Author Topic: The Dark Night builds the Immaterial Body  (Read 22592 times)

Jhanananda

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Re: The Dark Night builds the Immaterial Body
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2013, 08:52:35 PM »
Aloha to you Cybermonks,

Yeah.... reality checking is definitely one of the tools in  a mystics backpack.
A question? I've been trying to stabilize dream states and/or the occasional
OBE by locating books, and/or magazines, ect. within dream states.
I've been told if you open the book, you will not find words, rather you will
find unintelligible squiggles?  A reality/dream check?
Later,
Kimo
There are a number of methods of reality checking that I have come across. 

Castaneda suggested finding your hands.  I never did find my hands, but I found looking for my hands a complete waste of time.

I friend of mine markets a device that you put in your hand, like a ring, and you are supposed to ware it at night when you are asleep.  You are supposed to push a button on it and it will vibrate if you are in the physical world; whereas, it is supposed to not if you push the button in the dream world.  It seems like another useless waste of time and money to me, because in an OOBE one can manifest anything even a reality checking device.
Hello Kimo, that is a good question. I have also been out picking up books and trying to find some stability in the dream world. I thought that the books I looked at had some amazing secrets but when I eventualy was able to look further I noticed they were filled with giberish.
I have read many books of OOBEs and other charismatic phenomena, and I found most of them giberish, because they are most often written by people who have never had an OOBE, and who confuse creative visualization and mental projection for an OOBE.
Further to the case of what to do OOB I have looked for wize ones and found them and also higher entities and found them but have no idea what to do with them once I find them.
I have encountered enlightened ones on the astral plane many times.  One just learns by absorbing their knowledge directly.  There is no need for speech there; and the transmission of knowledge there is instantaneous.
I would like to ask Jeff about the difference of 3 things, 1. the dream world, 2. the OOB world, 3. the pysical world. Which one is real (so to speak) and how to find stability in one of those worlds.

Valdy
The difference between the three worlds, physical, dream and OOBE is it is all dreams within dreams in countless layers of illusion.  However, the physical universe has basic limitations that we call the laws of physics.  So, one could test the laws of physics as a reality test.  The main reality test that I would propose is try flying.  You can't levitate in the physical universe but you can in an OOBE. 

Dreams are just the semi-conscious lowest layer of the astral plane.
I don't know where to put this, but have noticed a book on-line for free download.

The Book of the discipline : (Vinaya-pitaka) (1949)
Horner, I. B. (Isaline Blew), 1896-1981

PDF 17.6MB

http://archive.org/details/bookofdiscipline03hornuoft
Thanks, Valdy, I downloaded it.  It is not the Vinaya-pitaka.  It is an early translation of the Digha Nikaya Vol. 2, but I appreciate finding it nonetheless, because I like to read multiple translations whenever I can.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 08:54:26 PM by Jhanananda »
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Alexander

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Re: The Dark Night builds the Immaterial Body
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2013, 12:07:05 AM »
Hello Aglorincz, and Kimo, and thank-you for expressing your interesting thoughts.  Aglorincz, I believe it is reasonable to propose that through negotiating the dark night of the soul, then we would build an immaterial body.  This concept is consistent with Vajrayana Buddhism in their varias kayas.

The trikaya is definitely something I had in mind as I wrote it. It's hard to conjecture how exactly all the immaterial stuff works, but I would venture to say it's either:

(1) we're born with a "particle" of the divine, but when we lead a rigorous religious practice, this particle "builds" or accretes into the immaterial body/bodies.

Or (2) we're born with "all" the immaterial bodies, but in the ordinary person they are extremely unrefined and are thus inaccessible. In this approach a rigorous religious practice "refines" what is already there and makes the bodies accessible to us.
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"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Luke Avedon

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Re: The Dark Night builds the Immaterial Body
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2013, 12:50:23 AM »
Hello,

Or it could just be we forget about the immaterial body.  Similar to the cases of children who forget their past lives and then forget around ages 7 or 8.  Mystics who have access to it just remembered how to get their again--but if the body is destroyed we would once again remember.

--Luke


Jhanananda

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Re: The Dark Night builds the Immaterial Body
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2013, 01:03:44 PM »
(1) we're born with a "particle" of the divine, but when we lead a rigorous religious practice, this particle "builds" or accretes into the immaterial body/bodies.

Or (2) we're born with "all" the immaterial bodies, but in the ordinary person they are extremely unrefined and are thus inaccessible. In this approach a rigorous religious practice "refines" what is already there and makes the bodies accessible to us.
Well, if we read the first sutta in the long discourse we find 64 things Siddhartha Gautama's philosophy was not about, and a lot of that was not speculating about the immaterial domains; whereas, he wanted his followers to engage fully in his Noble Eightfold Path to experience it directly.

It is worth noting here that there is nothing in the suttas that suggests support for devotional or religious behavior, but everything in support of a contemplative life.  Some people tend to confuse religiosity with the contemplative life, so I just wanted to reinforce that message.

The other thing is most people never have a religious experience; and most religious people never have a religious experience; and most people who practice meditation never have a religious experience.  So, why is that?

The reason why most people never have a religious experience is, because most people are too busy paying attention to the material world. The reason why most religious people never have a religious experience is, because most religious people are too busy burying their emotional baggage under a mountain of religious behavior. The reason why most people who practice meditation never have a religious experience is, because most people who practice meditation are either: too lazy, or too busy paying attention to the material world, or burying their emotional baggage under a mountain of meditation practices and techniques, or all of the above.

This is why I state the way to enlightenment is by following a skillful, rigorous, self-aware, ethical, contemplative life.  One must be skillful to be sensitive to the arising charisms (jhana-nimitta). One must be rigorous, and not lazy. One must be self-aware, and not in denial. One must be ethical by avoiding addictive behavior. One must lead a contemplative life, which is practicing meditation rigorously, which is not just practicing meditation for 20 minutes once a week, or doing millions of mantra recitations, or millions of prostrations before idols, but several 1-hour long meditation sessions per day.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.