Jhanon's Meditation and Mystical Experience Records

[Jhanananda]

...She signaled to me, turned, and I followed her through a door way. As she went through the doorway, everything but her went black, and she progressively became light and shrunk down to a floating golden orb. At that point, I lost the vision, and seemingly re-visited it to observe details of it.

It has been my experience that when we travel to higher realms the body disappears and beings just become points of light.  In SE Asian beliefs the ghost is a luminous sphere, which they call a 'kasina."  They mostly have a great deal of fear around contact with the disembodied.

I can't freaking believe this. I messaged my friend right after my meditation and asked her what she was wearing, what she was doing, etc. I made sure to make careful note of those things while I was viewing her.

With the exception of a shade of the shorts she was wearing (dark blue, not light blue), I got it right. An interesting thing happened though when I tried to "populate" her face during the view. I first saw an old man with glasses and a wide jaw which dominated the entire viewing. And then her face came into view. Before I told her this, she told me she was listening to this guy I probably shouldn't mention, but the point is that it was his face I saw first. Since I couldn't hear during the view, would relevant audio data be visually populated like that?

This is similar to my experience of remote viewing at the level of the 3rd jhana.

[Jhanon]

Thank you for providing information in comparison to your experiences, Jhananda.

Speaking of fear of the disembodied. I have a question. I have a friend who is a Christian, but she used to be a Native American shaman. We get along really well, and have experienced many unique moments together that are rare with others. Anyway, whenever I would tell her about my spiritual journey, she would always cause me fear by warning me that "some of these beings will follow you home, literally." She is highly dedicated to Christianity only, yet she seems to have legitimate mystic experience--although I haven't been able to completely confirm it. Her knowledge seems intellectually based on past entheogen use. Again, I can't be sure.

Do I need to fear "things following me home" from samadhi? I don't know exactly why, but she is very convincing when she talks about things like this.

Note to self: Ask about recent personal interpretations of the "holy trinity" in relation to my samadhi experiences.

[Jhanananda]

Thank you for providing information in comparison to your experiences, Jhananda.

Speaking of fear of the disembodied. I have a question. I have a friend who is a Christian, but she used to be a Native American shaman. We get along really well, and have experienced many unique moments together that are rare with others. Anyway, whenever I would tell her about my spiritual journey, she would always cause me fear by warning me that "some of these beings will follow you home, literally." She is highly dedicated to Christianity only, yet she seems to have legitimate mystic experience--although I haven't been able to completely confirm it. Her knowledge seems intellectually based on past entheogen use. Again, I can't be sure.

A true shaman is a true mystic.  In my experience with people claiming to be shaman, is most people claiming to be shaman these days have as much attainment as your average priest of any mainstream religion, which is zero.  A true mystic/shaman does not need drugs.  And, there is no reason why a true shaman would have to reject shamanism to be a true Christian; because, they would have had to unpack Christianity for themselves to find that mainstream Christianity is as deeply flawed as any mainstream religion.

Do I need to fear "things following me home" from samadhi? I don't know exactly why, but she is very convincing when she talks about things like this.

Here is my finding on all of such spiritual fears.  Once I counted as a friend a man claiming to be a shaman.  One morning he came to my home with the intention of doing me spiritual harm.  By then I could consistently meditate to the depth of the 4th samadhi/jhana, and had quite a bit of experience with the immaterial domains, as he had. 

This shaman sat across from me and gazed into my eyes with the intent of harm.  I sat in meditation at the depth of the 4th jhana, which meant I was as transparent as glass.  He sat there for about an hour, then he got up and left.  I only saw him one more time before he died, as I could not longer count him as friend.  No harm came to me.

Now, when one begins to explore the immaterial domains one of course encounters disembodied spirits.  One who is not accomplished, established in the 4th samadhi/jhana is ill prepared for the shenanigans that commonly take place there. This is why I do not emphasize the immaterial domains, OOBE, etc.; because few have mastered the 4th samadhi/jhana.  Those who have I am more than happy to guide the rest of the way.

Note to self: Ask about recent personal interpretations of the "holy trinity" in relation to my samadhi experiences.

Trinitarianism is at the root of the corruption of the life and teachings of Jesus, or any other mystic.

[Sam Lim]

I would like to add that before I teach any of my students is to ask them to get rid of fear. This is the main factor that would obstruct anyone from progressing further. Sometimes, with one session of meditation with me they start to see things that they would not normally see and that would hinder their progress.

Further to add, when one is in a OOBE, there are beings which are out of this world, which I have encountered and was afraid once but I overcame that fear. Therefore, the stability in the fourth jhana is very important.

People tend to make the mistake of thinkingg the 5th jhana and beyond are the superior fruits but without the 4 material jhanas, you can't progress anywhere. Just my opinion.

[Jhanon]

I'm still confused, and I'm very sorry, but I feel I need to pursue this further, and I need to feel confident about my conclusion as soon as possible. Last time, about a year ago when I first had my most profound experience and didn't yet know of the GWV, i told her about it, and she sufficiently, I am embarrassed to admit, scared me into being a "taking the oath" Christian for about a week.

I foolishly, yet again, feeling confident that we were just misunderstanding each others terminology, took her terminology and explained my undetailed experiences in those terms. Because, her warnings matched up with what I've found. So, an example is that she warned the Holy Spirit is necessary for protection and guidance when exploring out of the body. I interpreted the "Holy Spirit" as the immaterial body/charisms strongest in the 4th jhana, and responded (without mentioning ANY of the terminology we use here). Now I am hesitant to read her response, because she can be very persuasive, especially since we are good friends.

A true shaman is a true mystic.  In my experience with people claiming to be shaman, is most people claiming to be shaman these days have as much attainment as your average priest of any mainstream religion, which is zero.  A true mystic/shaman does not need drugs.  And, there is no reason why a true shaman would have to reject shamanism to be a true Christian; because, they would have had to unpack Christianity for themselves to find that mainstream Christianity is as deeply flawed as any mainstream religion.

She no longer uses drugs, although when I first began to get to know her, she invited me to bring some psych's I had. And it was a very unique experience with her, and i began to wonder if she was a shaman. It was that night which she told me she had a past with it. Her mother was there that night, and it was clear they both had a rich heritage with Native American spirituality. I can't recall her ever bashing shamanism, but I do know she is a Christian, and listens to people like Chuck Missler, which appears to be a lot of talk about "the coming of the end." His face was what flashed into my awareness before her face populated when I viewed her. And then she told me she was listening to him when I viewed her, which made sense of it all.

It is strange, because she seems to know a lot about the immaterial domains, yet she attaches to the "oath taking" kind of Christianity. I almost wonder if during her shaman years she sufficiently scared herself into attaching to a conservative Christian view.

Here is my finding on all of such spiritual fears.  Once I counted as a friend a man claiming to be a shaman.  One morning he came to my home with the intention of doing me spiritual harm.  By then I could consistently meditate to the depth of the 4th samadhi/jhana, and had quite a bit of experience with the immaterial domains, as he had. 

This shaman sat across from me and gazed into my eyes with the intent of harm.  I sat in meditation at the depth of the 4th jhana, which meant I was as transparent as glass.  He sat there for about an hour, then he got up and left.  I only saw him one more time before he died, as I could not longer count him as friend.  No harm came to me.

Now, when one begins to explore the immaterial domains one of course encounters disembodied spirits.  One who is not accomplished, established in the 4th samadhi/jhana is ill prepared for the shenanigans that commonly take place there. This is why I do not emphasize the immaterial domains, OOBE, etc.; because few have mastered the 4th samadhi/jhana.  Those who have I am more than happy to guide the rest of the way.

Okay, so it sounds like you are saying some people, somehow, skip jhana 1-4 and go straight to the immaterial domains? Because, it has been my experience that jhana 1-4 are precursors to the immaterial domains. At least for consistent and long-duration access.

Once one is in the immaterial domains, one is no longer in 4th jhana, correct? Well, it is possible to see the immaterial domains while in 4th jhana, but, well, I think you know what i mean. So, how does it matter that mastering 4th jhana is necessary to properly protect and navigate oneself in the immaterial domains, like 5th samadhi? I really can't catch onto this. I think it needs to be more detailed. The best guess I can make, is that somehow one will discover a disembodied spirit is trying to harm them (how?!) and then revert to the 4th jhana for protection.

And what exactly about the 4th jhana protects one from disembodied spirits "following you home?"

I just need to understand the mechanics at work here.

This post is long enough as it is. I'm going to leave it at this for now, and address the rest of the responses later. But this is the main concern (above.)

[Jhanananda]

People tend to make the mistake of thinkingg the 5th jhana and beyond are the superior fruits but without the 4 material jhanas, you can't progress anywhere. Just my opinion.

I completely concur

I'm still confused, and I'm very sorry, but I feel I need to pursue this further, and I need to feel confident about my conclusion as soon as possible. Last time, about a year ago when I first had my most profound experience and didn't yet know of the GWV, i told her about it, and she sufficiently, I am embarrassed to admit, scared me into being a "taking the oath" Christian for about a week.

Religious fundamentalism in every religion is much the same, just the package looks different.  All they want is for you to believe in something, which turns out to be a gross misinterpretation, which is based upon a gross mistranslation of their religious material.  Typical of Religious fundamentalism is their belief system has no depth to it, so it does not satisfy those with intelligence, and critical thinking abilities.

I foolishly, yet again, feeling confident that we were just misunderstanding each others terminology, took her terminology and explained my undetailed experiences in those terms. Because, her warnings matched up with what I've found. So, an example is that she warned the Holy Spirit is necessary for protection and guidance when exploring out of the body. I interpreted the "Holy Spirit" as the immaterial body/charisms strongest in the 4th jhana, and responded (without mentioning ANY of the terminology we use here). Now I am hesitant to read her response, because she can be very persuasive, especially since we are good friends.

This is precisely how I interpret the charisms that we report here within a Christian context.

She no longer uses drugs, although when I first began to get to know her, she invited me to bring some psych's I had. And it was a very unique experience with her, and i began to wonder if she was a shaman. It was that night which she told me she had a past with it. Her mother was there that night, and it was clear they both had a rich heritage with Native American spirituality. I can't recall her ever bashing shamanism, but I do know she is a Christian, and listens to people like Chuck Missler, which appears to be a lot of talk about "the coming of the end." His face was what flashed into my awareness before her face populated when I viewed her. And then she told me she was listening to him when I viewed her, which made sense of it all.

It is strange, because she seems to know a lot about the immaterial domains, yet she attaches to the "oath taking" kind of Christianity. I almost wonder if during her shaman years she sufficiently scared herself into attaching to a conservative Christian view.

It sounds like your assessment about this woman is correct.  The thing to get is very, very few people figure out the significances of the 4 jhanas, as we call them here.  So, it is not surprising that she has turned to fundamentalism, because she has not completely figured it out.

On point here, is my next door neighbor explained to me on one occasion that his grandmother (a native American shaman) initiated him into OOBE practice, which was successful for him.  He got to the OOBE, and he got some chairsms, but he did not know what to do with the charisms, so he has been resisting them, which has turned into delusional paranoia.  Then he turned to self-medicating his delusional paranoia with drugs and alcohol, which has made things worse for him.  Then he moved next to me, and his charisms went through the roof, because, like gandarloda experiences with his students, people who are sensitive will experience charisms in our presence, even if they live next door, which could explain the Taos hum phenomena.

Okay, so it sounds like you are saying some people, somehow, skip jhana 1-4 and go straight to the immaterial domains? Because, it has been my experience that jhana 1-4 are precursors to the immaterial domains. At least for consistent and long-duration access.

Correct; however, these people are in a hurry for the fantastic experiences available to them in the immaterial domains, so they rush passed the all too important developmental stage of the 4 jhanas, which is the material plane experience of what Christians call the "Holy Spirit."  But, Christians tend to not cultivate that experience of the Holy Spirit in depth in meditation.  Instead they tend to turn it into a massively emotional experience, as religious fundamentalists in other religions tend to do.

Once one is in the immaterial domains, one is no longer in 4th jhana, correct?

Correct.

Well, it is possible to see the immaterial domains while in 4th jhana, but, well, I think you know what i mean.

Correct.  That is what remote viewing is about.  All of the charisms, or sensory phenomena that is associated with deep meditation from 1st to 4th stage, are the contemplative's awareness coming into contact with the non-sensory phenomena of the immaterial domains.

So, how does it matter that mastering 4th jhana is necessary to properly protect and navigate oneself in the immaterial domains, like 5th samadhi? I really can't catch onto this. I think it needs to be more detailed...The best guess I can make, is that somehow one will discover a disembodied spirit is trying to harm them (how?!) and then revert to the 4th jhana for protection...And what exactly about the 4th jhana protects one from disembodied spirits "following you home?" I just need to understand the mechanics at work here.

We all are at all times bathed in an ocean of immaterial beings.  There is no, bringing a demon home, because the demons are all around us, so are the angels.

The significance of cultivating the first 4 stages of the religious experience is developing the still mind, which is called 'tranquility;' as well as developing equanimity.  With out the still mind, then the mind tries to interpret the non-sensory phenomena, which are the sensory charisms, into something it can understand.  The impure mind turns those non-sensory phenomena into devils that drive it mad.  The devout turn those non-sensory phenomena into angels, which the devout find pleasing.  That is the "mechanics" of how it "works."

[Jhanon]

I'm sorry, I intend to respond to your ample and stimulating post, Jhananda. I have to record this before I forget, though. I am doing schoolwork, but I need to record this.

I was reading about Darwin, evolution, genetic mutations, and how the universe came into existence. And I thought, well, aren't universes beings? And didn't the Buddha say beings pass on according to their karma or something like that? But I wanted to get further. So I started having flashes of how planes and realms come to be. Then as I was staring forward, contemplating and allowing an opening for insight, I saw this small pink light, seemingly floating on the closet surface over a mark that is there.

I found it interesting. And so I fixed my mind on it. Slowly, everything began to change. My heart felt excited. I saw pure white light beginning to manifest everywhere, but not a lot. It was some here and there. And I shifted my mind somehow, and suddenly the entire room lit up, like brilliant rays of heaven were shining in through the window. But the windows blinds are closed. And it wasn't like ordinary sunshine. It was magnificently pure and bright illumination. It was exhilarating. And, it reminded me of the zen "stare at a wall" method I've heard of. This isn't the first time something like this has happened. I'm beginning to think it is a state in which I can remain in throughout daily life, once I spend enough time learning to do so with less effort.

Which would suggest that.....ummmm....See, my room suddenly looked like "heaven on earth." If you see what i'm getting at. Is this familiar to anyone? Is it possible to perceive daily life in this way, all day?

I'll be back later when my work is done. Sadly I need to get this schoolwork done before I can experiment more.

[Valdy]

 >>>people who are sensitive will experience charisms in our presence, even if they live next door, which could explain the Taos hum phenomena. >>>>

Hello Jeff, I think I hear the Taos Hum but I don't think there is a mystic living next door to me. I do feel 3 places nearby that I think are power spots, one of which tears my stomach apart if I stay there more than a few minutes although all 3 power spots stop the hum and feel very quiet with a pleasant buzzing sound, I did try to sleep on one of them but just floated around all night without getting to sleep.

One of these power spots I know had been used by shamans over 100 years ago.

What is your experience with the Taos Hum and what would you suggest.

Valdy : -)

[Jhanananda]

>>>people who are sensitive will experience charisms in our presence, even if they live next door, which could explain the Taos hum phenomena. >>>>

Hello Jeff, I think I hear the Taos Hum but I don't think there is a mystic living next door to me. I do feel 3 places nearby that I think are power spots, one of which tears my stomach apart if I stay there more than a few minutes although all 3 power spots stop the hum and feel very quiet with a pleasant buzzing sound, I did try to sleep on one of them but just floated around all night without getting to sleep.

One of these power spots I know had been used by shamans over 100 years ago.

What is your experience with the Taos Hum and what would you suggest.

Valdy : -)

From what I have read from you, you are the source of the hum that you are experiencing.  As for the "Taos Hum," I have driven trough Taos a few times, and I camped near there about 40 years ago.  I do not recall any localized hum relative to Taos; however, I have had the charismatic sound intermittently for about 40 years.  Since people have reported here that when others meditate with them, then those people report hearing a hum.  Taos has a number of contemplative groups; it is therefore reasonable that the source of the Taos hum is contemplatives in Taos who meditate with depth.

[Jhanananda]

I'm sorry, I intend to respond to your ample and stimulating post, Jhananda. I have to record this before I forget, though. I am doing schoolwork, but I need to record this.

I was reading about Darwin, evolution, genetic mutations, and how the universe came into existence. And I thought, well, aren't universes beings? And didn't the Buddha say beings pass on according to their karma or something like that? But I wanted to get further. So I started having flashes of how planes and realms come to be.

I do not happen to subscribe to a belief in a beginning and/or an end for the physical universe.  When religion and science postulate a beginning and an end, it seems to me, that the mind simply cannot grasp beginninglessness.

Then as I was staring forward, contemplating and allowing an opening for insight, I saw this small pink light, seemingly floating on the closet surface over a mark that is there.

I found it interesting. And so I fixed my mind on it. Slowly, everything began to change. My heart felt excited. I saw pure white light beginning to manifest everywhere, but not a lot. It was some here and there. And I shifted my mind somehow, and suddenly the entire room lit up, like brilliant rays of heaven were shining in through the window. But the windows blinds are closed. And it wasn't like ordinary sunshine. It was magnificently pure and bright illumination. It was exhilarating. And, it reminded me of the zen "stare at a wall" method I've heard of. This isn't the first time something like this has happened. I'm beginning to think it is a state in which I can remain in throughout daily life, once I spend enough time learning to do so with less effort.

Which would suggest that.....ummmm....See, my room suddenly looked like "heaven on earth." If you see what i'm getting at. Is this familiar to anyone? Is it possible to perceive daily life in this way, all day?

I'll be back later when my work is done. Sadly I need to get this schoolwork done before I can experiment more.

All of the senses have charsms, so the charism of the visual sense is light, as you described it.  We have discussed the charism of sound often here.  I, and other mystics, have found these charisms are manifestations of sacred.  Thus, when we experience any charism, then we are in the presence of the sacred.  When we experience charisms in all of our senses, then we are flooded with the sacred, or the Holy Spirit in a Christian context.  The goal of the mystic is to remain thus in the presence of the sacred all of the time.

[Jhanon]

I had a really beautiful and easy samadhi sesesion just now. I had watched a couple of Jhananda's old videos, and they inspired me to do more "work" during meditation. Throughout the entire session, I placed my awareness on the tingling hands, eventually moving to the heart, and then the head, and then nothing and yet not nothing.

And, it was interesting. I would have a thought, and then it would unravel. Like, I would see the reason behind the thought. And then I returned to stronger and fuller charisms. Then a thought, and the reason would automatically bloom from it--then it's petals would blow away in the wind, and I would return to stronger and fuller charisms. It was so easy. I mean, there was such a sense of ease about it. I forgot that it worked this way. I seem to forget about the mind part of all this, and just focus on charisms. But this was a good refresher course. Even pains in the body dissolved in this way. Eventually, I dissolved in this way.

 As soon as I came out of it, if you were to ask me what I was doing, I would say "Being/enjoying rain." It was ecstasy. Like, I don't know how to explain it. "I was rain". I checked the time. It was almost 4 hours in length. I was stunned, because it didn't feel that way. Really, it didn't feel like time at all. Upon moving the body, it felt so foreign and crude. I don't know what more I can say.

[Jhanananda]

Congratulations on finding a successful method of meditation.  What you described above is essentially my method as well.

[Jhanon]

Yes! Please, Jhananda and anyone reading this; do not let me forget about the process of mental unpacking during samadhi. Please remind me to practice samadhi as a whole, not just as a means to "feeling good." Cuz it feels best when we do the work AND play at the same time.

[Jhanon]

Today has been a day fairly dedicated to remaining self-aware, rigorous, present, and as expansively aware as possible. It has been mostly a dark day, however.

I'm really getting sick and tired of a few things.

1) Inconsiderate noise and idle chatter at my residence.
2) Being unable to meditate in crossed-legs or corpse pose without significant pain or numbing/unpleasant tingling in left leg (Appears to be nerve damage from all those years of slouching through boring school classes.)
3) Samadhi sessions being unremarkable. Today, despite boozing, crying babies, and irresponsible behavior all around me; I was able to reach 4th jhana. And you know, it was disappointing like it is most times.

I can absorb fairly easily. I absorbed in the sunset earlier today, with eyes open and the usual human racket on a Friday evening in a park. But it's nothing more than an altered state and some mild reprieve in the form of slight novelty.

I wanna know why so few of my meditations have been pleasant, despite arriving at 4th samadhi fairly consistently whenever I have at least 1.5 hours to meditate.

And I want to know where the hell the kundalini is hiding. When I first got back from my sunset absorption, I was determined to write a booklet detailing the many circumstances and causes which were in-place during any mild surge or full on blast.

I do know that the pleasure of my samadhi sessions has something to do with serotonin balances,  which suggests to me 5-HTP may worth more extensive tests.

I suppose anything which stimulates or messes with serotonin may be useful. DL- Phenylalinin, 5-HTP, stuff like that. I've also found that the day after a mild psychedelic dose tends to have the best meditations. The meditations then have the "magic" they've otherwise almost never had.

If anyone would like to make suggestions, please let me know. I've tried looking at the experience as "sacred" or "communing with the divine." I have a fairly excellent diet. And I use too many daily medications. I know they are mostly to blame, but I need to find something to make absorption more enjoyable before I can count on the resolve to get off and stay off them. Absorption would need to replace them without interfering with my daily responsibilities.

[Alexander]

Here are some of the things I have been practicing these days:

- simplicity
- evacuation of all thoughts/concerns
- no planning
- no solicitude for others
- receptivity to whatever spiritual affects me
- not trying to find any siddhis
- receptivity to the dark night
- receptivity to spiritual violence
- remaining saturated in the 3rd jhana --- and if possible moving into the 4th
- going on long, isolated walks outside, or else staying in seclusion

Like you I am interested to finally experience the fantastic. At the same time, if I will have to confront ghosts and demons and angels in the spiritual realm, I am glad I am not there just yet.