Questions about Nibbana

[Tad]

1. When enlightened beings enter parinibbana after death of their body, can they return to this or other world in some way to help other beings?

2. Monks that try to follow early suttas over later commentaries use certain suttas to refer to nibbana as unsupported consciousness, luminuous mind, etc. What do you think about such terminology?

[Jhanananda]

1. When enlightened beings enter parinibbana after death of their body, can they return to this or other world in some way to help other beings?

Yes, enlightened masters return to material form for the benefit of others.  This explains why great enlightened beings emerge from an apparent vacuum.

2. Monks that try to follow early suttas over later commentaries use certain suttas to refer to nibbana as unsupported consciousness, luminuous mind, etc. What do you think about such terminology?

I don't think the language you provided reflects true enlightenment; however I would agree there are a number of commonly held beliefs in every religion that reflect corruption.  My biggest problem with the institution of Buddhism is translating samadhi as concentration doing so proves whomever does so is part of the corruption of the Buddha dhamma.

[Tad]

Jhananda,

Absolutely good point regarding translation of samadhi. Translating it as concentration seems to be quite misleading.

Another question about nibbana. Since nibbana is the only real thing and it is the ultimate state of happiness, where did delusion come from that resulted into this world of suffering? So far I've concluded that this question is impossible to answer from human point of view.

[Jhanananda]

The answer to your question is in the Four Noble Truths, our greed, craving and covetousness is the cause of our suffering, and following the Noble Eightfold Path is the path that leads from greed, craving, covetousness and suffering to freedom of suffering in Nibanna, and we get to Nibanna through traversing the 8 stages of samadhi, thus it is essential to understand the 8 stages of samadhi because they are the doorway to nibbana.

[Tad]

Jhananda,

I wonder if there can a be a reasonable metaphysical explanation for the origination of desire. Some years ago I read a simile about the God being like a writer. Basically, the writer is writing a story and becomes so absorbed in it that the God begins mistakenly identifying with the characters, which results in multiple selves that we experience in this world.   

[Jhanananda]

You present an interesting hypothesis that the many souls are just many manifestations of one god.  I don't really have a problem with this hypothesis; nonetheless, we have to get to the 8th stage of samadhi to experience that level of subjective unity.  In between time we need to figure out how to get there.

Recently I have been reflecting upon hunter-gatherer societies, as an anthropologist, and also examining ancient religious figures like: the mythical Adam and Eve, Shiva and Siddhartha Gautama.  It seems to me these people represent variations on the hunter-gatherer cultural system, and I speculated that the real cause of the greed, craving and covetousness that is behind our suffering is the product of civilization which fosters greed, craving and covetousness. So, when we embrace a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, which necessitates cooperative community and avoidance of personal possessions, then we have a community that is working toward mutual enlightenment.

[Tad]

Probably the same reason why the most dedicated mystics always try to get away from civilization. There is just too much pressure and distractions in modern civilizations such as ours. However, it seems that civilization provides more opportunity for intellectual development that can come in handy in spirituality as well. For example, understanding cause and effect. How importantant do you think is that?

[Jhanananda]

Yes, I agree with you in part that they major mystics often abandon city living is to get away from the rapacious greed in city living, but regardless of how far back you want to go in history people have had to burn hydrocarbons for cooking, light and heating, and doing so produces air pollution, even on a small scale of hunter-gatherers there can be enough air pollution down wind from a fire to cause health problems for some people, then you concentrate a bunch of people into a smaller space life Mesopotamia, Egypt, Babylon, Greece, etc. and you could have some serious air pollution, which could be not just producing significant levels of chronic illness but possibly some collective insanity.

Meanwhile there is plenty of evidence that education as far back as you want to go in history has resulted in prosperity, consequently people have been buying their way through the educational system all along.  I certainly witnessed it in the decade or that I spent in universities studying and doing research. So, we cannot conclude that education necessarily leads to the development of critical thinking.

[Tad]

Hello dear friends,

I wanted to post another nibbana question for discussion.

What do you think is the factor or multiple factors that is required for one to go from jhanas to nibbana?

If we look at the suttas, they say that when Buddha was passing away from this world he went from 1st to 4th jhana and then nibbana. This implies that 1-4 jhanas is the vehicle for nibbina, not the higher jhana. But attaining jhanas does not automatically guarantee experience or nibbana.

[Jhanananda]

Hello dear friends,

I wanted to post another nibbana question for discussion.

What do you think is the factor or multiple factors that is required for one to go from jhanas to nibbana?

If we look at the suttas, they say that when Buddha was passing away from this world he went from 1st to 4th jhana and then nibbana. This implies that 1-4 jhanas is the vehicle for nibbina, not the higher jhana. But attaining jhanas does not automatically guarantee experience or nibbana.

Hello, Tad, thank you for posting another interesting question. In the suttas we see some suttas describe just the first 4 of the states of samma-samadhi which are called jhana. In other suttas we see all 8 stages of samma-samadhi defined fallowed by the attainment of nibbana. We also see in Siddhartha Gautama's life story that he studied with 2 teachers and learned access to various upper states of samma-samadhi. As I have posted here often the upper states are all Out-of-Body experiences; we have several people who landed here, such as Michael and most recently William, from the OOBE community. So, your question is very relevant.

What I see right on the OOBE community is an understanding that through some interior practices we can travel Out-of-Body to various destinations which can include high locations on the astral plan. The significance of this work is realizing that this material world is temporary, impermanent and we are all destined to die. So, if we can become skilled in the OOBE, then we can negotiate death, and hopefully not come back to the material world, which is true hell. And, the OOBE community has similar experiences that we report here of the vibrations, sounds and lights.

What I see wrong in the OOBE community is a head-long rush into getting Out-of-Body without taking the time to savor and saturate in the 4 preparatory states that we call 'jhana.' Also, there is no effort or recognition of the necessity of leading a lifestyle that leads to mastery in the spirit world. So, when the suttas emphasis the 4 jhanas over the 4 ayatanas, then this is the core message of the enlightened masters: enlightenment requires a lifestyle that produces ecstatic states, but they are essential for gaining access to the spirit world, and without regular access to the OOBE, how are we going to negotiate the spirit world upon death?

[Tad]

Hi Jhanananda,

Thank you for response. What do you think would be the way to get out of the cycle of rebirths completely including rebirth in heavenly realms?

[Jhanananda]

Hi Jhanananda,

Thank you for response. What do you think would be the way to get out of the cycle of rebirths completely including rebirth in heavenly realms?

Thank you, Tad, for posting your excellent question. If we examine the Four Noble Truths, the answer is there, it is overcoming craving at all levels. So, here we are in the lowest level, the material world. So, how do we get out of here permanently? We learn the OOBE and become so skilled with it that we reside in the upper domains, which are truly heavenly. We learn to negotiate those heavenly realms by becoming skilled at negotiating them through the OOBE. We keep negotiating those worlds as we shed the many layers of self, until all individual identity is shed and we become everything.

[Jean]

Hi Jhanananda,

Thank you for response. What do you think would be the way to get out of the cycle of rebirths completely including rebirth in heavenly realms?

Thank you, Tad, for posting your excellent question. If we examine the Four Noble Truths, the answer is there, it is overcoming craving at all levels. So, here we are in the lowest level, the material world. So, how do we get out of here permanently? We learn the OOBE and become so skilled with it that we reside in the upper domains, which are truly heavenly. We learn to negotiate those heavenly realms by becoming skilled at negotiating them through the OOBE. We keep negotiating those world as we shed the many layers of self, until all individual identity is shed and we become everthing.

Hi Jeff, could you elaborate on what you mean by negotiating heavenly realms? Based on my experience the upper world is only available when we have burnt all the karma accumulated throughout our many incarnations which requires going through a lot of pain. I had a glimpse once by chance but it was made clear to me that I had benefited from a karma-less being and it's not my place as long as I have karma left.

[Jhanananda]

Hi Jeff, could you elaborate on what you mean by negotiating heavenly realms? Based on my experience the upper world is only available when we have burnt all the karma accumulated throughout our many incarnations which requires going through a lot of pain. I had a glimpse once by chance but it was made clear to me that I had benefited from a karma-less being and it's not my place as long as I have karma left.

You will find most of the dialog here is driven by Buddhist philosophy that is recorded in the Pali Canon. So, to answer your inquiry based upon the karma theory and employing the Four Noble Truths, then, no, it may not take lifetimes to overcome karma. All we need to do is focus upon relinquishing craving and covetousness, which is mostly related to the material world. And, since you come from the OOBE community, then we are not going to have much OOBE experience if we have craving and covetousness for the material world.

[Tad]

Hi Jhanananda,

Thank you for response. What do you think would be the way to get out of the cycle of rebirths completely including rebirth in heavenly realms?

Thank you, Tad, for posting your excellent question. If we examine the Four Noble Truths, the answer is there, it is overcoming craving at all levels. So, here we are in the lowest level, the material world. So, how do we get out of here permanently? We learn the OOBE and become so skilled with it that we reside in the upper domains, which are truly heavenly. We learn to negotiate those heavenly realms by becoming skilled at negotiating them through the OOBE. We keep negotiating those world as we shed the many layers of self, until all individual identity is shed and we become everthing.

Thanks, Jhananda for a very simple and practical explanation.