The music of Emily Maguire

[Michel]

Jhananda:

Emily Maguire's lyrics and history show that she has at least some random religious experiences, which might have been misinterpreted by the psychiatric community as psychosis.  So, at this point I would say, until she learns to control the experience, then she is a "natural mystic," which means she exists on the fringe between a mystic and a normal.  This would also be true for Lucinda Williams, and other singer-song-writers with exceptional talent and genius, and who's writing indicates a surreal or altered state, as is indicated by the songs Woke Up - Emily Maguire and What If?

Interesting. Hopefully one day these two magnificent women will someday meet somebody like you to help them realize their potential.

[Jhanananda]

This morning I was skimming through more of Emily Maguire's music videos on YouTube.  I found the lyrics for Emily Maguire - Over The Waterfall very interesting support for my Emily Maguire is a proto-mystic premise.
Lyrics

I bet you don’t hear a million voices ringing in your head

This often happens to a contemplative who begins to become charismatic.  They start hearing the charismatic sounds, but their mind is still active, so it tries to interpret those sounds as voices.  It is best to get to the 3rd stage of the religious experience, where one gains a deep level of equanimity so that the charisms are just raw sensation, which the mind does not attempt to interpret, because it has become still.

I bet you don’t see symbolic meaning in every word you said

One of the charisms that I have not discussed much, and the literature of the mystics does not seem to go into depth; however, it is an aspect of insight (vipassana), which is intuitive and revelatory, where the mystic learns to "read between the lines" of literature and even every day actions and occurrences.  This manifestation is often times used by psychiatrists as proof of psychosis.

And nor do I, except sometimes my reason goes
Out it flies, off to somewhere no-one knows

I lose my mind which I can’t find
Cos I don’t know it’s missing at all
Won’t you hold my hand and don’t let go
Or I will fall down through the clouds
Over the waterfall

This reads like her mind stills, perhaps naturally, but she is not sure what to do with a still mind.

Picture this attic with a window looking at the sky
Picture some basement like a dungeon and now you ask me why
I choose the sky, I hold the whole world in my hand
Embrace the night but now I don’t know who I am

She does not know who she is because she is having a non-dual experience. The 8 stages of the religious experience are characterized by a loss of the sense of self, which means it is a non-dual, or Advaita, experience.  However, western psychiatry sees a non-dual experience as another aspect of psychosis.

I lose my mind which I can’t find
Cos I don’t know what’s going on
Cos I’m on cloud nine and I feel fine
I’ve swallowed time, I’ve grown me some wings

The manic phase, as she describes here, is similar to the religious experience, as it is also characterized by the rising of energy, virtue, virya, kundalini, where the mystic finds power, joy, inspiration, and just wants to keep that power, and keep growing that power, which can be done through leading a disciplined contemplative life.

And now I can fly and follow the sky
And why should I come down

Perhaps here she is describing OOBEs, which are also a characteristic of the religious experience.  They are also called "raptures" in Christian mystical literature.

I hope you don’t mind if I stay under this duvet on my bed
I hope you don’t mind I don’t remember a single word you said
I’d like to die, end this rollercoaster ride
And so I cry, cos I can’t stop this turning tide

I lose my mind, if they can’t find
A cure this time, they’ll take me away
In a big white van, so hold my hand
And don’t let go, don’t let me fall
Through the cracks in the floor
So take my hand and don’t let go
Don’t let me go over the waterfall

One who has the religious experience needs to learn some mental discipline, which is what the contemplative life is about. Without that mental discipline it is all too easy to feel lost.  However, there is a tendency among mystics to retreat into solitude, which she seems to suggest in these final lines.  Solitude is a good thing for a mystic.  We can often times not get enough, but then sometimes we get lonely, which Emily Maguire describes in another of her songs.

[Michel]

Quote from: Emily Maguire - Over The Waterfall

And nor do I, except sometimes my reason goes
Out it flies, off to somewhere no-one knows

I lose my mind which I can’t find
Cos I don’t know it’s missing at all
Won’t you hold my hand and don’t let go
Or I will fall down through the clouds
Over the waterfall

Jhananda: This reads like her mind stills, perhaps naturally, but she is not sure what to do with a still mind.

You could be right, your interpretation makes some sense. Or, she might mean that she does things in a very spontaneous fashion without thinking‎‎, and that she's totally out of it,  which are characteristic of mania.

I remember having a loss of self-identity during some of my manic high episodes. I could no longer relate to whom I had been, as if my former self was dead, as if I had no pass. I was mostly preoccupied with the present moment in a state of awe and euphoria by the experience of simply observing things around me. I was in the clouds.

Quote from: Emily Maguire - Over The Waterfall

I lose my mind which I can’t find
Cos I don’t know what’s going on
Cos I’m on cloud nine and I feel fine
I’ve swallowed time, I’ve grown me some wings


Jhananda: The manic phase, as she describes here, is similar to the religious experience, as it is also characterized by the rising of energy, virtue, virya, kundalini, where the mystic finds power, joy, inspiration, and just wants to keep that power, and keep growing that power, which can be done through leading a disciplined contemplative life.

During my manic phases, conventional time had no meaning, I could feel an eternity in a single moment. I felt free and unburdened, as if a great weight had been lifted from my shoulders. The euphoria was at times very intense. I had great levels of energy, and my creativity knew no bounds. You never want to let these feelings go. When they're gone, it's as if you've lost something very precious, and you're depressed big time.

Emily Maguire's experiences are deeper than mine, and I'm not a mystic, so I don't understand them fully. It takes a mystic to unravel and interpret them.

How do you think Maguire developed into a mystic? Was she a mystic in a former life?

Is experiencing bipolar phenomena, such as in my case, indicative of anything?

I think what you say about pro-mystics makes a lot of sense, you're really onto something.

[Jhanananda]

You could be right, your interpretation makes some sense. Or, she might mean that she does things in a very spontaneous fashion without thinking‎‎, and that she's totally out of it,  which are characteristic of mania.

To me these are simply two different ways of interpreting the same experience.  Psychiatry deals with mania by restraining the subject until the mania passes.  I propose that the mania is not unlike the mystic's experience of kundalini.  It is just the mystic has learned self-control through cultivating mental discipline by leading a contemplative life.

I remember having a loss of self-identity during some of my manic high episodes. I could no longer relate to whom I had been, as if my former self was dead, as if I had no pass. I was mostly preoccupied with the present moment in a state of awe and euphoria by the experience of simply observing things around me. I was in the clouds.

Another way of looking at this is, perhaps Jesus was in a manic phase when he whipped the money changers in the temple?

During my manic phases, conventional time had no meaning, I could feel an eternity in a single moment. I felt free and unburdened, as if a great weight had been lifted from my shoulders. The euphoria was at times very intense. I had great levels of energy, and my creativity knew no bounds. You never want to let these feelings go. When they're gone, it's as if you've lost something very precious, and you're depressed big time.

Emily Maguire's experiences are deeper than mine, and I'm not a mystic, so I don't understand them fully. It takes a mystic to unravel and interpret them.

How do you think Maguire developed into a mystic? Was she a mystic in a former life?

Is experiencing bipolar phenomena, such as in my case, indicative of anything?

I think what you say about pro-mystics makes a lot of sense, you're really onto something.

The reason why I say the psychotic episodes of the bipolar are similar to the experience of the mystic is as you and Emily describe your manic phase it reads like my experience, and the experience of the mystics as described in their literature; except our experience has an element of balance, which we gain from cultivating tranquility and equanimity through leading a disciplined, self-aware contemplative life; whereas, the bipolar typically does not lead such a lifestyle.  To me, that is the only difference between the mystic and the bipolar.

[Michel]

Quote from: Michel on November 01, 2013, 04:13:22 PM

I remember having a loss of self-identity during some of my manic high episodes. I could no longer relate to whom I had been, as if my former self was dead, as if I had no pass. I was mostly preoccupied with the present moment in a state of awe and euphoria by the experience of simply observing things around me. I was in the clouds.

Jhananda: Another way of looking at this is, perhaps Jesus was in a manic phase when he whipped the money changers in the temple?

Do you mean that Jesus was out of character due to being manic?

How do you think people like Emily Maguire evolved into being proto-mystics?

[Jhanananda]

Do you mean that Jesus was out of character due to being manic?

No, there are just a number of ways to interpret the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite.  Greco-Roman Christianity is one way.  Another way is to dismiss him as merely bipolar psychotic, who, in his manic phase, whipped the money changers. 

Still another way of interpreting the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite is to consider that he and John the Baptist were both Nazarites, who found themselves marginalized by mainstream Jewish culture and religion and decided to take a suicide pact to force their mystic agenda upon the Jewish people.

Another way of interpreting the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite is he and his father, the Nazarite Joseph, left Judea for Kashmir when Jesus was 12 to escape the priesthood of the temple of Jerusalem, because Jesus had had a conversation with them, which revealed his mystical interpretation of the Bible.  They lived in Kashmir on alms.  Joseph eventually died. 

After Nazarite Joseph's death, Jesus decided to return to Judea, since he was Jewish.  There he found John the Baptist.  No one knew who Jesus was, because he had been out of the country for 12 years. 

Jesus made friends with John the Baptist, went on a fast, came back, found John the Baptist had handed over his disciples to him, just before getting himself arrested and martyred.  Jesus saw that was a good idea, so he arranged to have himself busted, drugged on the cross, so that he could be taken down early, then put into a friend's tomb, who promised to come later to revive him and apply aloe to his wounds, then after recovery Jesus returned to Kashmir with Thomas, who was the only one of his disciples who understood his teaching; and Jesus stayed in Kashmir until he died.

How do you think people like Emily Maguire evolved into being proto-mystics?

To me all bipolar psychotics are proto-mystics, or natural mystics.  They are sensitive to the charisms, but they just lack the mental discipline to not be driven crazy by them.

[Michel]

Jhananda:

...there are just a number of ways to interpret the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite...

Still another way of interpreting the life and times of Jesus the Nazarite is to consider that he and John the Baptist were both Nazarites, who found themselves marginalized by mainstream Jewish culture and religion and decided to take a suicide pact to force their mystic agenda upon the Jewish people.

This is very interesting. Other than the Greco-Roman Christian teachings, what source documents do you base your ideas about the life of Jesus and John the Baptist?
 
What was the life of a Nazarite like? What were their teachings and how did they practice?

Jhananda:

To me all bipolar psychotics are proto-mystics, or natural mystics.  They are sensitive to the charisms, but they just lack the mental discipline to not be driven crazy by them.

Let's see if I can apply the mental discipline necessary to keep my bipolar under control. When mania overtakes you, it seems like and unstoppable, monster of a hurricane. In my case mania builds gradually over a period of days before it becomes full blown. Maybe it can be subdued during this brief period, perhaps by letting go and just relaxing, along with diligently practicing the Eightfold Path. But if your theory is correct, and one is becoming manic, it would imply that one is not practicing the Eightfold Path properly.

[Jhanananda]

This is very interesting. Other than the Greco-Roman Christian teachings, what source documents do you base your ideas about the life of Jesus and John the Baptist?

It is all in the Gospels.  We know there was no town called "Nazareth."  So, it had to be Joseph and Jesus were Nazarites.  It is also a fact that the Arabic term for a Christian is "Nazarite."  It is also a historic fact that the earliest Christians were Jews, and they did not call themselves Christians.  They called themselves Nazarites.  To prove all of that takes a little homework, and I do not have all of the links handy.

The term 'Nazarite' appears in the Bible.  It is in Wiki.  It will tell you all about the Nazarite, and when you read it, you should be able to recognize that the description of the lifestyle of John the Baptist makes him a Nazarite.  It is so blatant, that I am surprised that not more Christians have dumped the whole Greco-Roman delusional system.  But, then the world is full of delusional idiots.  What can I say.

What was the life of a Nazarite like? What were their teachings and how did they practice?

Read Wiki on Nazarites.

Let's see if I can apply the mental discipline necessary to keep my bipolar under control. When mania overtakes you, it seems like and unstoppable, monster of a hurricane. In my case mania builds gradually over a period of days before it becomes full blown. Maybe it can be subdued during this brief period, perhaps by letting go and just relaxing, along with diligently practicing the Eightfold Path. But if your theory is correct, and one is becoming manic, it would imply that one is not practicing the Eightfold Path properly.

No, the mania is a good thing.  The problem for the manic, is lack of control/discipline.  If the bipolar could maintain tranquility and equanimity through the manic phase, then the manic phase could be sustained indefinitely,  At that point we could call the individual at least an arahat.  So, be mindfully self-aware. 

When you recognize the manic phase arising, then be even more mindfully self-aware. Do not throw that precious energy (virtue, virya, shakti, shakena, kundalini) around, but savor it, like a very expensive wine. 

Expensive wines are not gulped, they are sipped and savored.  The gourmand tastes the bouquet of the expensive wine/coffee. He/ she rolls it in his/her mouth, then breaths through it, feels the sensations on the tunque, inside the cheeks, and nasal passages; before swallowing it.  Then the wine passing down the throat is savored as well.  It is all mindfully observed. Be that self aware at all times, then you are diligently following the Noble Eightfold Path.

[Michel]

Jhananda:

No, the mania is a good thing.  The problem for the manic, is lack of control/discipline.  If the bipolar could maintain tranquility and equanimity through the manic phase, then the manic phase could be sustained indefinitely,  At that point we could call the individual at least and arahat.  So, be mindfully self-aware. 

When you recognize the manic phase arising, then be even more mindfully self-aware. Do not throw that precious energy (virtue, virya, shakti, shakena, kundalini) around, but savor it, like a very expensive wine. 

Expensive wines are not gulped, they are sipped and savored.  The gourmand tastes the bouquet of the expensive wine/coffee. He/ she rolls it in his/her mouth, then breaths through it, feels the sensations on the tongue, inside the cheeks, and nasal passages; before swallowing it.  Then the wine passing down the throat is savored as well.  It is all mindfully observed. Be that self aware at all times, then you are diligently following the Noble Eightfold Path.

This has got to be the most interesting and iconoclastic view that anyone has ever expressed in the history of bipolar disorder - it is fantastic. If the psychiatric and pharmaceutical industries were ever to hear of this, you would be crucified like Jesus. Hopefully they don't take you seriously.

[Jhanananda]

This has got to be the most interesting and iconoclastic view that anyone has ever expressed in the history of bipolar disorder - it is fantastic. If the psychiatric and pharmaceutical industries were ever to hear of this, you would be crucified like Jesus. Hopefully they don't take you seriously.

This reminds me of the kundalini forums, where they spend all of their time teaching people how to come down.  I say, go the other way.  Annihilate yourself in the charisms/mania.  Dive head first, let go of yourself, become god; but discipline yourself at the same time.  Still the mind.  Cultivate equanimity.

[Michel]

Jhananda:

This reminds me of the kundalini forums, where they spend all of their time teaching people how to come down.  I say, go the other way.  Annihilate yourself in the charisms/mania.  Dive head first, let go of yourself, become god; but discipline yourself at the same time.  Still the mind.  Cultivate equanimity.

I don't know if I could manage another strong manic episode and do as you suggest, I would need some sort of preparation, and it would be very risky. The psychiatrist told me that the next time I end up in the hospital they would consider putting me away for good in a group home for mentally ill people. I remember on one occasion I thought I was the reincarnation of Ludwig Van Beethoven, and that I could stare down people and stop objects with just a glance, and that I could walk through solid objects; I felt totally invincible. The intensity of euphoria was incredible, and I was in this state for a period of 3 months or so. I was fortunate that I did not end up confined in a mental facility. This was actually a milder case of the bipolar experiences that I've had. The doctor I had at the time was very liberal, and thought I should just enjoy myself, and I certainly did. I related well to people that I liked, and got on particularly well with the women. The doctor I have now would certify me immediately. The laws in in the province of Ontario allow the psychiatrists  to administer any of the medications they see fit, even by force if necessary, which happened to me a couple of times.

[Jhanananda]

I don't know if I could manage another strong manic episode and do as you suggest. The psychiatrist told me that the next time I end up in the hospital they would consider putting me away for good in a group home for mentally ill people.

Well, it is against the rules here to get busted for being in ecstasy :-)

I remember on one occasion, I thought I was the reincarnation of Ludwig Van Beethoven, and that I could stare down people and stop objects with just a glance, and that I could walk through solid objects; I felt totally invincible. The intensity of feeling was incredible, and I was in this state for some 3 months without ending up confined in a mental facility. This was actually a milder case of the bipolar experiences that I've had. The doctor I had at the time was very liberal, and thought I should just enjoy myself, and I certainly did. I related well to people that I liked, and got on particularly well with the women.

That was a pretty good laugh you gave me.  I agree with your previous doctor, enjoy yourself, but don't get into trouble, and don't take yourself too seriously.

The doctor I have now would certify me immediately. The laws in Ontario allow the psychiatrists  to administer any of the medications they see fit, even by force if necessary, which happened to me a couple of times.

Just work on developing the still mind (tranquility), and the equanimity.  No sense in getting the cart before the horse.

[Michel]

Jhananda:

Well, it is against the rules here to get busted for being in ecstasy :-)

Those are the kind of rules I like. Are there any other rules that I should know of?
Jhananda:

That was a pretty good laugh you gave me.  I agree with your previous doctor, enjoy yourself, but don't get into trouble, and don't take yourself too seriously

I recall one time back 1982, while I was manic, I laughed for two days straight, and became totally exhausterd. I thought I had discovered the secret of the source spirit of all human beings. I thought it was so simple to understand, and that all humans had it in them to understand this ancient wisdom, it was on the tip of their nose. That seemed very amusing, and it was. I remember taking a taxi to the hospital just a few blocks from where I lived, and tried to give the driver a $50 tip - he wouldn't take it, he thought I was nuts since I couldn't stop laughing on the way to the hospital. When I got there my plan was to convene a meeting for all the hospital staff so I could tell them of my profound discovery, but when I got there I was so exhausted from laughing that I couldn't speak a word. I must of looked totally catatonic. Anyways for some reason they sent me packing. I went back home and wrote a treatise on the great secret of the source spirit. I planed to hire a pilot and plane and drop millions of copies of it over New York, London, Paris, and Moscow. Two days later I and my treatise were brought in to the emergency department at the psychiatric hospital by two burly members of the police force, and the orderlies stuck a syringe in my butt. As for my treatise, they couldn't understand a word of it, but it made perfect sense to me. I later managed to escape from the hospital but they had confiscated my treatise, and I went on to have all kinds of interesting adventures. I remember one was a plan to ride a motor cycle across the Atlantic on the water and my destination was Paris. I wanted to visit Claude Debussy's grave, and see Erik Satie's apartment. So I went to the motor bike store to buy one. When I told them I was going to ride the waves on a bike across the Atlantic they like the taxi driver, and the hospital, thought I was nuts. It just so happened that a cop station was across from the motor bike shop. They cuffed me and put me in jail, and later I ended back in the hospital.

[Jhanananda]

Jhananda:

Well, it is against the rules here to get busted for being in ecstasy :-)

Those are the kind of rules I like. Are there any other rules that I should know of?

I will let you know when I think of them:-)

I recall one time back 1982, while I was manic, I laughed for two days straight, and became totally exhausterd. I thought I had discovered the secret of the source spirit of all human beings. I thought it was so simple to understand, and that all humans had it in them to understand this ancient wisdom, it was on the tip of their nose.

Well it is true, the secret of the source spirit of all human beings is on the tip of their nose, and it is laughable, but sorry you did not stay there.

That seemed very amusing, and it was. I remember taking a taxi to the hospital just a few blocks from where I lived, and tried to give the driver a $50 tip - he wouldn't take it, he thought I was nuts since I couldn't stop laughing on the way to the hospital.

Nice taxi driver.

When I got there my plan was to convene a meeting for all the hospital staff so I could tell them of my profound discovery, but when I got there I was so exhausted from laughing that I couldn't speak a word. I must of looked totally catatonic.

This is where you had not learned some discipline and dissipated the gift of the holy spirit.

Anyways for some reason they sent me packing. I went back home and wrote a treatise on the great secret of the source spirit. I planed to hire a pilot and plane and drop millions of copies of it over New York, London, Paris, and Moscow. Two days later I and my treatise were brought in to the emergency department at the psychiatric hospital by two burly members of the police force, and the orderlies stuck a syringe in my butt. As for my treatise, they couldn't understand a word of it, but it made perfect sense to me. I later managed to escape from the hospital but they had confiscated my treatise, and I went on to have all kinds of interesting adventures. I remember one was to ride a motor cycle across the Atlantic on the water and my destination was Paris. I wanted to visit Claude Debussy's grave, and see Erik Satie's apartment. So I went to the motor bike store to buy one. When I told them I was going to ride the waves on a bike across the Atlantic they like the taxi driver, and the hospital, thought I was nuts. It just so happened that a cop station was across from the motor bike shop. They cuffed me and put me in jail, and later I ended back in the hospital.

I would like to see your treatise.  But, it does sound like critical thinking goes down the tubes when you are manic.  So, here is another homework assignment for you.  Work on your critical thinking skills and never let go of them. So, you have: discipline, mindful self-awareness, tranquility, equanimity, and critical thinking now on your chart.  You might want to write the list down and stick it to your refrigerator.

[Michel]

Jhananda:

I would like to see your treatise.

I really regret to say that during one of my depressions a couple of years ago I destroyed the treatise. It was really something special.  But I remember all the main details of it. I titled the treatise "The Wisdom of the Source: For the Eyes of Madmen Only". It was written in a great fury, and in one sitting, and was some fourteen pages long. To this very day I know that I did not write it  -  it came directly from the Source deep within me. It was pure spirit speaking. Much of it seemed like nonsense, but the main ideas in it would make sense to any mystic that would have read it.

Here are some of  the main ideas, which I remember, and I have paraphrased and presented them here in the form of an imaginary lecture spoken by the Source to the Intellect as in the original treatise:

Intellect, understand that I am the source of all wisdom directly speaking to you.

Intellect, I am so large that you can't even see me, and I am also the incomprehensible.

You intellect, are fighting a futile, horrible, savage and needless war with your own soldiers, against each other, trying to suppress me. This is the cause of your angst and depression.

You are very afraid of me, but you don't even know it, for it is not possible for you to know anything.

When you, Intellect, stand out of my way, I will arise from the depths in glorious  splendor, and I am infinite in power, I can release great energies, and possess infinite creativity, and I am beyond the beginning of time itself.

Intellect, you can only deceive, steel, murder with all of your foolish concepts, fears and ideas.

Intellect, Michel does not exist, this is your foolish idea, bases on ridiculous concepts, this is your insane invention.

Give up intellect, you cannot not possibly win against me, in the end you have always failed since beyond the beginning of time.

Understand this Intellect, you did not write this treatise, I the Source of all wisdom did.

Intellect, I am your lord and master, you should serve me, don't deny me, and then, and only then, will all your problems be solved.

Was this the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking here, or what?

Jhananda:

But, it does sound like critical thinking goes down the tubes when you are manic.  So, here is another homework assignment for you.  Work on your critical thinking skills and never let go of them. So, you have: discipline, mindful self-awareness, tranquility, equanimity, and critical thinking now on your chart.  You might want to write the list down and stick it to your refrigerator

I will do as you say. I try to practice these every day. Will discuss this important subject in detail in another post.