Progress as a beginner

[Rodan]

Something I've noticed from my 2 hour anapanasati session today, it drastically diverges in absorption from my visual based meditation where I concentrate on a symbol. I can get into far deeper states with a symbol than I can with the breath. Is this normal?

[Jhanananda]

Tonights session went quite well during my 2 hour anapanasati session.

This is a very good practice. You may find sitting 1-2 hours 3 times a day can be very fruitful.  I found the most important thing is to just keep up a steady daily practice regimen of sitting in meditation for more than 20 minute intervals, and preferably 1-2 hours, and beginning and ending every day with meditation. I found this pattern makes meditation the central feature of one's life, and will bear fruit.

As usual I lose steam approximately an hour into my session but I was able to crawl back a few times and regain features of the first jhana.

The object of steady contemplative practice is just to keep returning to the object of your meditation no matter how many times your mind wanders, and to recognize the charisms (nimitta) and switch to them as the object of meditation. So, you are doing well.

I didn't experience the strong euphoria as I would get in some sessions but I have a feeling I generated the nimitta.

One of the things to keep in mind in a fruitful contemplative practice is to understand you are not going to get the rocket ship ride every time.  You just need to show up every day so that you are ready when the rocket ship ride arrives.

I'd sometimes see blackish/purpleish clouds with very pale and grey white clouds seeping through; as far as I'm aware, I believe the nimitta sometimes comes about as a diffuse white light. Would a greyish white cloud count? I've experienced the white nimitta dot once in awhile in and out of my sits, but they're always incredibly tiny and pulsate in and out of existence. I had a more strongly persistent white shiny dot manifest itself this morning after I woke up, it was quite cool.

Another thing to keep in mind is the charisms are abstract, not necessarily concrete forms (rupa).  So, it is best to just attend to the general luminance of the field of view, and not pay attention to the shadows, or shapes.

After my sit, I felt as if my mind was nearly 'stilled.' Not totally mind you, there were thoughts here and there but I felt like I wasn't thinking at all, none of the usual chatter. My body also felt slightly squishy and soft in some parts such as my head and mouth again. I hope to carry this feeling of tranquility and charism (I think it's a charism?) into my sleep; if not I'll try meditating again for 30 minutes to regenerate the samadhi while laying down.

Regular practice will result in longer periods of stillness of mind, and will result in the arising of the charisms.

The more intense yogic stretches have been a great help Jhanananda! Thank you for the suggestion!

You are welcome.  I am only too glad to be of help to contemplatives seeking fruitful attainment until the day I die.

Another goal of mine is to take my meditation sits into the dream realm as well. Should I ever find myself strapped for time in real life, I figure I can use my dream time as an auxiliary session for contemplation.

I found taking my contemplative life into the dream world very fruitful, but not as a time saving feature, but a way to saturate my consciousness 24/7 in the contemplative life can result in much greater fruit. And, by beginning and ending every day in meditation, then meditation seeps into the dream-time much easier.

I' almost meditated in a dream once (not lucidly). I was attempting to sit down and I became accosted by a homeless man who would pelt garbage at me, so I would move away as I'm hesitant to engage in confrontation when I can just leave. He kept following me and interrupted me when I would sit with more garbage before I could start concentrating. The dream ended shortly afterwards. I'm prone to dream interpretation and I feel like the dream was telling me I'm prone to distractions and give way to them too easily.

While your interpretation of this dream is useful; nonetheless, there are many features of the dreamscape of a contemplative that change as we become lucid, such as being chased of ganged up upon.  This I find is due to increasing lucidity. What happens is when people dream they enter the lower astral plane and cooperate in a collective dreamscape, and when they recognize someone among them who is becoming lucid they become frightened and will attack the lucid dreamer.  So, the solution is to move up and toward the light, while avoiding the shadow.

Great session tonight, one of my best I think. After the first hour I usually lose steam but I was able to regain a sense of tranquility and contentedness instead of the purple cloud visuals. Normally it's tough for me to hit the first jhana like that after the first hour but I managed to replicate it a couple of times. However, I would say my experience of the first jhana is not 'hard' or deep.

Originally I used to just meditate until my mind stilled and I felt some of the charisms, because I had very poor guidance from meditation teachers.  I didn't really begin to experience great depth in meditation until I just sat longer, and found that depth in meditation often came in waves, and if I sat through the first wave, I would often have a second wave, which was often a rocket ship ride.

The other thing is, I did not experience a very strong euphoria as I used to, but I felt 'happy' nonetheless. It even lead to a spontaneous smile on my face for most of the second half. I felt some nice vibrations all over my skin as well. The training in tranquility that i've been doing and learning from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv48zvvjEhs has paid off, as well as the bodily tranquility I've gained through yoga stretches.

Also, I think I've figured out why my mouth and tongue feel tingly or 'squishy' as if they were about to melt. I think parts of my face are falling asleep. I'm not really alarmed by this as I try to practice self-hypnosis induction methods every day to induce relaxation.

These are common charisms: a spontaneous smile on your face, happiness, and joy in the heart, bodily tranquility, and various "tingly" sensations in the mouth, face and/or body.  I found just attending to those various charisms during meditation, and afterwards leads to greater depth during meditation.

Something I've noticed from my 2 hour anapanasati session today, it drastically diverges in absorption from my visual based meditation where I concentrate on a symbol. I can get into far deeper states with a symbol than I can with the breath. Is this normal?

while visual meditation objects are not a feature of the Pali canon, and instead most of the practices are body oriented, but do what works for greater depth.

[Rodan]

This is a very good practice. You may find sitting 1-2 hours 3 times a day can be very fruitful.  I found the most important thing is to just keep up a steady daily practice regimen of sitting in meditation for more than 20 minute intervals, and preferably 1-2 hours, and beginning and ending every day with meditation. I found this pattern makes meditation the central feature of one's life, and will bear fruit.

The object of steady contemplative practice is just to keep returning to the object of your meditation no matter how many times your mind wanders, and to recognize the charisms (nimitta) and switch to them as the object of meditation. So, you are doing well.

One of the things to keep in mind in a fruitful contemplative practice is to understand you are not going to get the rocket ship ride every time.  You just need to show up every day so that you are ready when the rocket ship ride arrives.

Another thing to keep in mind is the charisms are abstract, not necessarily concrete forms (rupa).  So, it is best to just attend to the general luminance of the field of view, and not pay attention to the shadows, or shapes.

Regular practice will result in longer periods of stillness of mind, and will result in the arising of the charisms.

I will ruminate on this!

While your interpretation of this dream is useful; nonetheless, there are many features of the dreamscape of a contemplative that change as we become lucid, such as being chased of ganged up upon.  This I find is due to increasing lucidity. What happens is when people dream they enter the lower astral plane and cooperate in a collective dreamscape, and when they recognize someone among them who is becoming lucid they become frightened and will attack the lucid dreamer.  So, the solution is to move up and toward the light, while avoiding the shadow.

It's interesting that you say this. I've found that with the greater awareness that I have, the more my dreams tend to take on a more realistic operating routine, as if it's trying to mimic my real life. My dreams used to be filled with objects and scenarios from video-games or films. Now these types of dreams are becoming more rare. Often, I'll even find that if I end up having a ridiculous dream, like I'm a soldier trampling through a city with armaments, parts of my environment will phase into the dream itself. I found myself in one particular dream where I was running from a pack of zombies, then suddenly, my bed phased in and I found myself laying on it while the rest of the dream continued around myself and my bed. In other dreams, I'll find myself suddenly having my fridge and kitchen phased into the dreamscape, as if my astral body had been wandering around the home as I dreamed.

I actually have a couple of questions. I don't know if I can include it in this thread or If I should make one in an OOBE thread. I will make another thread on my OOBE's just in case.

Originally I used to just meditate until my mind stilled and I felt some of the charisms, because I had very poor guidance from meditation teachers.  I didn't really begin to experience great depth in meditation until I just sat longer, and found that depth in meditation often came in waves, and if I sat through the first wave, I would often have a second wave, which was often a rocket ship ride.

These are common charisms: a spontaneous smile on your face, happiness, and joy in the heart, bodily tranquility, and various "tingly" sensations in the mouth, face and/or body.  I found just attending to those various charisms during meditation, and afterwards leads to greater depth during meditation.

Yes, the oscillatory nature of these charisms are beginning to become clear to me. Though oscillatory, they're gradually increasing in frequency. I hope to build up to longer sits. My goal in a month or two is to incorporate one day a week where I do nothing but meditate for 10 hours straight (maybe a 5 minute stretching break per hour).

[Jhanananda]

Yes, the oscillatory nature of these charisms are beginning to become clear to me. Though oscillatory, they're gradually increasing in frequency. I hope to build up to longer sits. My goal in a month or two is to incorporate one day a week where I do nothing but meditate for 10 hours straight (maybe a 5 minute stretching break per hour).

This sounds like a good plan for deepening your contemplative life.  You could call it a weekly retreat, and I find evidence for this practice in the various religions which has since become Friday noon for Muslim, Friday night sunset to Saturday at sunset for Jews, and Sundays for Christians.  And, we find similar weekly to monthly ritual behavior in other religions, such as the Indic communities.

[Rodan]

I think I'm beginning to understand why I have so much trouble with anapanasati. My mind starts to get distracted in the brief space between inhalations and exhalations. When I use a visual object such as a symbol, My mind is constantly refreshing the image and distractions have a harder time appearing and reinforcing themselves.

I've begun intensifying a practice I used to do outside of my sits but got too lazy with in the last few months. I've stopped engaging in or satisfying particular tics or bodily reflexes such as scratching my head or stroking my beard. I'm also going back to completely ignoring sensations of itchiness no matter how painful they are to ignore. It's sort of a part of my vipassana routine to remain mindful of what I'm doing. It's helping to keep me grounded mentally.

[Jhanananda]

I think I'm beginning to understand why I have so much trouble with anapanasati. My mind starts to get distracted in the brief space between inhalations and exhalations. When I use a visual object such as a symbol, My mind is constantly refreshing the image and distractions have a harder time appearing and reinforcing themselves.

It is those brief spaces in between breaths that is our oportunity to experience a still mind. The problem with many meditation techniques is they are too cognitive, and never allow for the mind to become still.  Also, a key feature of deep meditation is learning to relax deeply.  Since most people who develop depth in meditation do so through observing the breath, and we tend to report the practice being very calming, so it really is a useful practice for those who are interested in depth in meditation.

I've begun intensifying a practice I used to do outside of my sits but got too lazy with in the last few months. I've stopped engaging in or satisfying particular tics or bodily reflexes such as scratching my head or stroking my beard. I'm also going back to completely ignoring sensations of itchiness no matter how painful they are to ignore. It's sort of a part of my vipassana routine to remain mindful of what I'm doing. It's helping to keep me grounded mentally.

It sounds like you are making progress.  I can only do whatever I can to inspire contemplatives to seek depth in meditation so that they find the superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala).

[Rodan]

It is those brief spaces in between breaths that is our oportunity to experience a still mind. The problem with many meditation techniques is they are too cognitive, and never allow for the mind to become still.  Also, a key feature of deep meditation is learning to relax deeply.  Since most people who develop depth in meditation do so through observing the breath, and we tend to report the practice being very calming, so it really is a useful practice for those who are interested in depth in meditation.

Yes, that's why though anapanasati is tough for me, I'm cycling it with the visual symbol meditation. I see it as a work out and I wish to discipline my mind, even if I have to briefly sacrifice depth. I think it will be worth it.

I've found a kind of analogue to the spaces. While doing noting on my errands outside; I noticed anytime I found a lul l in sensations/experiences to note caused me further distractions much in the same way the spaces in anapanasati did. I'll need to learn to maintain my tranquility during spaces of inactivity in my life.

Do you have a mindfulness awareness practice which might be helpful Jhanananda? I was recommended to note and I find it useful.

It sounds like you are making progress.  I can only do whatever I can to inspire contemplatives to seek depth in meditation so that they find the superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala).

Thank you for your encouragement!

[Jhanananda]

Do you have a mindfulness awareness practice which might be helpful Jhanananda? I was recommended to note and I find it useful.

What the community here has found is just observing the breath without any noting, just becomes very relaxing, calming, comforting, and compeling.  So, just sit with it, and allow it to bloom in its own time, and keep us infromed of your progress.

[Rodan]

So basically taking our sit to our general life? But I'm curious, what should one do if they're performing a task or working or studying?  I feel like observing the breath would be difficult.

[Rodan]

Gave observation of the breath a try for most of the day. Not bad. It did help me to still my mind; interestingly enough it carried over into my anapanasati session. Normally my anapanasati sessions are not as deep as my symbolic visual meditations, but this time I got pretty close. The piti was mostly localized around my legs, it felt like a really lovely and pleasant sensation took over my legs and the pleasure was almost numbing and I felt quite tranquil for most of my sit until the last 30 min.

However, I have this nagging worry at the back of my head that I'm not adequately aware or mindful. I was able to keep my breath in mind while doing things vaguely, I couldn't obviously tend to it with full concentration. But I would often lose sight of it if I were doing anything beyond something as simple as walking or staring off into space.

[Jhanananda]

However, I have this nagging worry at the back of my head that I'm not adequately aware or mindful. I was able to keep my breath in mind while doing things vaguely, I couldn't obviously tend to it with full concentration. But I would often lose sight of it if I were doing anything beyond something as simple as walking or staring off into space.

You may find this web page of interest to study: The Contemplative Practices (Magga) of Ecstatic Buddhism

So basically taking our sit to our general life? But I'm curious, what should one do if they're performing a task or working or studying?  I feel like observing the breath would be difficult.

I have used the metaphor that the mind is like a pocket calculator, we just have to learn to find the off switch and use it, and the practice of medititon is learning to use the off switch. So, when you eed to engage your mind in study or work, then we use our mind for what it is good for, then when we don't need the mind we turn it off by keeping it still.

[Rodan]

However, I have this nagging worry at the back of my head that I'm not adequately aware or mindful. I was able to keep my breath in mind while doing things vaguely, I couldn't obviously tend to it with full concentration. But I would often lose sight of it if I were doing anything beyond something as simple as walking or staring off into space.

You may find this web page of interest to study: The Contemplative Practices (Magga) of Ecstatic Buddhism

So basically taking our sit to our general life? But I'm curious, what should one do if they're performing a task or working or studying?  I feel like observing the breath would be difficult.

I have used the metaphor that the mind is like a pocket calculator, we just have to learn to find the off switch and use it, and the practice of medititon is learning to use the off switch. So, when you eed to engage your mind in study or work, then we use our mind for what it is good for, then when we don't need the mind we turn it off by keeping it still.

Thank you. I've begun reading that page awhile back, it's one of the pages that encouraged me to join this forum and take part in the discussions.

I think I understand what you mean with your analogy. the tranquility it brings over time with the stillness is interesting. So this saturday, I ended up being quite lazy with my awareness and I let my senses and mind take me wherever. I ended up procrastinating and being lazy in general. I found my monkey mind taking over and getting far more irritable than usual. My meditation session at night became worse as well; there's a silver lining though, I managed to gain some insight into how a lot of the hindrances and jhanic factors manifest and interplay. For 2/3rd of my session I felt quite annoyed and even a little sad as some disappointment I had encountered earlier in the day began to percolate from my mind. So I endeavored to keep concentrating on my breath. Closer towards the end of my session my vexation and sadness dissipated and I felt quite calm. I was unable to reach the first jhana this time but I got quite close. Had I begun my session with a more still mind I would have hit jhana a lot sooner most likely. However, now I'm beginning to see how effective, patience and simple determination towards suppression of the hindrances can help. It was interesting to watch the hindrances almost disappear in real time.

[Rodan]

My absorption wasn't so great tonight because I was adjusting myself regularly to apply a more strict posture similar to what I've seen in asana's, as well as fixating my gaze between my eyebrows to induce a state of pratyahara (withdrawal of the senses). It wasn't all for nought though, towards the end of the session something interesting happened; while I could not generate piti I was generally somewhat tranquil in the last 20 minutes and then suddenly the left side of the my head, from the temple down to my cheeks suddenly went numb....I've had these sensations before, usually while in bed before a hard jhana hits me. I moved to adjust my posture and it disappeared so it could not have been a physiological issue, it seemed to have been tied to my meditation maybe?

I'm getting better at anapanasati, i'm not forcing the breath as much (but still am). I still find myself manually controlling my breathing instead of observing it during my awareness exercise most of the time and during the sit.

[Jhanananda]

Thank you. I've begun reading that page awhile back, it's one of the pages that encouraged me to join this forum and take part in the discussions.

I think I understand what you mean with your analogy. the tranquility it brings over time with the stillness is interesting. So this saturday, I ended up being quite lazy with my awareness and I let my senses and mind take me wherever. I ended up procrastinating and being lazy in general. I found my monkey mind taking over and getting far more irritable than usual. My meditation session at night became worse as well; there's a silver lining though, I managed to gain some insight into how a lot of the hindrances and jhanic factors manifest and interplay. For 2/3rd of my session I felt quite annoyed and even a little sad as some disappointment I had encountered earlier in the day began to percolate from my mind. So I endeavored to keep concentrating on my breath. Closer towards the end of my session my vexation and sadness dissipated and I felt quite calm. I was unable to reach the first jhana this time but I got quite close. Had I begun my session with a more still mind I would have hit jhana a lot sooner most likely. However, now I'm beginning to see how effective, patience and simple determination towards suppression of the hindrances can help. It was interesting to watch the hindrances almost disappear in real time.

This demonstrates the necessary practice of self-awareness.  A fruitful contemplative live is about being self-aware, and returning over and over again to stillness through attending to an object of meditation that is calming, and attending to the breath appears to be one of the most successful meditation practices. It is worth pointing out that a fruitful contemplative life is a lifestyle, and it is not something that happens in the short term, but develops like the slow blooming of a flower in the spring.

[Jhanananda]

My absorption wasn't so great tonight because I was adjusting myself regularly to apply a more strict posture similar to what I've seen in asana's, as well as fixating my gaze between my eyebrows to induce a state of pratyahara (withdrawal of the senses). It wasn't all for nought though, towards the end of the session something interesting happened; while I could not generate piti I was generally somewhat tranquil in the last 20 minutes and then suddenly the left side of the my head, from the temple down to my cheeks suddenly went numb....I've had these sensations before, usually while in bed before a hard jhana hits me. I moved to adjust my posture and it disappeared so it could not have been a physiological issue, it seemed to have been tied to my meditation maybe?

One should keep in mind that relaation is a critical skill to develop, so obsessing over the posture, and strictly pushing oneself into a rigid postre does not succeed in depth.  So, just find a posture that you find relaxed, and let go while attending to your breath.

I'm getting better at anapanasati, i'm not forcing the breath as much (but still am). I still find myself manually controlling my breathing instead of observing it during my awareness exercise most of the time and during the sit.

Yes, we just need to relax into observing the breath and not making it be anything, just let the breath and the body be whatever they are going to be.