physiological changes due to deep meditation

[stugandolf]

Cal, I am not sure what I mean either.  Perhaps this due is my problem with the word know.  For example, in German there are two words for the verb to  know,  wissen, to know for a fact,  a scientific sense, and kennen to be acquainted with.  English to know is vague.  I guess we simply go by context.  This the sense of ordinary language.  I suspect one would have to expand the word know to be more precise.  But that probably will not happen.  All I know is that I have never had a sense of knowing my face, or body for that matter.  I know people who always look different to me - sometimes I do not recognize people I know.  Other people look pretty much the same to me.  Sub normal people always look the same as they have no nuanced looks.  For example a catatonic, particularly the full blown one's with waxy flexability and pale white skin, look the same all the time.  I once had the experience of viewing someone I really knew slip into a catatonic state.  To make things more interesting, I have people who claim they saw me somewhere and they do not like it when I tell them I was not wherever they thought I was - I handle this with a smile now.  At my age I seem to look more and more like others of my age group.  I played tennis on a regular basis with some friends who allegedly looked like me.  People did not confuse us when we were together.  Perhaps it is easiest to say I do not recognize my face or body - after all they are borrowed.  I will have to think more about your main question.  Your  " different several ways" might help - if you would... Stu

[Cal]

Cal, I am not sure what I mean either.  Perhaps this due is my problem with the word know.  For example, in German there are two words for the verb to  know,  wissen, to know for a fact,  a scientific sense, and kennen to be acquainted with.  English to know is vague.  I guess we simply go by context.  This the sense of ordinary language.  I suspect one would have to expand the word know to be more precise.  But that probably will not happen.  All I know is that I have never had a sense of knowing my face, or body for that matter.  I know people who always look different to me - sometimes I do not recognize people I know.  Other people look pretty much the same to me.  Sub normal people always look the same as they have no nuanced looks.  For example a catatonic, particularly the full blown one's with waxy flexability and pale white skin, look the same all the time.  I once had the experience of viewing someone I really knew slip into a catatonic state.  To make things more interesting, I have people who claim they saw me somewhere and they do not like it when I tell them I was not wherever they thought I was - I handle this with a smile now.  At my age I seem to look more and more like others of my age group.  I played tennis on a regular basis with some friends who allegedly looked like me.  People did not confuse us when we were together.  Perhaps it is easiest to say I do not recognize my face or body - after all they are borrowed.  I will have to think more about your main question.  Your  " different several ways" might help - if you would... Stu

Sure, the different ways I was talking about had to do with how you might identify.   

[stugandolf]

Cal,  Since I do WIFI at a public library and I just attempted to complete a post,  Jeffrey, and zoned out because of people noise and my agoraphobia not to mention whatever, I will attempt to answer the question of what I identify with.  I am a contemplative mystic  -  not that I am fully aware of the ramifications.  I have experienced the music of the spheres, all the time, about a year after joining the GRV - I think about 12 or so years ago.  It is my desire to become the music of the spheres.  Stu  PS I will ponder this more... And yes I continue to ponder Teressa of Avala and St John of the cross...

[RoanF]

This is interesting. I have read revelations a few times and have wondered what the 'seal of God' mentioned is:

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads." Revelations (9.4)

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads." Revelations (14.1-3)

"One significant description in the above verses is that those who are redeemed from the earth will have God's name written on their foreheads. This is a widespread custom of the brahmanas in India to write the name of God, such as Vishnu or Krishna, on their foreheads. This is tilok, which is usually put on with clay made from the banks of a holy river. We often see this in the middle of the forehead in the shape of a "V" which represents the name of God and that the body is a temple of God, or the three-lined markings of the Shaivites. The Vaishnava mark is made while reciting "Om keshavaya namaha," which means "Salutations to Lord Keshava," another name of Krishna." - http://www.yoga-philosophy.com/eng/kalki/kalki.htm

Maybe the V was a physiological change when the religion had authentic mystics which then became a ritualized symbol?

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you, Aron, for posting the interesting biblical references.  Your comments about parallel practices in Hinduism certainly suggest shared beliefs.

I found this link to a discussion on the seal of God very interesting from the standpoint of biblical references.

It does not seem clear what the seal of God is, which suggests it is a long lost reference.  It could be a mark upon the forehead, or it could be the sensation of the opening of the third eye, which is the 6th chakra.

[RoanF]

I agree, it could be either one and I had previously thought it was the 6th chakra too. I got excited because if the seal were a physiological change then contemplatives could easily identify each other.

[Jhanananda]

We are mystics here, so we would be inclined to take this as a reference to our direct experience of the sacred through deep meditation.

[Rodan]

Apologies for reviving a dead thread but this felt appropriate.

I have found my metabolism increasingly slowing down.  It's a bit annoying since now I can only really eat once a day or else I will find myself passing things over a period of many and many hours. If I drink a glass of water now I would be passing it slowly over a period of 15 hours.

[KriyaYogi]

The face phenomena I find so significant that this is actually one of the first examinations I make when looking at a new teacher.  I think we all know the lore around the depictions of the 'face of Christ' as being beatific, radiant and clear so at some level I think society realizes the face of the Master does change.
 
  What I have observed personally is in the highest Masters, even in old age, the face seems to be very symmetrical.  For example, I think I can use Ramakrishna as a citation here since most of us seem to agree he was highly skillful and had reached the goal of spirituality.  If you look at photos of him you can see the symmetry and clarity of his face and complexion.

-David

[Jhanananda]

Apologies for reviving a dead thread but this felt appropriate.

I have found my metabolism increasingly slowing down.  It's a bit annoying since now I can only really eat once a day or else I will find myself passing things over a period of many and many hours. If I drink a glass of water now I would be passing it slowly over a period of 15 hours.

Sorry, Rodan, for missing your comment here. While it seems reasonable to me that those who learn to meditate deeply are likely to have a slower metabolism; nonetheless, it has been my experience that my health got better, not worse. so you might want to look at external influences for your apparently excessively slowed down metabolism.

[Jhanananda]

The face phenomena I find so significant that this is actually one of the first examinations I make when looking at a new teacher.  I think we all know the lore around the depictions of the 'face of Christ' as being beatific, radiant and clear so at some level I think society realizes the face of the Master does change.
 
  What I have observed personally is in the highest Masters, even in old age, the face seems to be very symmetrical.  For example, I think I can use Ramakrishna as a citation here since most of us seem to agree he was highly skillful and had reached the goal of spirituality.  If you look at photos of him you can see the symmetry and clarity of his face and complexion.

-David

The danger in your hypothesis, David, is believing beautiful people are enlightened whereas, ugly people are not.  Enlightenment is available to all, and it is purely an interior experience.

[KriyaYogi]

I think I am just trying to say something similar to what the rest of you have experienced and described earlier in this thread...

  As far as what I mean I believe the emotions on the face and anxiety release resulting from the inner states can effect the face.  I've heard some dentists say that tongue position can effect the jaw structure and I have also heard that smiling or frowning too much can effect the wrinkling of the face.   Here is a citation about jaw structure and tongue position from a dental website.  But my thinking is along this line currently...



"Look Better – That’s right! Proper tongue positioning leads to a more attractive face with higher cheekbones and a stronger jawline because the muscles in your mouth are where they are supposed to be. People who hold their tongue correctly are also less likely to have crowded, crooked teeth."

https://www.ladydentistanchorage.com/tongue-positioning-what-it-is-and-how-it-helps/

Smile lines:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasolabial_fold#cite_note-2