Author Topic: Who become devas?  (Read 4753 times)

Alexander

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Who become devas?
« on: April 17, 2013, 08:03:47 PM »
Hoping you could explain something to me Jhanananda.

As far as our cosmology goes we have:
(1) The sense realm with hell, animals, and humans
(2) The form realm with asuras, and some devas
(3) The formless realm with immaterial devas

In regard to our human world and where we can go if we practice the Dharma:

Steam-enterers - return to the human world
Once-returners - return to the human world once more
Nonreturners - reborn in the pure abodes (but -not- the other parts of the form & formless realms?)

As we know the pure abodes are a unique place where arahantship is possible outside the human world.

So my question is who exactly become the devas in the form and formless realms? Since nonreturners are reborn in the pure abodes, who become the asuras, immaterial devas and so on, who the Buddha says will eventually exhaust their good karma and be reborn in the lower realms?
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Jhanananda

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Re: Who become devas?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 04:16:48 AM »
Hoping you could explain something to me Jhanananda.

As far as our cosmology goes we have:
(1) The sense realm with hell, animals, and humans
(2) The form realm with asuras, and some devas
(3) The formless realm with immaterial devas
Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity share the concept of three worlds: Here, above and below.

The Asuras are demons, they populate the underworld.  The Sanskrit term 'Asura' is derived from the Aserians; who concurred India about 2000 years BCE.  They were Arabic people. Asians tend to conflate all Europeans with Asuras.

The Sanskrit term 'deva' is used in the same way we use the term 'angel.'  Both terms refer to beings who reside in a heavenly realm, which is characterized by bliss, joy and ecstasy.  So, when we experience bliss, joy and ecstasy, when in jhana, then we are approaching heavenly domains.

The term "form realm" comes from rupa (form, or material).  The term 'realm' is 'loca' in Sanskrit and 'ayatana' in Pali. 

The term "formless realm" comes from a-rupa (formless, or immaterial).  The term 'realm' is 'loca' in Sanskrit and 'ayatana' in Pali.

Both the devas and the asuras reside in the immaterial domains, a-rupa, but the asuras reside in the lower immaterial realms, and the devas reside in the upper immaterial realms.
In regard to our human world and where we can go if we practice the Dharma:

Steam-enterers - return to the human world
Once-returners - return to the human world once more
Nonreturners - reborn in the pure abodes (but -not- the other parts of the form & formless realms?)

As we know the pure abodes are a unique place where arahantship is possible outside the human world.

So my question is who exactly become the devas in the form and formless realms? Since nonreturners are reborn in the pure abodes, who become the asuras, immaterial devas and so on, who the Buddha says will eventually exhaust their good karma and be reborn in the lower realms?
In my experience this earth domain is a hell plane.  We know it is a hell plane because a place where children and mystics are abused; whereas musicians, actors, and athletes are treated like super stars, can only be hell.

Upon death those who did not lead a righteous life go to hell and become demons (asuras).

Those who led a righteous life go to heaven and become devas (angels).

A righteous life is a rigorous, disciplined, self-aware, contemplative life that bears the fruit of attainment.

Those who master the 4th jhana are freed of all craving, so they are freed of all hindrances, fetters, sins, or whatever term you like to use for addictive behavior; thus they are the arahatts.  They are free to traverse all planes when they are called upon.  They may chose to return to the earth plane in human form to help the demons here evolve into devas and arahatts by leading a righteous life.  These arahatts are the mystics who come from age to age to re-awaken the contemplative life, the righteous life, for the few who will hear the call, and live the lifestyle that will free them from this hell.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 12:12:57 AM by Jhanananda »
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