Spiritual Crisis, Sleep Disturbance, Lucid Dreaming and the Non-Material Realms

[Jhanananda]

The world of a mystic comes crashing down, and leaves us with no beliefs, no opinions, no structure, and foundation to stand upon.  We fall through space, like a cottonwood seed drifting on the morning breeze.

[Michael Hawkins]

The world of a mystic comes crashing down, and leaves us with no beliefs, no opinions, no structure, and foundation to stand upon.  We fall through space, like a cottonwood seed drifting on the morning breeze.

All that's left, I'm finding, is bliss, joy and ecstasy.  Everything else is painfully beside the point.

[Jhanananda]

All that's left, I'm finding, is bliss, joy and ecstasy.  Everything else is painfully beside the point.

That is what will make you beyond training (aseka), an Arahatta (one who has attained the deathless), amatta, if you are not already.

[Cybermonk]

Hi Michael,

I'm a bit of an odd duck, in that I personally believe you can have
it all. I see myself heading to a position in existence, where I can
walk the halls of heaven, or hell, as it suits me.

To obtain a few steps, I've added enough materialism to sustain
this body. I've also come to the realization that the "letting go"
of this dimension, while I have this precious chance to use this
body, should be tempered with the fact that when I die, all this
material will return to some other form. So that goal is a given.

So... knowing this, I value this time I have and use it to seek
my goals. A being I knew, committed suicide, his thought was
to rush the evolution, by removing all materialism. He was
successful in doing that, however, it was only a bit later in time,
when someone close to him, not a mystic, said; "here's what
he wanted, this teaching would have given him the chance to
evolve". So it goes! The re-cycle of nature wil perhaps give him
the chance to grow again.

I understand the position you've expressed. It possibly started
working on you the day after you cashed your last paycheck.
Now, what you have perhaps has dwindled to the point of
not having any material support. Basically your selecting to
be homeless.  A man has somewhat different priorities than a
woman, as you know. A woman who would purposely select
a homeless life, is rare, in my opinion. I've been there when
the woman of 30 years, turned to me, the so called "mystic',
and said; "get a job"! She now is remarried. So am I now,
after I "got a job". Ha!! So it goes.

Perhaps this may be the time to learn how to survive from
Jeffrey. It would be a good learning. He's got it balanced
well. 

Well... there's my unasked for story. Perhaps you will
find some value in it. Personally, I try to seek the true
essence of it all. A trick I use is I only pay attention to
the action of existence. When a being postures as evolved
by words, yet observing their actions show a different
story, well... perhaps they are ignoring the real story for
a reason. So it goes.
Later,
Kimo
yet is consumed by

[Jhanananda]

Hi Michael,

I'm a bit of an odd duck, in that I personally believe you can have
it all. I see myself heading to a position in existence, where I can
walk the halls of heaven, or hell, as it suits me.

Later,
Kimo
yet is consumed by

The problem with this premise, Kimo, is there is not a single genuine mystic in history who supports it; however, every fraudulent priest does.  The truth is, the righteous life is the disciplined contemplative life, and becoming holy is becoming a mystic; and getting there requires letting go of everything. 

Will everyone do that?  No, they are all too lazy, addicted and too deluded. 

Will Michael Hawkins and a few other get there?  Yes, but they will have to not listen to your deluded advice.

[Michael Hawkins]

I've learned to follow self-arising bliss, joy and ecstasy.  I've learned how to build my life around a meditation practice that leads to saturation in bliss, joy and ecstasy.

This does not automatically mean homelessness.

It just means that external desires do not form attachments like they once did -- and attachments fall away.

Yet, life goes on, supported in different ways.

I have a wife.  We have a small, fledgling business that allows us to get outdoors, travel a little and ride the ups and downs of a precarious economy.  We pay bills.  We love to disc golf, hike, travel, read and eat, among other things.  Love abounds.

Whether on the cushion or off, I spend my days being meditated.  The current crisis in my life has to do with navigating the world as self-identity and attachments come crashing down.  To say that I'm falling headlong into homelessness because of this seems just a little premature.

[violet]

Thank you, Michael and Jhananda, for sharing this with us.

[Michael Hawkins]

I'm happy that you are here, Violet....

[Cybermonk]

Aloha to you all,

Dear friends... always I've used the disclaimer that "my
opinion is my own". I do encourage beings to put aside
their posturing for ego and look in the mirror of their
actions.

If perhaps they find passions abounding, perhaps the
so called "mystic", is deluding him/her self. Why?
Possibly to sustain their physical body, perhaps to
sustain love through some kind of media, who knows
for sure, perhaps only the individual.

Perhaps I too am deluding myself, in fact, I'm sure of it.
Ha,he! Since I foster the "oneness of creation" viewpoint,
 I  cannot discount the "oneness" part of it and profess
a viewpoint which divides oneness, into pretty little pigeon
holes of existence. If I draw a line, I've immediately
entered into two sides. Hell/heaven, positive/negative,
man/woman and so on. To me, this is obvious and as I
experience other's of so called, "higher" existence, sooner
or later their actions will show their true selves. So it goes!

One of the first actions I look for in this quest of mine to
be, "all I can be", is the "judgement". So... as I slowly
study the ancients, immortals new/old, from my self
imposed viewpoint of oneness, I look for their judgement
call. At that point I can expect an agenda. Perhaps its a
good one, something like GWV aspires to, perhaps its a
greedy one, something like the Banksters aspire to,
suddenly the "dream" is off and running. HaaHeee!

Michael.... I'm happy your actions are kicking back enough
energy to make your life interesting. I seldom share my
personal life, especially using a media that's connected
world wide, never to be erased, ok, possibly never, and
one which is obviously always scrutinized by beings seeking
power over us all. Computers are mankind's  new neural
network, perhaps we will evolve beyond destruction with
their help. It's a hope of mine. i also can see us all going
out with a bang, leaving us with a world like in the old
movie, "Terminator" starring ole Arnold Swaggererger. Ha!

Ok... I need to switch to my farmers hat, since my chickens
are calling from the "oneness of creation" and have
made a judgement on their keepers, which is "feed me now,
human". Also my new potatoe patch I'm creating, wants
more energy applied from the human, plus the refitting
of the trailer needs its next coat of preventative stuff.
Ah... heck with it... its Saturday, my judgement call is
to fix breakfast, ok, after I feed the birds. Ha!

Party on Cybermonks,
Kimo

 

[Jhanananda]

Aloha to you all,

Dear friends... always I've used the disclaimer that "my
opinion is my own". I do encourage beings to put aside
their posturing for ego and look in the mirror of their
actions.

Well, I think that is a good idea.  It is what I mean when I use the term "self-aware."  You should try it sometime.

If perhaps they find passions abounding, perhaps the
so called "mystic", is deluding him/her self. Why?
Possibly to sustain their physical body, perhaps to
sustain love through some kind of media, who knows
for sure, perhaps only the individual.

Well, religion is full of frauds, and it has little evidence of genuine mystics.  It is; however, the genuine mystics who are authentic, and free of delusions and passions, but the deluded are too attached to their own delusions to let them go.  This is why the deluded bare little fruit of attainment; whereas the genuine mystics bare ample fruit of attainment.  As Jesus said, "We know a tree by its fruit."

Perhaps I too am deluding myself, in fact, I'm sure of it.
Ha,he! Since I foster the "oneness of creation" viewpoint,
 I  cannot discount the "oneness" part of it and profess
a viewpoint which divides oneness, into pretty little pigeon
holes of existence. If I draw a line, I've immediately
entered into two sides. Hell/heaven, positive/negative,
man/woman and so on. To me, this is obvious and as I
experience other's of so called, "higher" existence, sooner
or later their actions will show their true selves. So it goes!

Well, this is part of your delusions.  There is no creation, because there is no creator.  So, there is no benevolent being pulling any strings.  There is also no black and white domain.  It is all shades of gray.

If there is generosity, then it is from one being to the next.  If their is wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony, then rotten fruit is manifesting.

One of the first actions I look for in this quest of mine to
be, "all I can be", is the "judgement". So... as I slowly
study the ancients, immortals new/old, from my self
imposed viewpoint of oneness, I look for their judgement
call. At that point I can expect an agenda. Perhaps its a
good one, something like GWV aspires to, perhaps its a
greedy one, something like the Banksters aspire to,
suddenly the "dream" is off and running. HaaHeee!

Party on Cybermonks,
Kimo

Well, it sounds like you have trouble unpacking your belief systems, as well as supporting an authentic contemplative tradition.  Don't forget when you are burning on the stake that you had a chance to build an authentic contemplative community, but you just could not let go of your precious delusions.

[Cybermonk]

Hi GWV,

Thank you for your comments. Jeffrey, I will take your advice and
practice my "self awareness". I guess its time for me to
move on. I sometimes step on toes with my pragmatic
viewpoint, so if that's happened, sorry to all you Cybermonks.
Haaaheeeee ho!

Its been fun blogging with the GWV.  Sometimes I even
found a nugget of info to further my journey. Hopefully
GWV's interpretation of the way, will continue to find others
who are looking for a western viewpoint of being a mystic.
Personally... I've found the data very helpful.

Well... , I'm off to practice the Tao.
Lately, its been a gold mine for me. Aloha to you all.
Party on Cybermonks,
Kimo

[Jhanananda]

Hello dear friend and mentor Jeffrey,

I wanted to run something by you, and to share our dialogue in hopes that others may benefit.

For a good many years now, I've been a little disappointed in myself, in that, despite all these hours and hours of meditation -- getting up before dawn, finding time at midday, then coasting off to sleep each night -- that I've experienced only very brief and sporadic nighttime meditation phenomena.  I have felt somewhat hypocritical about this -- if I am one of your longest-running meditation students going back to 2002 or so, it seems like I should be surfing the non-material planes each and every night, and this has not been the case.  Granted, I've not kept a dream journal, and I've not followed through on some other instructions for invoking the non-material planes -- but, on the other hand, I HAVE gone into fairly deep material jhana states on the way into sleep, and I wake up each morning in deep saturation.  To date, however, my experiences with the non-material planes have come in the context of retreat, with only the occasional dream lucidity that is carried back into waking life.

Over the past month, however, I perceive that something is changing.

I've always been a very, very deep sleeper.  For 49 years, I could count on falling asleep almost immediately after hitting the pillow, and (aside from having to pee once in a while) waking up six or seven hours later, ready for another day.

Recently, however, I've been falling straight into exhausted and deep sleep at about ten o'clock... only to wake up a couple hours later, thinking that it is five or six o'clock, when in reality it is midnight or twelve-thirty.  Oftentimes I'm unable to get back to sleep -- the kundalini is roaring, and the body is simply not interested in going back to sleep.  There have been a few nights when I literally could not get back to sleep, and I've had to face the following day without having rejuvenated my batteries.

I've heard your voice in my head on these nights, suggesting that I get out of bed to go meditate.  ... but this morning, it strikes me that the quality of sleep I'm getting these days is different than before.  After the initial drop off into deep sleep, I am regularly waking up and either not being able to sleep again, or I just sort of skim the surface of sleep for hours at a time. This is happening more and more frequently. Rather than pathologize what's happening, however, I intuitively understand that my being is more prepared than ever for working on the non-material planes.  I'm using this "skimming" time to explore the in-between states.  I've not really accomplished any level of mastery -- but it feels like there is an opening that was not there before.

Also, during waking life, I am more and more drawn into various samadhi states -- I find myself closing my eyes, feeling intense kundalini coursing through my body, and surrendering to it.  More and more, I'm feeling as though I'm more IN meditation than out.

Given the transformation that is going on in me, I would very much appreciate any feedback and/or instruction that you'd be willing to provide, Jeffrey.  I feel as though my worldly ambitions are more dissolved than ever, and that surrender is more complete than ever -- there is no going back.

It just so happens that I reviewed your inquiry here again.  If I could help you with these few more words, then I will.  I too find that I have more energy for meditation at night than during the day for the last 40 years.  I too awake in the middle of the night.  I too take it as an opportunity to meditate.  I have done so for more than 40 years. To me, this is the life of the mystic. 

I found we just need to reorient our life to accommodate this new life style.  When we do, then I found it very transformative.  Perhaps you did as well.  I did find the meditation/dream journal does help.  Perhaps you could add it to your daily regimen.

[Alexander]

Great thread! Missed it when it was new...

[Cal]

...so thats what happened to cybermonk. 

I too found this thread interesting.

[Jhanananda]

People come and go from this forum, as well as from other contemplative communities (sanghas).  Generally the contemplative communities that support deep meditation tend to have few followers, because deep meditation requires a high level of self-awareness, which few people are willing to exercise. 

This self-awareness often times necessitates unpacking our belief systems.  Often those belief systems are held precious, so we resist dropping them, and often we feel anger toward a person who exposes our flawed thinking.  So, the sangha of the GWV is not likely to ever be large.