Guidestones

[Jhanananda]

This morning I found a link to Guidestones on Michael Hawkins FaceBook wall.  I found the message to be right on.  I propose the GWV consider funding the construction of these Guidestones to be reproduced precisely on as many continents and nations as possible; because, while offering wise advice, they could be as valuable to future peoples, as the Rosetta Stone was to us in deciphering ancient languages.

Additionally, the time capsule left at each Guidestones should be the major religious works of the world in their original language, and in translation.  We could also leave our own literature in the time capsule.

[Cybermonk]

Aloha to you all,

Well... it's an interesting idea. Consider, until your royalties really start kicking
in, a model could be built more reasonably.  The Romans were able to
accomplish massive structures with the discovery of concrete.
Always... location,location, location should be considered. If the final
construct/cave painting is in the wrong spot, well... a thousand years from
now an archeologist may have a hell of a time keeping some mega corporation
from building a spaceport on top of it.
So it goes,
Kimo

[Jhanananda]

I have been experimenting with making firebrick for my pyrolysis system, which is all about fueling the GWV.  The pyrolysis system needs high temperature insulation, and firebrick is high temperature insulation, but it costs about $5 per brick, which will cost about $1000 to insulate the pyrolysis system, which is out of budget.  Thus, the reason why I have been experimenting with making firebrick.

It has occurred to me all along that instead of making a large set of standing stones at great expense which could all to easily become a focus for vandalism, as the Guidestones have become,

and the recently blown-up Bamiyan Buddha statues,

I thought a more enduring means of documenting the existence of the GWV, and the path of the mystic, is to make firebricks and ceramic tiles that are small and could last for 10s of thousands, if not millions of years, in the archaeological record. 

It is the Indus Valley Civilization, which is also known as the Harappan Civilization, was a Bronze Age civilization (3300–1300 BCE; mature period 2600–1900 BCE) in the northwestern region[1] of the Indian subcontinent,[2][3] consisting of what is now mainly present-day Pakistan and northwest India.

It is most notably the tiles left behind by that civilization that have lasted so well.

And, it is this tile that has gotten me thinking of building an enduring literature that the GWV could leave behind.

So, how do we fund the making of the tiles or brick-based GWV enduring literature of enlightenment?  Easy.  Since firebricks cost $5 ea. then we can simply learn how to make firebricks, go into production making them, and sell them at less than market value.  People will purchase our firebricks because they are cheap, and they will not care that an image will be impressed upon each firebrick.

The more firebrick we sell and distribute in a large enough area, the more we insure the durability of the enlightened message of the GWV, because firebrick will last nearly forever, if it is not ground up.

[Cybermonk]

Hi Jeffrey,

A great idea! Of course it begs the question; What symbols would
convey the essence of GWV? 

Perhaps the brinks could be  a locator map, pointing to a time
capsule, perhaps buried in a number of locations. The capsules
could contain some  form of data storage device. Do dvd's
have a long life expectancy?

Another storage device could be the external usb thumb drives.
Their cost is somewhat low. Their durability?

Perhaps developing the treasure hunting style could work
if the bricks had a latitude/longitude of the capsules stamped
on them.

Dispersing the brinks by selling them at religious fairs,
and other points where potential mystics would collect
could be one idea, but perhaps too complex.

Also... if the capsules are too easily found, it may
not impress the importance of the data. Too hard to
find and well... the point is obvious.

Are we having fun yet?
Kimo

[violet]

I think clay tablets are a good idea. They seem to resist well over time and they do not need a machine and electricity to read it. Like a DVD for example – try finding a DVD player in 1000 years and one that still works... We already have trouble finding the reading machines for some of our outdated data storage devices. And storage devices are often fragile themselves. Even if the tablets break, they can be pieced together again and the message is still readable.

I'm assuming the message on the tiles would condense the GWV literature in short messages and in a language easy to understand or at least decipher.

Bricks seem more brittle though...

[Cybermonk]

aloha Violet,
Good points! I still have some 4 track media. Ha.
Kimo

[Jhanananda]

I think clay tablets are a good idea. They seem to resist well over time and they do not need a machine and electricity to read it. Like a DVD for example – try finding a DVD player in 1000 years and one that still works... We already have trouble finding the reading machines for some of our outdated data storage devices. And storage devices are often fragile themselves. Even if the tablets break, they can be pieced together again and the message is still readable.

I'm assuming the message on the tiles would condense the GWV literature in short messages and in a language easy to understand or at least decipher.

I agree with you we could not hope for any technology to survive a century, let alone millennia.  We also cannot expect languages to survive millennia.  There are books and other writing in now long dead languages that have yet to be deciphered, and as we have found, even with thousands of years of scholarship, the translations of the Bible and the Pali cannon can no longer be relied upon.

So, I was thinking of an iconographic language system, not as complex as hieroglyphs, which are surely not understood today to the point that the subtle nuances of the mystic can be understood.  However, the art and iconography of Egyptian mysticism is readily available to the mystic without needing a priest or a scholar to translate them for us.  This is what I have in mind for a tile-based system of "literature of the mystic."

However, if you investigate the Digital Ceramic Printing Systems of the company Enduring Images you will see that there are very sophisticated technologies now that can render an image as complex as a photograph, and writing, to ceramic media.  It would be possible using these technologies to render whole pages of the Pali canon phonetically written in several languages, and translated into those same languages. 

If there were several of these "Guidestones" placed on every continent, then it could serve as a means of preserving key suttas. The ones I would choose are the Maha-satipatthana Sutta (DN 22) and the Samaññaphala Sutta (DN 2), because both suttas contain the 4 Noble Truths, and the Noble Eightfold Path, and show how practice (magga) leads to attainment (phala).

Bricks seem more brittle though...

Yes, bricks and tiles are brittle, but it is the bricks and tiles that survive every culture that made them; whereas, paper and ink may not.

[violet]

That all sounds good to me.

However, if you investigate the Digital Ceramic Printing Systems of the company Enduring Images you will see that there are very sophisticated technologies now that can render an image as complex as a photograph, and writing, to ceramic media.  It would be possible using these technologies to render whole pages of the Pali canon phonetically written in several languages, and translated into those same languages. 

If the GWV tiles made by this image transfer technology were protected from the elements in a time capsule, as mentioned, I think that would be perfect.

[Jhanananda]

That all sounds good to me.

If the GWV tiles made by this image transfer technology were protected from the elements in a time capsule, as mentioned, I think that would be perfect.

Yes, I agree that the combination of a time capsule, plus Digital Ceramic Printing, could be very effective to preserve mystical literature.  On the other hand, I like the idea of the message not being so hard to find, as Kimo suggested.  Perhaps it would be best to both display the ceramic tiles on the surface embedded in a north facing wall; as well as hidden below the surface in a time capsule that will only be found by future archaeologists, which would only happen during a time of relative intellectual and religious freedom, as we have now.

However, history proves that we cannot depend upon intellectual and religious freedom continuing indefinitely, because history shows all cultures collapse into political, theological and intellectual conservatism.  And, it is this inevitable collapse into political, theological and intellectual conservatism that inspires me to criticize the contemplative and religious movements of today; and to encourage a community of contemplatives to come together to support the central premises of the GWV, which is practice (magga) leads to attainment (phala).  If a contemplatives community does not come forth to support that practice (magga) leads to attainment (phala), then when the future collapse of western civilization occurs, the contemplatives of the future are likely to find themselves being burned at the stake once again.

[Cybermonk]

Aloha Cybermonks,

So... I've been working on my sweet potato patch and a thought struck
me.
Perhaps a good place for capsules would be at the junctions of the Ley
lines. It would establish a grid, which may survive the eons.
Also... perhaps the stones would absorb whatever is pulsing away
in the grid.
If these locations would work, then the quest is on, well, once the data
is distilled and the medium is selected, plus a bunch of other stuff that
always pops up.
So it goes.
Kimo

[Jhanananda]

I have continued my research and development on making firebricks.  Lately I have had some successful firebrick making.

Firebricks made with more ash and less plaster came out harder from sun drying, and ready to fire

Firebricks made with more ash and less plaster came out harder after firing

They were all successful and were fired for only 2 hours

Firebricks made with no plaster, but just wood ash with sodium silicate at 10% sun dried harder than the above bricks

Ready to fire

Firebricks made with no plaster, but just wood ash with sodium silicate at 10% after firing for only 2 hours were harder than the above bricks

They all came out successfully

I spent some time this morning figuring out how many firebricks I need for my pyrolysis project.  It turns out I need 300 bricks.  At $5/brick that comes to $1500 US to purchase the bricks from a discount supplier.  Whereas, if I make my own firebricks it will take about $300 worth of sodium silicate and a fair amount of wood ash to make them.  There is a local bar only a block away that has a fire every night, so I plan to stop in today to see if they will let me have their wood ash.

Apparently ash disposal is a touchy subject for waste management, so turning wood ash into firebricks might be a way to make money in both directions.  People pay us to take their ash away, then they buy our firebricks.

Along with the collapsing economy we also have an ever growing global population.  Traditionally the population is thinned by war, starvation, plagues, suicide, etc.  I imagine that the GWV could offer an alternative to war, starvation, plagues, suicide, etc.

The surplus global population could be occupied by taking up the contemplative life, while also being occupied with some money making venture.  They could be housed in eco-friendly housing, that are sustained by eco-friendly gardens, and employed making highly efficient eco-friendly insulation, such as making firebricks from the mountains of ash that power plants produce.  Each of those bricks could be impressed with the GWV logo, which would produce an indelible Guidestone upon the archaeological record in shear quantity.

[Jhanananda]

One of my inspirations for a GWV guidestone has been the Rosetta Stone.  Ever since I first heard of the Rosetta Stone, when I was a child, I thought it to be a powerful way to insure that the wisdom of the past is preserved for the future, by providing a key to its decipherment in other languages, that might just survive better than the original language that wisdom was composed in.  Thus a GWV guidestone would be written in several key languages, and writing systems.

[Jhanananda]

In a private message to me from Michel he had thought that the Noble Eightfold Path could be reproduced in some kind of durable medium.  I think it is a good idea.  Perhaps the GWV will consider a reproduction of the Noble Eightfold Path in some kind of durable medium, and market it, or give it away, if there is sufficient funding to do so.

Durable media:
Platinum, gold, silver, copper, bronze, brass, beryllium, quartz, cut stone, ceramics, fire bricks, archival papers.

The precious metals: Platinum, gold, silver, are certainly durable, but all too easily stolen and melted down; nonetheless, the wealthy are inclined to purchase and reserve a plaque made from one of these metals.

Cut stone is certainly durable; however, it is commonly taken from one building and used to construct another one.  Nonetheless, it could be attractive to the wealthy in a monumental art piece that could stand up against erosion for 10s of thousands of years.

The engineering metals: copper, bronze, brass, beryllium, quartz, are very durable, but have sufficient value that they are likely to be turned into something else later.  Nonetheless, the middle classes are inclined to purchase and reserve a plaque made from one of these metals.

Ceramics are very durable, and have no real intrinsic value, so they are likely to reside undisturbed in the archaeological record for 10s of thousands of years.

Fire brick is durable, but does not standup well to abrasion.  They are also not fine enough grain for detailed work, such as is required for language.

Archival papers are within the means of the poor, are easily reproduced, and can last for thousands of years if carefully preserved in a ceramic jar in a cave undisturbed.

[Michel]

Very interesting discussion, Jhananda. It is interesting to see how you've researched, and experimented with the materials required to preserve the Dhamma for the future. You have so much knowledge in so many fields. You're a Jack of all trades, and pretty damn good in all of them. It never fails to amaze me. 

Siddhartha Gautama taught that all things are of an impermanent nature. When time has passed, today's great mountains will be reduced to nothing but grains of sand blowing in the wind in the valleys of other newly formed great mountains. The perception of time is a strange thing. I have been thinking about this recently.

[Jhanananda]

I agree about the impermanence of all things, on the other hand Siddhartha Gautama seems to have made an effort to preserve his teaching in the form of getting his followers to recite them, which were later written down.  We could make some effort to preserve the teaching prior to the collapse of mountains into valleys, and the rise of valleys into mountains.

One of the ideas I had was a wall that was covered with ceramic tiles that had the core principles of the dhamma glazed onto their surface in several languages.  Or, even more permanent, cut it into stones and arrange the stones into a wall, or a Stone Henge-like alignment, but, as you said, "it all takes money." 

So, my plan is to develop some products and write some books, and perhaps in my lifetime there will be enough money to preserve the teaching in stone, or even better, in humans with attainment.