Spontaneous movement

[Jhanananda]

Spontaneous movement can occur during meditation.  It is known as a 'Kriyas' in Sanskrit.  You may find reading and/or viewing the essay and video on this subject informative:

Spontaneous, Charismatic. Movement, Kriyas (April 23, 2004)
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/kriyas.htm
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0qj5oh5EK8

[Twin Oceans]

I have never had any dramatic kriya or ecstatic experiences, but I have had a few jerky shakes.  These are very occasional and can happen when I'm relaxing, meditating or falling asleep.  I read or heard somewhere that they're the body's natural way of ridding itself of accumulated stress.  I've observed cats and dogs as well as children have those jerky shakes when they're asleep.

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you Twin Oceans for posting your comments to this thread.  Yes, jerks occur when people, and animals, relax; and hypnotists have observed the phenomena in their clients; they call it "hypnic-jerk." So, I agree, it seems to be related to releasing stress, so when we recall that Saint Vitus was burned at the stake for manifesting these phenomena, and I was booted out of a Goenka retreat for manifesting these phenomena, then we can conclude that no human society has come to terms with these phenomena; and humans are still just so very bound up in mysterious explanations for very simple phenomena.

[Econetic]

Kriyas certainly are real.  I notice I also often tighten up, muscle-wise, and this seems to tie in with sensations as of a subtle-body 'hardening/setting'.   Someone once suggested to me that the Papal shepherd's crook was a symbol of this effect, as the crook matches the hunched-forward look such muscle tightening brings about.

[Jhanananda]

Econetic, I too experience a tenssioning of the muscles, especially along the spine, when energy (kundalini) is rising; although I would not put this phenomena into the kriya category, but under energy (kundalini).  And, I believe the iconography of the staff/sword, etc. is more about the rising of energy (kundalini).  Another aspect of the staff/shepherd's crook might be related to the kinesthetic charism, in which the subject often feels dizzy, and would therefore need a staff to walk.

[mcarl40]

Haha....booted out of a Goenka retreat for spontaneous movement. I hafta let that sink in....

It is true that in group meditation, you feel a certain compulsion to sit absolutely still that is often just not what you should be doing at that moment.

Most of my meditation is done alone now, and yes, there often does arise a sort of spontaneous jerking. I certainly would not allow myself to experience this at a tight Zen Center retreat!!

But then I wouldn't have the foundation for meditating alone if I had not gone to all those Zen Center meetings....so if you are just starting, kids, imho its a good idea to seek out a group and then go off on your own.

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you, mcarl40, for joining this forum and responding to some of the threads here.  Yes, I was booted out of a Goenka retreat for my head spontaneously bobbing when I meditate.  I find if I am going to meditate deeply, then I have to relax deeply, and when I do, sometimes the body moves on its own, and that is called a krya in Sanskrit.

When a meditation organization fails to recognize that deep meditation requires deep relaxation, and deep relaxation leads to spontaneous movements, then we have to conclude that meditation organization does not understand meditation. 

If we find that we are in a meditation organization that does not understand, or value, deep meditation, then we should either try to change that organization's perspective by informing them, or we need to leave and join with fellow contemplatives who do recognize, understand, and value, deep meditation.

[Jhanananda]

nikic0825

Hello Mr Brooks,

I just wanted to thank you for posting youtube videos about spontaneous movements and vocalizations.  I have brought these phenomena up in a buddhist meditation group that I have attended and they have no idea what I am talking about.  My group leader tried to get some information for me but the only response I got was that they agreed that it was kundalini and the dicussion ended there.  I havent been able to get any satisfactory explanations for what I am experiencing until now.  This is a really important subject that needs to be talked about.  Friends and family have no clue what I am trying to explain to them and I think it is important to talk to other people who have experienced the same thing.  I am not really afraid of it.  I have not felt anything evil or negative during my meditations.  It feels natural and healing.  I joined a kundalini group but I have not really felt satisifed with the information I have received there.  Finding information about it in a buddhist context has been nearly impossible.  I have had more luck with a pentecostal explanation but I find that school of thought too limiting.  I like how you connect several religions to the experience.  I feel like all religions are derived from the same source and I think these related experiences prove my theory.  I have only watched a few of your videos but they have been very comforting and informative. Thank you again. I look forward to learning more.

[nikic0825]

Hi group!

My name is Nicole.  I live in Tennessee.  I learned Transcendental Meditation years ago.  I have meditated off and on over the years.  20 mins twice a day is the recommeded amount of time.  I first noticed some slight movements in my head and neck.  I though it was just stress being released.  It felt very nice and relaxing.  My husband use to sneak in and watch my practice because he found in interesting.  I have not been very regular with my practices but within the last year or so, I have had some very interesting developments with my movements.  My arm started moving on their own.  Very flowing and precise movements.  That developed into very specific hand movement which I learned were called kriyas.  Then I started humming and chanting.  I also rock back and forth.  They newest development have been what some call speaking in tongues.  That has been very interesting.  For awhile I will sound asian then it turns into something like a native american chant.  I have also experienced the distinct sound of a bell ringing.  I have not had any visual phenomena.  Now, when I meditate, I just sit down and the movements and vocalizations start almost immediately.  You can imagine how surprising this has been to a southern baptist girl from Tennessee.  I did not grow up in a church where we spoke in tongues.  This have only been afraid briefly from time to time.  The thought that maybe it is a demon has entered my mind.  I should have never watched the exorcist.  I understand why they burned people at the stake though.  It could be quite confusing to one who might observe this.  I have never really felt any kind of evil presence.  It has felt very natural and healing.  I just wanted to talk to others that have experienced the same kinds of things and what there thoughts were on it.  Sorry this is so long winded.  I am just excited to find others who know what I am talking about

[Jhanananda]

Welcome, Nicole, and thank-you for posting your experience with spontaneous movement and speech during meditation, and the charismatic sound.

[lojong1]

I had one hour long shake session on a retreat and felt great afterwards. It was uberweird. I initially thought about suppressing the movement which began as a few big jerks from a pained leg, and actually started to get up, then decided to allow and watch as presently as possible. Arms and legs were twitching several inches every few seconds...extreme sobbing...an ugly scene with nothing dancelike or flowing about it, yet I would welcome the experience again. Two years later and still no repeat. I'll get over it.
There was definitley no great depth to this particular meditation, although I think I was working in the right direction when I made the decision to remain seated through the initial discomfort.

[Jhanananda]

There are a number of explanations for various manifestations of spontaneous movement in a contemplative context.  Those various explanations most probably deal with one or more causes, and there might just be many causes to spontaneous movement in a contemplative context.

Spontaneous movement accompanied by tears within a contemplative context can be caused by releasing years of emotional trauma, which can most definitely occur for the contemplative as he or she moves deeper into the religious experience.

Since you have a background, or interest, in Orthodox Christianity, then you are most probably familiar with St Vitus, who was a desert father in the Coptic Christian movement of the first few centuries.  He apparently had violent kriyas for which he was burned at the stake for by his neighbors who thought he was possessed.

[fqmorris]

I began experiencing kriya simultaneously with a Kundalini awakening.  Both occurred as the result of about 4 months of daily breath-focuses walking meditation.  The kundalini is now constantly awake, feeling the distinct energy flow in my whole body even as I type this, and it does follow, for the most part, the classical descriptions of the left, right, and central channels, and the numerous chakras.  But the background awareness of that energy is different than my experience with it when I stop give myself to dedicated meditation sessions.

When I begin to meditate, I focus solely on the flow of energy.  I make no attempt to control the flow, because it has a mind of its own, and knows where it needs to go.  The kriya begin almost instantly upon starting meditation, usually with movement of my hands and/or feet.  I do these sessions lying on my back. The hands seem to be used for manipulation of the energy, focusing it and moving it.  Sometimes the kriya are strange hand mudras, or flourishing whole arm gestures. Many times I will be directed into very complex or difficult yoga positions. Sometimes my movements resemble Tai Chi.  I do not direct these movements, only allow them and watch them.  But I am completely able to stop them if I wish, but why would I do that?  It is clear to me now that the Kundalini is working a healing and transforming process.

I have found that this experience is understood as a natural part of Bhuddist practice, especially in Tibetan Vajrayana, but it is hidden, an esoteric practice reserved for higher level initiates.  An American named William Bodri wrote a book about this kundalini energy progression called The Little Book of Herculese.  Another book by Master Nan called The Tao of Longevity is also about this.  Unfortunately most American Buddhist frown upon kundalini as just another phenomena that should be ignored.  That kind of attitude is really just a display of ignorance.

[Jhanananda]

I began experiencing kriya simultaneously with a Kundalini awakening.  Both occurred as the result of about 4 months of daily breath-focuses walking meditation. 

Welcome, fqmorris, and thank-you for posting your experience with the religious experience, known as, 'kundalini.'  I am not surprised that you had a Kundalini experience after only 4 months of daily breath-focuses walking meditation, because the religious experience does not take long to occur, one just has to decade the time for daily meditation practice.  Also, breath meditation does seem to give better results than any other meditation technique reported so far.

The kundalini is now constantly awake, feeling the distinct energy flow in my whole body even as I type this, and it does follow, for the most part, the classical descriptions of the left, right, and central channels, and the numerous chakras. 

Becoming aware of the energy flow through the body is just one of many aspects of the religious experience; however, it is good to know that you have found it, and that you are attempting to keep it alive.  There is also sound, vision, taste, smell, and kinesthetic manifestations of the religious experience, which are called 'charisms' in Christianity, and 'jhana-nimitta' in the Pali Canon.

But the background awareness of that energy is different than my experience with it when I stop give myself to dedicated meditation sessions.

When I begin to meditate, I focus solely on the flow of energy.  I make no attempt to control the flow, because it has a mind of its own, and knows where it needs to go. 

This is my experience as well, so I instruct others to just let go and let the charisms do whatever they want, while attending to them.

The kriya begin almost instantly upon starting meditation, usually with movement of my hands and/or feet.  I do these sessions lying on my back. The hands seem to be used for manipulation of the energy, focusing it and moving it.  Sometimes the kriya are strange hand mudras, or flourishing whole arm gestures. Many times I will be directed into very complex or difficult yoga positions. Sometimes my movements resemble Tai Chi.  I do not direct these movements, only allow them and watch them.  But I am completely able to stop them if I wish, but why would I do that?  It is clear to me now that the Kundalini is working a healing and transforming process.

I have had many experiences with spontaneous movements in the 41 years of my daily meditation practice; and we have had many reports of such movements.  I agree, it seems to be best just to let whatever happens happen.

I have found that this experience is understood as a natural part of Bhuddist practice, especially in Tibetan Vajrayana, but it is hidden, an esoteric practice reserved for higher level initiates.  An American named William Bodri wrote a book about this kundalini energy progression called The Little Book of Herculese.  Another book by Master Nan called The Tao of Longevity is also about this.  Unfortunately most American Buddhist frown upon kundalini as just another phenomena that should be ignored.  That kind of attitude is really just a display of ignorance.

Yes, I too found most Buddhist movements shun the various charisms, and those who experience them; and I agree "That kind of attitude is really just a display of ignorance."  But then all religious marginalize their mystics.

Again welcome, and keep in touch.

[fqmorris]

I post this here (kriya thread) because I don't know where a better spot would be.

Being new here, looking around to learn, I see you value highly the term "Mystic."  I haven't found a place here where that term is defined.  From context, it seems descriptive of an outsider's realm, but should be the center, the norm.  So, "mystic" seems to don a robe of rebellion against the mainstream.

On another thought, from your Samadhi thread, it seems I am experiencing jhanas 2 through 4 in recursive waves, but moving to the edge of #5, which I felt briefly last week at the end of a 2 hr session.  That feeling of floating without context was a bit scary, so I fell out of it fast. But the peace of it stayed with me afterwards, and I want to go back there, and not fall out of it so quickly.

I know I can't rush things.  So I just continue.  Sometimes the kundalini is almost painful, but not if I relax in trust.  And the bliss is full body waves of orgasm.  Who knew sex was spiritual?  This bliss/pain cycle keeps going, but is never the same as last time.  It isn't boring, but it would be if it didn't keep moving forward.  I feel fortunate to have landed in this place of practice, and want to go as far as I can.

Thanks for this forum and your perspective.
David Morris