Author Topic: How not to ruin a flowering jhana?  (Read 3299 times)

Michael

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How not to ruin a flowering jhana?
« on: March 28, 2021, 07:07:46 AM »
Hello, community,

As a new member to the board, I’d like to introduce myself, share my experiences, and see if I can find help with some meditation issues I’m dealing with. My name is Michael, and I’ve been meditating for about eight years now. The first few months of my meditative path were the most extraordinary, and since then I’ve been seeking to understand and return to what happened back then.

In short, eight years ago I found myself on an accidental retreat—a summer during which I was living alone, with a passive source of income, few social contacts, and a lot of silence. Towards the end of one of my daily walks, I found myself in a pleasant, peaceful state of mind. I said to myself, “this must be what meditation is about.” So I went online and sought out instructions on how to do it. After reading some simple instructions in Mindfulness in Plain English, I soon began to have experiences which I can only describe as jhana experiences, or at the very least, near-jhana experiences, depending on one’s standard. From the beginning I felt that I was leaving worldly thoughts and concerns behind and reuniting with a joy that had been waiting for me all along. I very quickly got into an enjoyable flow of continuous attention with the breath. On one occasion I had an experience of light raining down cool, calm joy. It was not quite a visual experience, yet the best way to describe it is if someone shined a flashlight at my forehead at a downward angle, and I could somehow see the light through my head. The joy was pure and smooth, but very mental.

Soon after, I began to have other absorption experiences which happened very quickly, possibly within ten minutes. These were not accompanied by a sensation of light and the joy of these experiences was more sudden, but still subtle. When I later read commentaries and suttas on the subject, I was stricken by the accuracy of the simile of the wanderer in the desert who feels joy at the sight of an oasis, and then happiness upon basking in its shade and water. Equally apt to me was the description of “gladness arising in the mind” upon the perception of the absence of the hindrances. A sudden relief, a breaking-away of suffering accompanied by cool, refreshing bliss, and an immediate and deep gratitude for the bliss, characterized these experiences.

Finally, the most significant jhana experience of my life (so far) happened when I resolved to simply hold on more tightly to the sensation of air around my nostrils. The joy and bliss of this experience were jarring and accompanied by bright, saturating light which began at my head and then seemed to pervade my body. The suttas’ description of “soaking and steeping” one’s body so that no part of it is not pervaded by bliss is perfectly accurate to this experience. The power of this experience distracted me, of course, and I was flung out of it, moved to tears and thanking a God I did not believe in. I knew that if that was not a “supernormal” state, nothing is.

So now, my question:

I find myself in a situation where too much wanting and anticipating are in the way of returning to these jhanas. I suspect that simple faith and some lifestyle changes (less work, more silence), are the solution, but the “faith” is the part I find difficult. If I were to simply have faith that the jhanas would unfold if I only let them, then they would unfold! Yet I simply cannot seem to kick this reflex I have of thinking to myself, “you’re finally about to do it again!” every time I get close. It chucks me out of the experience instantly. How to deal with this mental trip-wire I seem to have installed? It is very easy to say, “don’t do that,” but it’s almost automatic. Old neuroses and self-defeating beliefs about what kinds of things can happen to little ol’ me are also getting in the way, making it difficult to believe I really can do this. I’ve come here with the hope of finding a few rare humans who can help me through such strange, little-understood terrain.

Another, more minor, question is what one should do when one is able to sustain attention on a meditation object (in my case, the mind holding onto the breath) for long periods of time, but no piti or sukha arise. This happened to me on a recent home retreat. The experience was pleasant, but it’s like the match refused to ignite.

Thank you all for reading this very long and involved post!

--Michael

Jhanananda

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Re: How not to ruin a flowering jhana?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2021, 12:07:47 PM »
Welcome Michael, and thank you so much for posting your meditation experience here.  Clearly you had a classic experience of depth in meditation.  It looks like you arrived at the first jhana for sure.

The solution to overcoming your habitual thoughts that interfere with greater depth for you is simply to meditate consistently on a daily basis.  I found meditating first thing in the morning and last thing at night helped me to gain consistent depth in meditation for decades.  So, give it a try. 

The second stage of depth in meditation (2nd jhana) is characterized by the stilling of the mind, and regular meditation practice is a sure path to it. Please keep up your fruitful practice and do keep us abreast of it, and feel free to ask questions.  Expect others here to respond as they check in.
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Alexander

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Re: How not to ruin a flowering jhana?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2021, 02:54:35 PM »
Hello Mike and welcome.

You have certainly come to the right place if you are interested in these topics. I myself have been meditating for about 15 years, and am also a scholar of mysticism (if you are interested in these topics). I have also been more or less a student of Jeff for much of that time.

I experienced very similar joyful experiences when meditating - but, like you, I have not found a way to recreate them or get them to maintain themselves consistently. So, you should know we are in the same boat there.

I am able to still the mind readily, and that is usually my state for much of the day; though these days I don't find that extraordinary in itself.

What I have been experimenting with lately has been the cultivation of vibrations, which it seems I can induce more or less reliably. (I like the "I do X; Y happens" model...) For example by stilling the mind, keeping the body still, and focusing attention on the hands/feet, I can feel a vibrational effect in my hands and feet. Sometimes I may also feel this in the heart or forehead as well.

I have read other people experience a "kundalini" episode where the vibrations emerge at the base of the spine and rise up leading to a profound experience. But, I have not encountered that myself.

About two years ago I was cultivating vibrations (I had to stop due to illness and work stress) and, combined with reading OOBE books and keeping a dream log, I did have a couple interesting experiences. My dream recall was good, I had a few "false awakenings," and one potential "proto-OOBE" where I was blind, so it seems it is an area that demands more investigation.

I practice the long sits Jeff counsels, but on workdays I only have time in the afternoons. So, they will be potential 2h+ sits which are quite laborious. They also go over time as I always fall asleep for the first 30 minutes (tired from the work day).

For me they have been "dry" or "arid" - as the mystic writers would describe them - which you can imagine is frustrating for someone committed to this quest. But, that has been my experience with the ecstasies; that hard work may also require grace or prior merit. But, we must "keep fighting the good fight."  :)

Om Namah Shivaya
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"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Jhanananda

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Re: How not to ruin a flowering jhana?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2021, 02:55:43 PM »
None of us get the rocket ship ride every time we meditate.  We just have to show up regularly to catch that ride from time to time.
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Naman

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Re: How not to ruin a flowering jhana?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2021, 10:06:26 AM »

Another, more minor, question is what one should do when one is able to sustain attention on a meditation object (in my case, the mind holding onto the breath) for long periods of time, but no piti or sukha arise. This happened to me on a recent home retreat. The experience was pleasant, but it’s like the match refused to ignite.

Thank you all for reading this very long and involved post!

--Michael

Hi,
I would like to say something from my own experience of 18years, i felt that the deeper states which used to bring on lots of joy and bliss those same states now doesnt "excite" my mind the same way. Infact in Indian spirituality they say that with experience the bliss becomes series, and turns into deep stilness. so it may not be like u r  not progressing.

Alternatively it is also possible that whenver u start u suddenly drop into states beyond our causal reach due to increased intial motivation but as we continue the effort, we drop back to the state where we actually have access and we have to work up again to make those earlier higher states to become natural to us.


Jhanananda

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Re: How not to ruin a flowering jhana?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2021, 11:26:33 AM »
Hello, Naman, and thank you for contributing to the dialog here.  Perhaps the biggest issue here is the expectation that every time we meditate we are going to get a payoff for a deep state, and the states that we experience which at first are dramatic become daily, and viewed as mundane. So, perhaps we need to accept that daily practice is essential for cultivating deep states, and accept that every day is not going to produce the same results, but we need to keep "showing up" in a daily practice to reap the reward of the occasional blissful state, and to keep it fresh by being thankful for what bit of bliss we do find.

Also, while a still mind at first can be dramatic, it is not as dramatic as deeper states, but it is actually the doorway to deeper states, so if we want the deeper states, then we have to become skilled at stilling the mind through daily practice, and through lifestyle change as reflected in the Noble Eightfold Path.
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Alexander

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Re: How not to ruin a flowering jhana?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2021, 12:47:56 PM »
Very good and interesting thoughts / counsel Jeff. And good to hear from you again Naman! :) I hope you are faring well in India.
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"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Naman

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Re: How not to ruin a flowering jhana?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2021, 04:48:12 AM »
Thankyou Jeff I absolutely agree, its not a straight path with linear progress its more like a path having linear slope of progress but with local ups and downs given we show up everyday and do our best. I hope you are doing well physically.

Its good to be back Alex. Few months back i spiralled down into a nervous system deterioration myself thankfully i m almost out of it now and getting back up with meditation. Something very pleasent happenend though, stilling of mind is something that is now coming to me at my will anytime i wish! Life has been big struggle, meditation is my only oasis :) I hope you are doing well and your progress is going great/

Jhanananda

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Re: How not to ruin a flowering jhana?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2021, 03:54:18 PM »
It is good, Naman, to read you are returning to a contemplative life.  I am sure you will find an enriched life.
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