Seeking practical uses for the fruits of the contemplative life !

[Cybermonk]

Alohq fellow Cybermonks,

So.... what can you do with the fruits? Only sit in bliss, perhaps teach, build a
structure to absorb goods, dollars, or forms of adoration for the ego?

Can a person who understands completely the OBE state find practical uses
for the struggling masses?

Can each level of Jhana be developed in a practical way that a less driven mystic
use?

Is a still mind only, "just a still mind", or will it lead to creating a better doorstop?

How about the practical use for full enlightenment?

Lets hear it mystics!! Anyone want to get out of the lotus position and make
a stab at using the mysticism way to make everyday  life a little easier for
the average human being.

Party on,
Kmo

[Jhanananda]

Alohq fellow Cybermonks,

So.... what can you do with the fruits? Only sit in bliss, perhaps teach, build a
structure to absorb goods, dollars, or forms of adoration for the ego?

Hi Kimo, well if one wanted to become rich, powerful, famous, get laid a lot, etc. then one does not need any of the superior fruit.  All one needs is a bunch of naive devotees, and one can have all the seven deadly sins at once.  Just look at the history of mainstream religion, and the gurus for the last 60 years.

Can a person who understands completely the OBE state find practical uses
for the struggling masses?

Can each level of Jhana be developed in a practical way that a less driven mystic
use?

Is a still mind only, "just a still mind", or will it lead to creating a better doorstop?

How about the practical use for full enlightenment?

Lets hear it mystics!! Anyone want to get out of the lotus position and make
a stab at using the mysticism way to make everyday  life a little easier for
the average human being.

Party on,
Kmo

The fruit are not developed one at a time.  They just come to those who are rigorous, self-aware, ethical contemplatives.  The "practical use" we put them to is self-awareness, insight into anything and everything, especially being able to read between the lines in a really poorly translated religious document, such as the Bible and the Pali Canon.

The essential "practical application" of enlightenment is freedom from suffering.  Considering that suicide is one of the more common ways people, then enlightenment will relieve the suffering (dhukkha) that brings people to suicide.

Another "practical application" of enlightenment is freedom from addictive behavior.  So, it could be considered a recovery program that actually works, verses AA, which does not.

[Cybermonk]

Hi Jeffrey,

Ok... I see. I guess I'm seeking simpler things.  I'm thinking of an example;
 
When we were discussing using massage and energy work on the subtle
body, to induce a healing response in both bodies, it would be  necessary
to first achieve the correct Jhana stage, which produces the OBE state.

I guess this is the type of practical uses I am referring to. Jeffrey,please
excuse my unscientific rambling. I realize you are a trained researcher
and you must be pulling your hair out trying to make sense out of all
these post you've replied all these years. Thanks,
Kimo

[Jhanananda]

Hi Jeffrey,

Ok... I see. I guess I'm seeking simpler things.  I'm thinking of an example;
 
When we were discussing using massage and energy work on the subtle
body, to induce a healing response in both bodies, it would be  necessary
to first achieve the correct Jhana stage, which produces the OBE state.

The thing to get, Kimo, is after the mind is stilled, which occurs at the 2nd stage of the religious experience, or 2nd jhana, then the rest of the stages are progressively non-cognitive.  This means people are not directing the religious experience.  Instead they are just letting go, submitting, surrendering, or whatever term suits your fancy, and allowing the religious experience to do whatever it is going to do. So, using the religious experience to win the lottery, or heal, for the most part is irrelevant to the rigorous, self-aware, contemplative.

However, another "practical application" of the stages of the religious experience is those who meditate a lot every day do acquire considerable healing ability, and can heal people through close association and direct contact.  Early in my spiritual journey I had a natural healing practice, in which I proscribed herbs, and did body work.  I actually combined the walking meditation as shown in the retreat video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzN_ceUh_9Q while doing healing work.  The lame did not take up their bed and walk, nor did the blind see, nor the dead rise, but people reported they experienced a general improvement in their health which was significant enough to justify repeated treatments.

So, I have been thinking that more people would embrace this work if they found a livelihood in it, and here are the two livelihoods that I can see coming from this work.

1) Healing work, as described above
2) Recovery counseling and therapy as described in my previous responses.

I guess this is the type of practical uses I am referring to. Jeffrey,please
excuse my unscientific rambling. I realize you are a trained researcher
and you must be pulling your hair out trying to make sense out of all
these post you've replied all these years. Thanks,
Kimo

Thanks for posting Kimo, I always enjoy your comments, and questions.