The Noble Eightfold Path

[Jhanananda]

Good work, Michel, Just a reminder to all, that the Seven Factors of Enlightenment mostly come from jhana attainment.

[Michel]

“1Bhikkhus, just as various winds blow in the sky—easterly winds, westerly winds, northerly winds, southerly winds, dusty winds and dustless winds, cold winds and hot winds, gentle winds and strong winds —so too, when a bhikkhu develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path, then for him the four establishments of mindfulness go to fulfilment by development; the four right strivings go to fulfilment by development; the four bases for spiritual power go to fulfilment by development; the five spiritual faculties go to fulfilment by development; the five powers go to fulfilment by development; the seven factors of enlightenment go to fulfilment by development.
“2And how is this so? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops right view ... right concentration, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way, bhikkhus, that when a bhikkhu sn.v.50 develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path, then for him the four establishments of mindfulness … the seven factors of enlightenment go to fulfilment by development.

So, when one develops and cultivates the N8P, all the "Seven Sets of Thirty-seven Qualities" are fulfilled. See discussion on the 37 qualities here:
http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,578.0.html

So, it is very important to make sure that one masters and understands how to practice the N8P. It's all there.

[Michel]

27 "Bhikkhus, for one who holds wrong view one of two destinations is to be expected: hell or the animal realm."

28  Bhikkhus, for one who holds right view one of two destinations is to be expected: the deva realm or the human realm.

29 (9) Bhikkhus, for an immoral person there are two receptacles: hell or the animal realm. For a virtuous person, there are two receptacles: the deva realm or the human realm."

These suttas chilled me to the bone. Most people that I know well do not have Right View. Perhaps they are at times virtuous, at times complete assholes.

Are these suttas a true reflection of reality? Hell must be a highly populated place with heaven being less so.

[Michel]

I've gone into more detail on Right Mindfulness. I think this is a more accurate summary. I based this on Jhananda's translation of the Mahasatipatthana sutta, DN-22, and what we discussed up-thread. Please offer your suggestions for any improvements.

7. Right Mindfulness and Self-awareness (samma-sati) - The Four Foundations/Corner Stones of Mindfulness:
1) Mindful contemplation/awareness of the body (kaya): breath meditation,  the four postures, clear comprehension of bodily activities, anatomical contemplations, the four elements, the cemetery contemplations
2) Mindful contemplation/awareness of sensations (vedana): pleasant, unpleasant, neutral sensations (the triggers for greed, hatred and delusion)
3) Mindful contemplation/awareness of mind states (citta): greed/non-greed; hatred/non-hatred; delusion/non-delusion; restricted/scattered; enlarged/not enlarged; surpassed/unsurpassed; absorbed/ecstatic (jhana)/not absorbed/not ecstatic; liberated/un-liberated
4) Mindful contemplation/awareness/investigation of the Five Dhammas (dhammas):
The Five Hindrances - awareness of their arising and passing away; understanding what causes a hindrance to arise and pass away; and how a future arising of a hindrance can be prevented.
The Five Clinging Aggregates - seen as arising and passing away; that they are  impermanent, suffering & non-self.
The Six-sense Bases - awareness of any fetter generated by them; that they are impermanent, suffering & non-self.
The Seven Factors of Enlightenment - to be developed (mostly come from the attainment of jhana)
The Four Noble Truths - to be utterly understood.

[Jhanon]

“1Bhikkhus, just as various winds blow in the sky—easterly winds, westerly winds, northerly winds, southerly winds, dusty winds and dustless winds, cold winds and hot winds, gentle winds and strong winds —so too, when a bhikkhu develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path, then for him the four establishments of mindfulness go to fulfilment by development; the four right strivings go to fulfilment by development; the four bases for spiritual power go to fulfilment by development; the five spiritual faculties go to fulfilment by development; the five powers go to fulfilment by development; the seven factors of enlightenment go to fulfilment by development.
“2And how is this so? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops right view ... right concentration, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way, bhikkhus, that when a bhikkhu sn.v.50 develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path, then for him the four establishments of mindfulness … the seven factors of enlightenment go to fulfilment by development.

So, when one develops and cultivates the N8P, all the "Seven Sets of Thirty-seven Qualities" are fulfilled. See discussion on the 37 qualities here:
http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,578.0.html

So, it is very important to make sure that one masters and understands how to practice the N8P. It's all there.

And the N8P culminates in jhana, yes? Some call it "right absorption" or "right concentration." We are told this often--reminded by Jhananda--aren't we?

But, then we have to wonder why there is all this 37 this, that, and the other thing. In my experience of daily jhana of at least 3rd jhana each session, I am finding it is possible to be in jhana and yet perhaps it couldn't be considered "right absorption." For example, I have had a few 3rd jhana experiences where I fell into the sometimes very tempting sexual fantasies. Interestingly, I am aware in that moment that I am not practicing rightly. That I'm grasping. Because it has a distinctly unsatisfying feeling to it.

I don't know all these 37 qualities. Certainly not memorized, at least. But when I read through them just now, with many of them I was taken back to a memory of the jhana experience in which that quality was being mindfully observed. They were not all present in just one jhana--not to my knowledge, at least. But it seems somehow jhana leads to these qualities naturally.

I'm not saying we can throw out any kind of studying. But I suppose I am saying that jhana puts all of this into perspective. And reviewing the teachings after jhana provides a special kind of confirmation. It's like doing something right, without realizing until someone points it out.

Actually, it's more like referencing a map. You see you've traveled more than you thought, and at the same time see what is yet to come. And in that moment, you see your location on the map.

Maybe the wrong absorption I described is actually still right absorption, because I realized it's unsatisfying nature.

[Jhanon]

I'm sorry if that was confusing. I admit I have noticed I am a poor communicator in comparison to others here.

So, I'll just say thank you to Michel for always bringing me back to the suttas and original teachings. For putting this together in one central location, and not an exhaustingly long Thanissaro Bhikku book I have been avoiding ("Wings to Awakening.")

Well done. You have helped me gain confidence I needed. I hope I'll be similarly helpful to you in the future.

[Michel]

I'm sorry if that was confusing. I admit I have noticed I am a poor communicator in comparison to others here.

Well done. You have helped me gain confidence I needed. I hope I'll be similarly helpful to you in the future.

You're doing fine, Jhanon. I always read what you have to say because at times you come up with some real gems. So it is I that thank you. I also find it's a struggle for me to write clearly. I'm a dreadful communicator. It's painful at times. So you are not alone.

So, I'll just say thank you to Michel for always bringing me back to the suttas and original teachings. For putting this together in one central location, and not an exhaustingly long Thanissaro Bhikku book I have been avoiding ("Wings to Awakening.")

I went through that book and it was the most painful book reading experience of my life. It was just so exhausting to read his stuff.  In the end I didn't even know what he was trying to say. Maybe that's just me. I learn much more from reading the suttas. There you begin to see how all the pieces of the Dhamma fit together. You find clues here and there.

I've arrived at the conclusion that the 7 sets of 37 qualities are just a different way of arranging the N8P. Pretty much all of the factors of the 37 qualities are factors of the N8P. The building blocks can be arranged in many different ways to suit a teaching. Now I could be wrong. I will reflect on this. Do you agree, Jhananda?

[Jhanananda]

Hello, Michel, your interpretation of the Noble Eightfold path seems to be right on.  We just need to remember the competent cook metaphor, that in addition to all that you mentioned, we still need to be mindful of the charisms (jhana-nimitta). While this may be a hair-spliting detail, I am still not out of Sedona, AZ, so the threat to my survival is very real.  Love to all.

Hell must be a highly populated place with heaven being less so.

I hate to disappoint anyone, but this is hell, and the only way out is the N8P.

And the N8P culminates in jhana, yes? Some call it "right absorption" or "right concentration." We are told this often--reminded by Jhananda--aren't we?

Correct, Jhanon, the N8P is all about getting to jhana.  Anyone who does not get this, is someone who is clueless.

[Jhanon]

Hahahahahaha! Oh goodness. I've been reading some of your one liners after having an excellent meditation, remaining saturated in 2nd or 3rd jhana as I read, and it's like suddenly I see things you say as hilarious.

For example, on the 37 thread, Michel made a comment about how the North country and South country get an equal dose of suffering. And you simply said "This is surely hell." Hahahahaha! Normally I would see that, I suppose, from a sad perspective. But for some reason, being saturated this heavily and feeling free from the hell---it's just made those comments of yours hilarious. Kind of like if we were observing a practice session of some sports players, before choosing who would be on the team, and you just turned to me and said "We're fucked."

Okay. Forgive my language. I wanted to illustrate that point.

Thanks for the kind words, Michel.

Stay alive, Jhananda. You can play with the kitties soon enough

[Jhanon]

I guess I unintentionally saw your comments as sadistic or whatever the term is.

But now I'm starting to think you're making jokes quite often. It's just the perspective from which you are making them isn't shared by very many humans.

Was the "playing with the kitties (cougars)" and "this is surely hell" said in good humor? Or were you just reminding us to practice?.....or both!?

[Jhanananda]

No, I was not making a joke, or being sadistic, or sarcastic, but I do wish to encourage people to become saturated in the 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi).  However, no one will pay your bills when you are enlightened, so you will still have to chop wood and carry water, and do the laundry, and clean the house, while keeping one step ahead of the predators, and the devout.

[Tad]

This thread is undoubtedly among the best of the best on the forum. So I wanted to revive it. Thanks to all contributors.

[Jhanananda]

Thank you, Tad. From my perspective the Noble Eightfold Path is a brilliant description of the path to enlightenment; however, it has been hijacked when Samadhi is interpreted as "concentration" and not understood as 8 stages of altered states of consciousness that are characterized by bliss, joy and ecstasy.