Author Topic: Bliss  (Read 4260 times)

Jhanananda

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Bliss
« on: December 21, 2023, 06:24:53 PM »
Bliss

What is bliss? We have been discussing the mystical experiences we experience when we experience depth in meditation. The suttas use terms such as Piti and sukha to describe the 8 stages of samma-samadhi, and those terms are commonly translated as bliss and joy respectively. So, what is bliss? In my experience of these altered states of consciousness is bliss is the experience of love, and in each of the 8 stages of samma-samadhi bliss is felt progressively more intensely.

First stage of ecstasy
So, our personal history of love is we often experience it from our parents as children. Then we go through puberty and begin to experience love of an individual. Perhaps we get married, and have children, then we experience love toward and from our children. And, these human experiences of love tend to be joyful experiences. One could argue this interpersonal love is the beginning of the ecstasies. And, often we spend our whole life pursuing human love, but it often comes with disappointments because all humans are flawed.

Second stage of ecstasy
So, since human life also has a great deal of suffering, then we look around for, and create, experiences that make us happy. Hunter-gatherer societies are known for seasonal rituals which the entire community participates in. Observers of these events record a general sense of happiness expressed by those people who are attending these events. We can argue that these primitive social events produced a level of ecstasy in the attendees. These events were most commonly expressed during foraging abundance which was often fermented into a low-alcohol content beverage which was drunk abundantly by the attendees to enhance the ecstasies they were experiencing.

As civilizations grew these seasonal events became ritualized and elaborated upon, which is the birth of religion. Other events also became ritualized, such as sporting events. And, secular theater was also born. So, we could argue that religion, theater and spectator sports are all venues of entertainment that are intended to get people’s attention off of the often grinding misery of birth, disease, injuries, work and death that pervades life. We could thus argue that ritualized human events are vehicles for the second stage of ecstasy.

Third stage of ecstasy
Bliss within the set and setting of a religious event we could argue is the third stage of ecstasy.  The typical set and setting in many religious events is a place that is perceived of as sacred, such as a church or temple, which is arranged in such a way as to enhance the perception of sacredness, which might include images and/or sculptures, or icons of or suggesting a religious context, such as candles, a point of reference into a sanctuary often containing an alter, and a flame. An officiating priest is often included, and he or she will have some kind of sacred performance, which might include an inspiring discourse. Music is often part of these religious rituals which tends to enhance the religious experience for those attending.

Fourth stage of ecstasy
When I took up a contemplative life 50 years ago I created a sacred space in my home, which was a small room, where I placed a simple alter, with objects that suggested to me sacredness. I included whatever sacred book I was reading at the time, which might have been the Bible, New Testament, Pali Canon, etc. Before sitting in meditation I might play some calming and inspiring music, then read a paragraph or page from an inspiring religious text, then meditate. Then the first thing I do when I begin a meditation session is to recall a previous experience of depth in meditation, in the same way Siddhartha Gautama did in his night of enlightenment as expressed in the...

Mahaasaccaka sutta (MN 36)
Quote from: Mahaasaccaka sutta (MN 36)
“I recalled the experience under the shade of the rose apple tree near my father’s field: Secluded from sensual thoughts and secluded from thoughts of demerit, with applied and sustained attention (vitakka and vicára) and with joy (sukha) and pleasure (piiti) born of seclusion, I attained to the first jhana. Then the awareness arose this is the path to enlightenment. I thought, why should I fear this pleasantness, which is other than sensual pleasure and away from thoughts of demerit.”

In this way a contemplative creates an interior set and setting by recalling a previous experience of depth in meditation. Consequently my meditations were never limited to time. I would instead sit until I felt a sacred experience had occurred, which was pleasant, blissful, joyful and peaceful. This is the pattern of my twice daily contemplative practice for 50 years, which has born the fruit of bliss, joy and ecstasy. This would be understood as Siddhartha Gautama’s first stage of samma-samadhi, which he termed as the first jhana. We have discussed many times before the 8 stages of samma-samadhi, so I am arguing that we could recognize 12 stages of ecstasy, four of which lead up to the genuine mystical experiences and understand the larger picture of human behavior as a pursuit of the 12 stages of bliss, joy and ecstasy.
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Michael Hawkins

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2023, 06:09:27 PM »
This is wonderful, Jeffrey, thank you for sharing this set of insights.  I see what you mean about the idea of 12 stages of ecstasy instead of 8, if we include family and social experiences that are designed to address human suffering and produce pleasant and joyful experiences leading to ecstasy.

As you and I talked about in my blog, I never considered the practice of recalling previous experiences of deep ecstasy at the beginning of a sit, at least in a conscious way - although in retrospect, I know that this is exactly what I've done all along.  Ever since 1994, when early-life full-blown ecstatic experiences began to re-emerge, it has been the boon of memory that keeps me coming back to the cushion, since such recollections tell me it will happen again and again if I just get out of the way and let it find its way.  So as it turns out, I've been following the Buddha's example without even knowing it.  As saturation becomes stabilized, memories of ecstasy are more immediate and present at all times.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2023, 06:12:23 PM by Michael Hawkins »

Tad

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2023, 07:36:23 AM »
Hi Jhananda,

Thanks for an interesting post with very practical implications. Greag comeback after your absence in the forum for a while :)

I've recently been pondering the reasons why human beings seek pleasures and this article really hits the essence of the issue.

I also love that you shared some new bits about your prep for meditation practice.

The struggle in material world never seems to end. Sometimes I get too tired and hope to find some sort of shortcut, which leads nowhere, just more thinking that only amplifies existing suffering. But then I remember your teachings and get back to long meditation sits. There is really no replacement for that.




Jhanananda

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2023, 11:42:11 AM »
Thank you Michael, and Tad for your responses, and it is nice to hear from both of you again. Yes, consciously or unconsciously we use memory in meditation, sometimes to our advantage, and more times to our disadvantage, so recalling a moment of bliss can use memory to our advantage in a meditation sit, which will hopefully give way to the still mind of the second jhana.
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Michael Hawkins

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2023, 04:01:11 PM »
During my two sits since you posted this, I've brought more formal attention to a memory of bliss.  Last night especially, I spent just a brief period in first jhana before deepening absorption and stilling of the mind led me into second jhana.  I appreciate having this piece of guidance, which I will use from now on.

Jhanananda

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2023, 02:16:30 PM »
During my two sits since you posted this, I've brought more formal attention to a memory of bliss.  Last night especially, I spent just a brief period in first jhana before deepening absorption and stilling of the mind led me into second jhana.  I appreciate having this piece of guidance, which I will use from now on.

I'm glad it is working for you, Michael.  Keep it up and let us know if any more depth comes your way.
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KriyaYogi

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2024, 12:00:50 AM »
Thanks for sharing Jeff.  My experience with Kriya Yoga is I believe I am in the 1st Jhana during the breathwork process.  We are always instructed to meditate silently after Kriya to absorb the energy.  Usually I sit for meditation immediately after 30-45 minutes of Kriya Yoga and within 5-8 minutes I experience skin itching all over my body then often pass through this to a more dispersed state of consciousness, often my crown chakra gets rapidly activated.

   Another process I have done in the past for 3 years; I used to do spirit projection training with a mirror and I achieved a deeper state than Kriya where my entire body sometimes went numb, usually about 5-7 minutes after sitting at the mirror and gazing through myself and letting go of this reality.  All my tiredness went away when I achieved the deepest level and I felt my body go numb as if an opiate had been applied to it.  This didn't happen every time but occasionally.  Possibly 4th Jhana.
  Sometimes a bright point of light developed in the center of my vision as I gazed as the mirror and pulled my mind towards it.  I would astral project in this state and was amazed when I came back to find myself back in the body.

-David

Jhanananda

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2024, 12:12:08 PM »
Yes, David, it does sound like you are indeed occasionally experiencing some of the stages of samma-samadhi; however, you seem to be obsessing over the technique and giving it way too much credit for your experiences. What we find here collectively is the technique gets us to the first stage of samma-samadhi. which is characterized by bliss and joy, which is great; however, the second stage of samma-samadhi is about stilling the mind, and the mind cannot be still if it is engaged in a meditation technique. So, just work toward stilling your mind and I am sure you will find greater depth in meditation.
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KriyaYogi

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2024, 10:34:54 PM »
I am just following my teacher and guru's instructions.  My lineage describes that at the perfected level you will be in what you describe as 4th Jhana within 5 minutes of starting Kriya Yoga.  The technique becomes automatic like breathing or sleeping... it becomes technique less... if that makes sense, an automatic flow like the Kundalini flows automatically or sleeping happens automatically without effort and merges with the Kundalini.  I'm not there yet but still working on it.  Many different paths for many different people ya know?   

I agree that if you are cognitively focused on the technique you wouldn't get to 2nd Jhana but in the case of Kriya Yoga the technique becomes automatic and happens with no effort in the same way that the Kundalini flows automatically so what you are saying makes sense.

-David

Jhanananda

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2024, 10:12:14 AM »
I am just following my teacher and guru's instructions.  My lineage describes that at the perfected level you will be in what you describe as 4th Jhana within 5 minutes of starting Kriya Yoga.  The technique becomes automatic like breathing or sleeping... it becomes technique less... if that makes sense, an automatic flow like the Kundalini flows automatically or sleeping happens automatically without effort and merges with the Kundalini.  I'm not there yet but still working on it.  Many different paths for many different people ya know?   

I agree that if you are cognitively focused on the technique you wouldn't get to 2nd Jhana but in the case of Kriya Yoga the technique becomes automatic and happens with no effort in the same way that the Kundalini flows automatically so what you are saying makes sense.

-David

David, it is doubtful that your guru uses the term 'jhana,' because the term 'jhana' is a characteristic of early Buddhism and your guru is not a Buddhist.  Secondly, your guru is not known for providing a cogent and logically true description of the 8 stages of samadhi, or otherwise I would be a student of his. Additionally, if your guru were providing you with cogent and logically true guidance, then what are you doing here?
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KriyaYogi

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Re: Bliss
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2024, 08:15:34 AM »
I'm not saying I need instruction, I'm saying I am a friend to give my personal view. I really care for you Jeff and can give my own view is all.  I would like to respond to your direct comments now.  I wish you would like be so bilaterial...:
>>>
David, it is doubtful that your guru uses the term 'jhana,'
>>>
  No he certainly does not he uses the term, Nirvikalpa and Savikalpa, a person who has passed through the star and one who has not.


>>>
.  Secondly, your guru is not known for providing a cogent and logically true description of the 8 stages of samadhi, or otherwise I would be a student of his.
>>>
 There a couple of worldwide gurus who have demonstrated themselves as Buddhas by raising people from the dead who were dead 3 days.  Primarily Shiva Bala Yogi and Maha Ananda Siddha.  I will be interested about other adepts who are found who have testiomony of raising people from the dead.


>>>
 Additionally, if your guru were providing you with cogent and logically true guidance, then what are you doing here?
>>>
  We have a history, why thrash about the truth?