Five Hindrances on steroids? You say that the deep-seated, unexamined, powerful emotions of the dark night are not succeptible to being "rooted out". Then if that is so, the Buddha's teaching on The Four Right Efforts of the N8P are insufficient to overcome the dark night. Therefore the teachings are incomplete since he leaves us no instructions for overcoming the dark night. To me, it is very odd that nowhere in the Pali canon do we find teachings on how to overcome the dark night. You would think that the dark night was a common experience encountered by those of his disciples who attained the deeper states of samadhi. I am totally perplexed as to why we have no teachings on this most important subject. Did someone alter the discourses? I would argue that there could have been a strong motivation for leaving this teaching out. Who wants to follow the Buddha's path if getting to Nibanna is all blood, sweat and tears punctuated be some bliss and ectasy? The Buddhist priesthood would have no followers.

[Alexander]

...Then if that is so, the Buddha's teaching on The Four Right Efforts of the N8P are insufficient to overcome the dark night. Therefore the teachings are incomplete since he leaves us no instructions for overcoming the dark night. To me, it is very odd that nowhere in the Pali canon do we find teachings on how to overcome the dark night. You would think that the dark night was a common experience encountered by those of his disciples who attained the deeper states of samadhi. I am totally perplexed as to why we have no teachings on this most important subject. Did someone alter the discourses? I would argue that there could have been a strong motivation for leaving this teaching out. Who wants to follow the Buddha's path if getting to Nibanna is all blood, sweat and tears punctuated be some bliss and ectasy? The Buddhist priesthood would have no followers.

One of the things I have hypothesized is that the Buddha's teaching method was very different from that of other spiritual teachers in history. If we look at the teachings of the Buddha, we find that they are very systematic. For example, the Buddha says "these are the 7 marks of an arahant"; "these are the 4 noble ones"; "these are the 10 fetters"; and so on. Everything is specific and clear. Does this mean he was not as interested in sharing his personal experiences? Could that explain the missing subjects? It could be possible.

[Michael Hawkins]

You say that the deep-seated, unexamined, powerful emotions of the dark night are not susceptible to being "rooted out". Then if that is so, the Buddha's teaching on The Four Right Efforts of the N8P are insufficient to overcome the dark night. Therefore the teachings are incomplete since he leaves us no instructions for overcoming the dark night.

Hello Michel,

Sorry to have given the impression that the Buddha's teachings are insufficient.  Perhaps I should've said that, having found myself in the midst of a prolonged Dark Night, and come to a place where I feel helpless, hopeless and disempowered as an ego identity... there is a sense that all the effort in the world won't "root out" the fetters; it is beyond my limited human power to do so.  What I'm also getting is that my ego-resistance is what plugs things up.  The whole thing seems geared toward forcing a genuine surrender to a level of existence that is far, far beyond my limited human perspective -- or else, as you say, the temptation to pull the plug on this life and just try again some other time becomes enticing, indeed.  I'm now approaching the Dark Night Journey as a challenge to let go of my own agenda completely, allowing an infinitely greater Consciousness to work on me in the Garden of Fetters....

[Jhanananda]

Thanks to Jeffrey and those who commented on his post here.  I did not see this post before responding to Alexander's about "Inaction and the Dark Night."  In any case, I am living proof that deep meditation will likely uncover deep-seated, unexamined, powerful emotions that are not succeptible to being "rooted out" -- they must be genuinely engaged, and since the ego is fully-invested in denying and resisting the distasteful aspects of our deepest being, this engagement can be prolonged, ugly and desperate at times.  I can't tell you how many times I wish I'd never set butt to meditation cushion -- but jhana erupted through contemplation, and its bliss, joy and ecstasy have become as ever-present as the air in my lungs -- so there's no going back.

The dark night of the soul is the part we mystic generally do not tell people about, or they would never do the work to achieve results.  I am glad you achieved those results, but, as you know from experience, it takes vigilance to renew ourselves in meditation every day, several times a day.

Thank you, Michael, for your most interesting comments on your personal dark night experiences...

Could we say that the dark night is equivalent to the Five Hindrances on steroids? You say that the deep-seated, unexamined, powerful emotions of the dark night are not succeptible to being "rooted out". Then if that is so, the Buddha's teaching on The Four Right Efforts of the N8P are insufficient to overcome the dark night. Therefore the teachings are incomplete since he leaves us no instructions for overcoming the dark night. To me, it is very odd that nowhere in the Pali canon do we find teachings on how to overcome the dark night. You would think that the dark night was a common experience encountered by those of his disciples who attained the deeper states of samadhi. I am totally perplexed as to why we have no teachings on this most important subject. Did someone alter the discourses? I would argue that there could have been a strong motivation for leaving this teaching out. Who wants to follow the Buddha's path if getting to Nibanna is all blood, sweat and tears punctuated be some bliss and ectasy? The Buddhist priesthood would have no followers.

There is a reason why the Pali Canon documents that hundreds of Siddhartha Gautama's disciples committed suicide, and in the end even he committed suicide.

One of the things I have hypothesized is that the Buddha's teaching method was very different from that of other spiritual teachers in history. If we look at the teachings of the Buddha, we find that they are very systematic. For example, the Buddha says "these are the 7 marks of an arahant"; "these are the 4 noble ones"; "these are the 10 fetters"; and so on. Everything is specific and clear. Does this mean he was not as interested in sharing his personal experiences? Could that explain the missing subjects? It could be possible.

It is worth noting that the Pali canon does not contain a great deal of personal experiences of Siddhartha Gautama's.

[Michel]

One of the things I have hypothesized is that the Buddha's teaching method was very different from that of other spiritual teachers in history. If we look at the teachings of the Buddha, we find that they are very systematic. For example, the Buddha says "these are the 7 marks of an arahant"; "these are the 4 noble ones"; "these are the 10 fetters"; and so on. Everything is specific and clear. Does this mean he was not as interested in sharing his personal experiences? Could that explain the missing subjects? It could be possible.

Interesting hypothesis. The Buddha said that his teachings were complete, that there was nothing in the teachings that he withheld from his disciples.(wish I could offer a sutta quote in support) I think that he would have wanted to tell his disciples how to navigate the spiritual crisis. It's the missing elephant in the room.

[Jhanananda]

Yes, I agree, Michel. Any spiritual/contemplative teaching that does not resolve the spiritual crisis is incomplete, and thus not addressing the "missing elephant in the room."  On the other hand, I would think, considering the epistemology of the Pali Canon, then the 4 noble truths would be Siddhartha Gautama's answer to the spiritual crisis.

Let us take for example the hypersensitive phase of the spiritual crisis, which falls between mastering the 2nd and 3rd religious experiences.  Here the mystic has stilled his, or her mind, which has allowed the development of one's sensitivity, which is needed to become aware of the charisms of the 3rd stage of the religious experience.  The hypersensitivity is often extremely annoying, and can drive crazy an emerging mystic who has no skilled guidance, such as the El, who I referred to under another thread.

The solution in the 4NT is let go, and keep meditating, and following the rest of the N8P.  It will work, but it does not explain why one who has stilled one's mind is suddenly finding the world an annoying place to be in.  On the other hand, the spiritual crisis serves to drive the emerging mystic into the solitude one needs to further develop as a mystic.  The deeper one goes into traversing the religious experiences, the more one will seek solitude.

[Michel]

Hello Michel,

Sorry to have given the impression that the Buddha's teachings are insufficient.  Perhaps I should've said that, having found myself in the midst of a prolonged Dark Night, and come to a place where I feel helpless, hopeless and disempowered as an ego identity... there is a sense that all the effort in the world won't "root out" the fetters; it is beyond my limited human power to do so.  What I'm also getting is that my ego-resistance is what plugs things up.  The whole thing seems geared toward forcing a genuine surrender to a level of existence that is far, far beyond my limited human perspective -- or else, as you say, the temptation to pull the plug on this life and just try again some other time becomes enticing, indeed.  I'm now approaching the Dark Night Journey as a challenge to let go of my own agenda completely, allowing an infinitely greater Consciousness to work on me in the Garden of Fetters....

Do you find that practicing the N8P is helpful in anyway to make your suffering manageable? I hope that you manage somehow to overcome your prolonged dark night and that it's the last one you have to go through.