Author Topic: Ways to save money on solo retreat  (Read 3461 times)

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: Ways to save money on solo retreat
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2023, 01:42:19 PM »
Who is the most interesting homeless person you met over the years? (Other than yourself ;))

Being homeless for 20 years I have met a wide range of interesting people, most of whom were not contemplatives, so not much community, and mostly people I wouldn't want to encounter in a dark corner late at night.  Serving breakfast to the homeless population in Prescott for a number of years I got to know many of them quite closely, and most of them would have been kind to me.

Quite a high percentage of the homeless population suffers from one or more addictions, mostly they self medicate severe PTSD, due to profound hopelessness. The typical situation for a homeless person is they were laborers who partied too hard one night and got a DUI and served 3 months in jail, they get out and everything that they owned was thrown away by the landlord.  If they were married, then their wife either left or had a new husband. If they had kids then DPS will garnish 100% of any paycheck they work hard for, so there is no point in working. So, they panhandle enough to get drunk enough to sleep under a bush for the night, and maybe freeze to death before the Salvation Army serves them breakfast. It is the cruelty of the world that they are the victims of and have succumbed to that cruelty.

Among the homeless population is also people who are hiding from some crime. About 10% of the homeless population are pedophiles who served a 5 year sentence and can no longer get gainful employment. I recall one young man had a girlfriend in high school, who was younger than he was, and they were having sex, and the girl's mother had him convicted of pedophilia when he turned 18, and he served 5 years in prison, when I got out, there was no work for him, no family to help him. The odd thing is he had lived in Prescott, and the mother of his high school girlfriend worked at the Salvation Army, so he saw her every morning for breakfast as Sally's. He had nothing to look forward to. It get weirder, The mother had grown up in the Salvation Army, because here parents worked for the Salvation Army serving the poor, and she had been abducted by a homeless man and gotten pregnant by him, and eventually recovered and brought back to her parents, and the girl this guy dated in high school was the product of that abduction. These are the kinds of stories that these homeless people come from.

Among the homeless population are a very small number of serial murderers who are on the lamb.  They murder someone vulnerable, and move on to the next town to live in the homeless population.  In Prescott I got to know 2 men who I have a lot of reasons to believe are serial murders, but without evidence there is nothing any of us can do. Upon my recent return to Prescott I found a homeless woman missing who had been in my opinion too friendly with one of these possibly sociopathic serial murders. I tried to warn her, but I could never find her alone without him right there. I reported her missing to the police along with my suspicion, and the man in question has not been seen for a few weeks, so I think he is on the lamb, and with no body, but a missing person report, he is free to disappear until her body is found. So, I have a number of suspected serial murders who I am sure would kill me if they ever found me alone in a hidden place.

However, I did meet a few interesting people who didn't seem to be career criminals. One such person was a native American man whom I met in Bolinas, CA. He was interested in hunting and foraging, so we had many conversations with our shared interest. He at one time had lived in San Francisco where he would kill sea gulls and sell them by the garbage bag full to local Asian restaurants where they would serve them as chicken on their daily menu.

More recently I met a guy who was a devotee of some Indian guru. He had worked as a EMT in the San Francisco bay area in the 70s.  He was about my age. He traveled around the world living in dharma centers associated with this guru. He was from Phoenix and I met him in Prescott. He had some money that came to him monthly. He had bought a remote parcel of land and had built a refuge for himself. He is convinced that civilization will collapse any day now, and he has built his refuge to hide from the chaos. I would say he is the most interesting, and least criminal of the homeless people I have met.

I recall another interesting person I met in Bolinas, CA, who had built a boat using a framework of conduit with nylon mesh stretched over it, then he painted may layers of latex over the mesh to make it waterproof.  His plan was to sail it up and down the California coast. The last time I saw him he had finished the boat and had headed out to sea.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2023, 01:54:42 PM by Jhanananda »
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: Ways to save money on solo retreat
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2023, 02:07:38 PM »
I just recalled another very interesting character. I can't recall his name but he arrived in Prescott straight out of prison.  He was raised by a single mom, and a neighbor happened to be a martial artist and harrier, a person who domesticates hawks. So, this guy grew up studying martial arts, and weight training, and domesticating hawks. From speaking with him every day at the local public park he really did know about hawks, and he had photos of his hawks on his phone, and he was a really big, muscular guy, but very sweet and gentle to. From what I gathered he had been married and had kids, and had gotten into a fight at a bar, and with this guy's size and strength, my guess is he probably killed a drunk who had harassed him, and had to serve time for the bar fight that went bad.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

KriyaYogi

  • vetted member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 213
Re: Ways to save money on solo retreat
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2023, 08:23:08 PM »
>>>
 Jeff: one has to keep in mind that the casinos have their machines rigged in their favor, so making a career out of gambling will only result in poverty.
>>>
   Probably true, even if by some miracle I was able to generate enough magic to consistently win it's probably not mentally conducive to a meditative mind to try.   I have been thinking about getting a job this Christmas working for UPS doing Holiday Delivery services.  I know the pay is good and they hire very rapidly to meet the holiday rush, and that there is job advancement potential after the Holidays.

-David
« Last Edit: March 31, 2023, 08:28:20 PM by KriyaYogi »

Alexander

  • (Shivaswara)
  • vetted member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1122
Re: Ways to save money on solo retreat
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2023, 08:27:58 AM »
Being homeless for 20 years I have met a wide range of interesting people, most of whom were not contemplatives, so not much community, and mostly people I wouldn't want to encounter in a dark corner late at night.  Serving breakfast to the homeless population in Prescott for a number of years I got to know many of them quite closely, and most of them would have been kind to me.

Quite a high percentage of the homeless population suffers from one or more addictions, mostly they self medicate severe PTSD, due to profound hopelessness. The typical situation for a homeless person is they were laborers who partied too hard one night and got a DUI and served 3 months in jail, they get out and everything that they owned was thrown away by the landlord.  If they were married, then their wife either left or had a new husband. If they had kids then DPS will garnish 100% of any paycheck they work hard for, so there is no point in working. So, they panhandle enough to get drunk enough to sleep under a bush for the night, and maybe freeze to death before the Salvation Army serves them breakfast. It is the cruelty of the world that they are the victims of and have succumbed to that cruelty.

Among the homeless population is also people who are hiding from some crime. About 10% of the homeless population are pedophiles who served a 5 year sentence and can no longer get gainful employment. I recall one young man had a girlfriend in high school, who was younger than he was, and they were having sex, and the girl's mother had him convicted of pedophilia when he turned 18, and he served 5 years in prison, when I got out, there was no work for him, no family to help him. The odd thing is he had lived in Prescott, and the mother of his high school girlfriend worked at the Salvation Army, so he saw her every morning for breakfast as Sally's. He had nothing to look forward to. It get weirder, The mother had grown up in the Salvation Army, because here parents worked for the Salvation Army serving the poor, and she had been abducted by a homeless man and gotten pregnant by him, and eventually recovered and brought back to her parents, and the girl this guy dated in high school was the product of that abduction. These are the kinds of stories that these homeless people come from.

Among the homeless population are a very small number of serial murderers who are on the lamb.  They murder someone vulnerable, and move on to the next town to live in the homeless population.  In Prescott I got to know 2 men who I have a lot of reasons to believe are serial murders, but without evidence there is nothing any of us can do. Upon my recent return to Prescott I found a homeless woman missing who had been in my opinion too friendly with one of these possibly sociopathic serial murders. I tried to warn her, but I could never find her alone without him right there. I reported her missing to the police along with my suspicion, and the man in question has not been seen for a few weeks, so I think he is on the lamb, and with no body, but a missing person report, he is free to disappear until her body is found. So, I have a number of suspected serial murders who I am sure would kill me if they ever found me alone in a hidden place.

However, I did meet a few interesting people who didn't seem to be career criminals. One such person was a native American man whom I met in Bolinas, CA. He was interested in hunting and foraging, so we had many conversations with our shared interest. He at one time had lived in San Francisco where he would kill sea gulls and sell them by the garbage bag full to local Asian restaurants where they would serve them as chicken on their daily menu.

More recently I met a guy who was a devotee of some Indian guru. He had worked as a EMT in the San Francisco bay area in the 70s.  He was about my age. He traveled around the world living in dharma centers associated with this guru. He was from Phoenix and I met him in Prescott. He had some money that came to him monthly. He had bought a remote parcel of land and had built a refuge for himself. He is convinced that civilization will collapse any day now, and he has built his refuge to hide from the chaos. I would say he is the most interesting, and least criminal of the homeless people I have met.

I recall another interesting person I met in Bolinas, CA, who had built a boat using a framework of conduit with nylon mesh stretched over it, then he painted may layers of latex over the mesh to make it waterproof.  His plan was to sail it up and down the California coast. The last time I saw him he had finished the boat and had headed out to sea.
I just recalled another very interesting character. I can't recall his name but he arrived in Prescott straight out of prison.  He was raised by a single mom, and a neighbor happened to be a martial artist and harrier, a person who domesticates hawks. So, this guy grew up studying martial arts, and weight training, and domesticating hawks. From speaking with him every day at the local public park he really did know about hawks, and he had photos of his hawks on his phone, and he was a really big, muscular guy, but very sweet and gentle to. From what I gathered he had been married and had kids, and had gotten into a fight at a bar, and with this guy's size and strength, my guess is he probably killed a drunk who had harassed him, and had to serve time for the bar fight that went bad.

The self-medication is a recurring theme. It is a tragedy the laypeople are so callous because of this (homeless drug addiction). It’s very difficult to be homeless. Poor hygiene; extreme hot and cold; few purchases; no emotional support from friends or family. The bottle is the only relief from it.
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: Ways to save money on solo retreat
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2023, 02:34:00 PM »
The self-medication is a recurring theme. It is a tragedy the laypeople are so callous because of this (homeless drug addiction). It’s very difficult to be homeless. Poor hygiene; extreme hot and cold; few purchases; no emotional support from friends or family. The bottle is the only relief from it.

Sad, but true alcoholism and drug addiction are the only available solutions in a culture that ignores the value of the interior contemplative life.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Tad

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 327
Re: Ways to save money on solo retreat
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2023, 04:46:56 AM »
Jhananda,

You have a lot of interesting stories. It is sad that many homeless these days suffer from addictions to intoxicants. They only end up causing more pain in the long run. I often think about it. I do not know what solution would be to this situation. I found a lot of teachings in Pali praising homelessness and seclusion. It seems to me that having almost no possessions would be very conducive to spiritual growth. But cities are probably just terrible for homeless people. If they could live somewhere in the nature and had little cabins or huts, it should be so much better.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: Ways to save money on solo retreat
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2023, 02:59:46 PM »
Jhananda,

You have a lot of interesting stories. It is sad that many homeless these days suffer from addictions to intoxicants. They only end up causing more pain in the long run. I often think about it. I do not know what solution would be to this situation. I found a lot of teachings in Pali praising homelessness and seclusion. It seems to me that having almost no possessions would be very conducive to spiritual growth. But cities are probably just terrible for homeless people. If they could live somewhere in the nature and had little cabins or huts, it should be so much better.

Jhananda, I keep trying to make civilization work while Im stuck in it, but there is too much suffering. I need to find a way to get away from it to at least where Im not as entangled as currently. I think the last time when I was starting to feel some inner goodness was when I had COVID and just spent two weeks at home meditating in bed, going to a forest, and just barely doing anything. The mind was able to slow down and it felt so good. But as soon as I got back to work and daily struggle, the goodness ended pretty quickly. I think someone with strong samadhi would be able to take the stress of fast civilized life better. However, for someone that is already in some sort of mental pain, civilization is just too much.

The most difficult journey for the dedicated contemplative is negotiating civilization, which explains why most mystics disappear into the wilderness and are never heard from again.  Most likely they become hunter-gatherers. About 20 years ago I realized this and studied foraging, fishing and hunting. One thing that one can do is learn what species of animals are invasive species, and get familiar with Game and Fish, and Fish and Wildlife, and work with them to remove invasive species and live off of them.

If one were to take a university degree to facilitate living in remote areas to be a dedicated contemplative, then I would recommend an interdisciplinary degree in wildlife biology, archaeology and paleontology. People with these degrees are often employed by the government to monitor federally funded construction projects, and/or conduct a survey for a future such project.  With all three disciplines one could work as often as one wanted to, while being paid quite well.  This is what I found as an archaeologist until my health went down the tubes.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Tad

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 327
Re: Ways to save money on solo retreat
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2023, 03:54:19 AM »
Jhananda,
What do you think about karmic consequences of hunting? Indian religions seem to be very strick about it. Clearly, hunting for survival is not comparable to hunting for recreation, but it is still supposed to be something to be avoided as it does not support compassionate mindstates well. Sometimes I think climatic zones very much influenced spiritual traditions. For example, it would have been pretty much impossible for someone to survive in cold climates without animal food back in the day.

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: Ways to save money on solo retreat
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2023, 01:23:34 PM »
Jhananda,
What do you think about karmic consequences of hunting? Indian religions seem to be very strick about it. Clearly, hunting for survival is not comparable to hunting for recreation, but it is still supposed to be something to be avoided as it does not support compassionate mindstates well. Sometimes I think climatic zones very much influenced spiritual traditions. For example, it would have been pretty much impossible for someone to survive in cold climates without animal food back in the day.

When I started my solo wilderness retreat I had been vegan for 30 years, and I just couldn't bring myself to kill anything or eat meat. Even though I now eat meat due to diabetes; nonetheless, I still can't bring myself to kill anything, but I think I could fish for invasive species and live off of them. Snapping turtles and catfish and crayfish and small mouth bass I believe are all invasive species in the southwest, so one could eat well doing the environment a favor.

As for the "karmic implications" of meat eating, Siddhartha Gautam was not a vegetarian, nor was Hinduism or Brahmanism vegetarian at his time period. Also, from a strictly biological and anthropological perspective humans are omnivorous predators much like bears, so the argument for spiritual vegetarianism is weak.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 12:55:35 PM by Jhanananda »
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.