Question about others OBE Experiences

[KriyaYogi]

I have had a very unusual and intensive training (several hours daily) in out of body work (2018-2020) so I do not know if my experiences match those of others.  Most of my OBE's were in front of a mirror at first and later I learned to do it while walking, sitting or partially at any time when fixing my gaze and not moving my eyes.  I had a very powerful teacher in out of body work who did it as his full time practice for over two decades.  One of my experiences when I was practicing towards the end was the experience of 'bring back' an experience from the other world.  Is this common for most OBE's?

   For example, if I was out of body and someone hit me in the arm, after returning to this body I would sometimes feel an ache in that arm, or if I went to a bar in the out of body state and had a drink after coming back to this body I would occosionally feel the intoxication for half an hour or if I took a shower in the other realm upon coming back I sometimes would feel wetness on my skin. 

-David

[Jhanananda]

I have had a very unusual and intensive training (several hours daily) in out of body work (2018-2020) so I do not know if my experiences match those of others.  Most of my OBE's were in front of a mirror at first and later I learned to do it while walking, sitting or partially at any time when fixing my gaze and not moving my eyes.  I had a very powerful teacher in out of body work who did it as his full time practice for over two decades.  One of my experiences when I was practicing towards the end was the experience of 'bring back' an experience from the other world.  Is this common for most OBE's?

   For example, if I was out of body and someone hit me in the arm, after returning to this body I would sometimes feel an ache in that arm, or if I went to a bar in the out of body state and had a drink after coming back to this body I would occosionally feel the intoxication for half an hour or if I took a shower in the other realm upon coming back I sometimes would feel wetness on my skin. 

-David

If you can walk around in your body it is not an OOBE.

[KriyaYogi]

I think it's just a partial experience.  My deepest experiences are when sitting still.  Like I was explaining in the other thread with Alex the experience is on a slider for me personally, from experiencing this reality to the other reality.  As I experience the other realm more my body here becomes more numb so as I do very deep yes I can't move this body.  I think if I experienced a full OOB I would have to be still.  Most of my experiences I am half here and half in the other place, maybe a few times I lost full body awareness of this realm for a few seconds.  Maybe this is not OOB but something else, I don't really know, which is why I was asking about bringing back experiences and feelings for those doing traditional OOB training.

Thanks for your thoughts,
   -David

[Alexander]

What Dave is referring to sounds like bilocation. Which I have read about from time to time in occult literature

I'm also thinking of the accounts of people seeing their doppelganger. A common occurrence when one is near death. I believe in the last days of Queen Elizabeth (the first) there was a recording of her witnessing such an event (in other words, seeing herself ).

[Jhanananda]

What Dave is referring to sounds like bilocation. Which I have read about from time to time in occult literature

I'm also thinking of the accounts of people seeing their doppelganger. A common occurrence when one is near death. I believe in the last days of Queen Elizabeth (the first) there was a recording of her witnessing such an event (in other words, seeing herself ).

Ok, just so we have a clear understanding of the mysterious mystical phenomena that is commonly reported by mystics I will define the terms discussed here more clearly

Bilocation: as reported in the literature of mystics, including reported in the Pali Canon were there are two reports from people who claim they reported seeing Siddhartha Gautama, or other mystics in two widely dispersed locations that were so far apart but at the same time that the observed individual could not possibly have made the journey in a day.  This is easily explained by two people with strong similarity of appearance and dress and behavior but are actually different people.

Doppelganger: This is reported by people who meditate to the 4th or 5th stage of samadhi, and is often reported by people experiencing a near death experience (NDE). I have had this experience many times.  It occurs for me as I am going deeper than the 4th jhana and approaching the 5th stage of samadhi which is the first ayatana. Where by I see the silhouette of an individual as if gazing at me as I am gazing at it.  And sometime I find myself actually seeing the back of someone's head. I have come to realize that the silhouette is mine and I am drifting out of body (OOBE).  I have found this occurrence happens just as I am leaving the body, and I don't always leave the body, but I am drifting out.

Visions of past mystics, This phenomena is actually the same as above and has been reported by contemplatives in several religions.  The earliest reports are of seeing Shiva, who is reported to be a perennial living being of eternal physical life coming from Hinduism.  Aspects of this record of Shiva strongly suggest it is of Dravidian origin and most probably predates the Arian invasion of India. Similar reports from the 19th and 20th century state this is an apparition of Babaji coming from the Self Realization Fellowship and Yogananda. There are reports from Christian mystics having the apparition of Mary, mother of Jesus, or of Jesus.

What I see in Dave's report doesn't sound like either an apparition or Doppelganger or Bilocation.  There is a 4th phenomena that better describes Dave's experience, it is mental projection.

Mental Projection: is the ability to project one's awareness to another location in space, time or domain in which one enters into a trance-like state in meditation and wills ones attention to another location, time or domain.  This is something I learned from Silva Mind Control, in early 1974 in my first year of meditation practice.  By then I was already having OOBEs, and had been meditating daily and experiencing depth in meditation for about 6 months before attending my first of 2 Silva Mind Control weekend workshops.

[KriyaYogi]

Alex this is how my teacher discribes it.  Keep in mind I was doing up to near 3 hours a day of 'astral projection training(?)' for years with 18 different methods as one system.  The 2x10 minute mirror gazing sits were only 1 of 18 exercises.   My teacher described his system as a 'way to teleport and time travel throughout the multiverse'. 

I hesitate to link anyone to his training though because I have suggested it to many people and they became targeted individuals.  Some of them ended up in hospitals and some in jail.  My teacher even had an assassination hit put on him several years ago which thankfully failed.  He has also had drugs planted on him to try to frame him.

Yes I'm sure Jeff has experiences lots of Siddhis too, not that they are important in themselves of course. 

Another experience that happened to me was 'temporal glitching' and what seemed to be seversal teleportations.   I had several instances where a moment occured two times in a row.  Such as at work a man walked by my work location and then 10 seconds later again.  Another time my phone asked me to clear the hard drive because it had no space and then 1 minute after clearing it my phone asked me to do it again.  I had 6 or 8 of these glithes.  Right before I finally ended the training I had one a day three days in a row.  I believe you reported experincing similar glitches with devices in one post Alex, is that correct?

When doing this training I also had 4 or 5 of what seemed to be teleportatations.  The experience was very subtle and you could easily miss it.  I would be driving and feel a knock on my head and then extreme disorientation.  Suddenly I would not know where I was and suddenly I realized I seemed to be further along my trip than expected.  I also seemed to arrive at my destination before I should have.

I know I did not finish this training but my targeting became too severe and I had to give up the training to focus on protection magic and working with spirits for protection.  I think it would have eventually resulted in OOB similar to what Jeff is describing which is what my teacher reported experiencing after ten years practice.

-David

[KriyaYogi]

The goal of my teacher's sytem was not really powers though, keep that in mind, it was to experience higher realities (OOB) those experiences of powers seemed to just develop along the way.  Even in partial astral projections I got so much happiness that it was starting to break down my ego and my attachment to this reality as the real one which my teacher told me was the goal.
-David

[Naman]

This is really interesting. Cause i know this method of mirror gazing, in this particular siddhi u kindof get bilocation siddhi as well. When u meditate on your own form, u essentially are using ur consciousness to project ur form outside of your body, they called the second form as "chaya purush" (hindi) which translates to "shadow being". Fun part is this can give u accomplishment of bi-location and more importantly it CAN interact with material world too, infact it can dematerialize things at distance and rematerialize in ur actual location. In regular oobe/astral projection its just consciousness we are projecting outside, wherver ur consciousness is present more than 50% u feel u r there, but in this practice u r materializing ur form.  These are two different practices. But ultimately its all about concentration and intention (what u want to do with that heightened and focused attention).

Alex this is how my teacher discribes it.  Keep in mind I was doing up to near 3 hours a day of 'astral projection training(?)' for years with 18 different methods as one system.  The 2x10 minute mirror gazing sits were only 1 of 18 exercises.   My teacher described his system as a 'way to teleport and time travel throughout the multiverse'. 

I hesitate to link anyone to his training though because I have suggested it to many people and they became targeted individuals.  Some of them ended up in hospitals and some in jail.  My teacher even had an assassination hit put on him several years ago which thankfully failed.  He has also had drugs planted on him to try to frame him.

Yes I'm sure Jeff has experiences lots of Siddhis too, not that they are important in themselves of course. 

Another experience that happened to me was 'temporal glitching' and what seemed to be seversal teleportations.   I had several instances where a moment occured two times in a row.  Such as at work a man walked by my work location and then 10 seconds later again.  Another time my phone asked me to clear the hard drive because it had no space and then 1 minute after clearing it my phone asked me to do it again.  I had 6 or 8 of these glithes.  Right before I finally ended the training I had one a day three days in a row.  I believe you reported experincing similar glitches with devices in one post Alex, is that correct?

When doing this training I also had 4 or 5 of what seemed to be teleportatations.  The experience was very subtle and you could easily miss it.  I would be driving and feel a knock on my head and then extreme disorientation.  Suddenly I would not know where I was and suddenly I realized I seemed to be further along my trip than expected.  I also seemed to arrive at my destination before I should have.

I know I did not finish this training but my targeting became too severe and I had to give up the training to focus on protection magic and working with spirits for protection.  I think it would have eventually resulted in OOB similar to what Jeff is describing which is what my teacher reported experiencing after ten years practice.

-David

[Jhanananda]

Thanks, Naman and David for your reports on mirror gazing.  Very interesting.

[KriyaYogi]

Naman yes, the goal of my teacher's training was to develop 'God Powers' and OOBE.  He describes the exact same Siddhis you describe, being able to physically materialize objects with him from his travels very occasionally when he projects as well as teleporting.  I can confirm a very strong suspicion that this training does develop physical teleportation from my experiences.

  There were several times over 3 years of doing it when I was driving in my car and focusing on being at my destination and I felt a 'knock' on my 3rd eye.  I became very disoriented as if I was waking up from sleep and suddenly realized I was further along my drive than possible and the few times it happened I seemed to arrive earlier than I should have.  I had about 10 such experiences over 3 years.  These Siddhis do develop with this training, and I had a little experience of it, but the goal was really the OOBE through will at any time to experience higher consciousness. 

I would love to hear more about where you learned about this type of training Naman.  Keep in mind that mirror gazing 2x10 minute sessions a day was only one of 18 practices my teacher recommended to me.  The others involved very strong Metta consciousness (loving kindness) and Merkaba training.  Totaling 2 hours a day or more.


I am definitely out of practice, having not done this much in several years but would be happy to talk about it.  I didn't fully OOBE to be technical like my teacher was able to at will but I was able to get close a few times doing mirror gazing.  4th Jhana I believe.

-David

[KriyaYogi]

>>>
When u meditate on your own form, u essentially are using ur consciousness to project ur form outside of your body, they called the second form as "chaya purush" (hindi) which translates to "shadow being"
>>>
   
    I don't have a proper term for what I experienced; it is not exactly OOBE.  I sometimes call it 'Causal Projection'.   But whenever I 'traveled' as my teacher called it I would pick up some human body or enter into some human body.  It was not a mental projection of myself.  Sometimes I entered into a woman's body or if I was allowed to travel out of the solar system an extraterrestrial's body, one or two times even a young kid's body.

  I would be curious, when others have done OOBE and look at their astral self is it a representation of your current Earth body or something else?  My spirit body doing this mind traveling was never a representation of this body.

I could do this traveling at most times towards the end for the three years, including right now while typing...  Focusing on traveling I can see an overlay, a transparency, of a desert wasteland, something like the salt flats and I can feel myself walking, wearing blue suspenders as a 45 year old man with a beard and boots on and looking at the horizon and the cracks in the mud, but as I focus on it and the vision becomes more opaque and heavy it gets harder for me to type and I have to pick one reality to focus on.  I do get best results in front of a mirror giving full focus to the experience.

-David

[Naman]

This is really interesting to hear about this ability from someone who can do it. This is kindof mixed ability what u talk about, being able to latch onto others.. there have been knwledge of becoming one with consciousness of others and learning their mind inside out as if u r them.. they were knwn as all knwers.. but as i have experienced oobe i feel like i have a floating light body which doesn't need any other physical body to latch onto. Therez a book "autobiography of a yogi" well knw, Alex have read it too if i rembr right, it has got one chapter, " a saint with two bodies" how he fixed his gaze and then manifests his same physical self somewhere else too while being present here .  U essentially become a ghost consciousness and with enough water n earth element u can make others see u. Ultimately it's the usage of third eye concentration and intention. But these siddhis are seen as distraction to spiritual path always. It's just another cool thing u learn to do without any real contribution towards ur liberation. However it does make u aware of fact that physical world isn't the only world. There was a person who while meditating told us that he felt like he was the car in which he was sitting, at one point he cud feel like he is inside the person sitting next to him, he cud hear all his thoughts. In patanjali yoga Sutra where it talks about developing siddhi, prerequisite is to develop a concentrated mind and then it simply explain if u focus with that mind on this object /spot u get this siddhi and so on.. only object was changing prerequisite is same. I guess mirror helps in giving a shape to ur projection form. Since u r also training ur mind to retain a form. Precisely how we see dead people sometimes cause of their self image they if gather elements they can be seen in dim light sometimes.

[Naman]

I hope you are well 🙏

Thanks, Naman and David for your reports on mirror gazing.  Very interesting.

[Jhanananda]

Thank you, Naman, for expressing your kind thoughts, and posting to this forum.

Regarding entering another person's body, I have done that many times.  I was married, and I had lovers, and I found when I was out of body sometimes I would enter the person's body who I was sleeping with. There was no intention on my part to do so, it just happened occasionally, and I expect it happens for others who are skilled with the OOBE.  I would caution anyone against trying to cultivate this practice, because people sure have a lot of neuroses, and for me entering somone else's body was not pleasant. I just got insight into their neuroses.

Regarding Yogananada, and his book "Autobiography of a Yogi." I really didn't get much out of his writing. I got much more out of reading the writing of the major mystics: Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Rumi, Kabir, Patanjali, and Siddhartha Gautama.  I am sure there are other noteworthy mystics to study, and I always look forward to others posting their take on a mystic's writing to see if there is a new voice worth paying attention to.

[KriyaYogi]

>>>
  when I was out of body sometimes I would enter the person's body who I was sleeping with
>>>
   Thanks for the clarification Jeff.  Very similar to my experience.  I am pleased to see the 'mental projection' I was doing is similar to what happens in full OOBE.   I was told by my teacher that the mental projection leads to full OOBE which he could do.

Naman:
  As far as OOB leading to liberation.  I suspect it does, in the sense that it breaks the mind from this realm, breaks down the barriers of attachment to this world.  That is what seemed to happen to my teacher.  Talking to him on the phone after 20 years of him doing OOBE he didn't seem to have many worldly desires left, except to teach others.

-David