Remote Viewing

[Jhanon]

Those who know me a bit by now know that I am of an excitable nature when it comes to the novelties of the mystic path. I exercise critical thinking often, and when it came to things like remote viewing and seeing the past, I suspended most wonder until more data came in.

Recently in 4th jhana, i attempted to recall my past lives, like the Buddha did. I only had a general idea that it involved intention. I knew nothing of the specific mechanics. I saw my childhood home in stunning detail. Next time in 3rd jhana, I found my mind intending to view someone close to me. To my surprise, I did, and confirmed it. Now curious to see if this really was possible, I attempted the next time I was in 3rd jhana to do so with someone else I knew would be okay with my viewing them without their knowledge. It was confirmed, and I was satisfied. I learned to remote view, both present and past (so far.)

It was quite natural how it happened. I wasn't forcing or yearning or attached to the idea of it being possible. Since Jhananda never seemed to talk about it, I never thought about it. It wasn't even that interesting a concept.

But now that I have explored its mechanics, I find myself absolutely enthralled with samadhi. In other words, I've gained even greater interest and confidence in the teachings I've studied for so long--and in the Buddha. In enlightenment. It's one thing to know something is possible; it's quite another to actualize it.

I began to wonder, why no one ever talked about remote viewing on here. Why didn't Jhananda ever view me and then tell me about it, thus helping me gain additional zeal and confidence. Then I realized some possible answers.

1) Ethics - Humans have invented and treasure privacy. I'm inclined to only view if someone gives me permission in the sake of them wanting to gain confidence and zeal in pursuing samadhi. But this is also tricky.

2) The Witch Trial Effect - They might seem to want to have it proven, but are they really ready? Do they secretly expect it to be untrue? What ramifications could this have on you?

These are some things I think are unexpected for one who is generally excited by such novel powers. Perhaps they don't even consider the responsibility that comes with it.

What other caution or wisdom might those with the same ability offer me? If it is not clear, I am attempting to save myself any trouble. On the one hand, I find it fascinating, and wish to explore what more can be done with such a power (past lives seem to be a reasonable example.) On the other hand, I wish to be responsible and stay on the path.

[Jhanananda]

As we have discussed on other threads remote viewing is something I explored extensively in my early days of developing the 8 stages of the religious experience.  I rarely use it now for a number of reasons, some of which you explored. 

1] Ethics, just because windows go both ways, does not mean that it is ethical or legal for use to creep up to someone's house and peer into their windows.  The same is true for remote viewing.

2] Lack of interest/volition.  I am must too enthralled with the charisms to play games with them.

3] I do not at all have any interest in inducing others to play games with the charisms, such as OOBEs, or remote viewing, etc.; because it does not lead to liberation and enlightenment.  However, I have no problem with people experiencing these charisms, because they are definitely par for the course.

[bodhimind]

Thought I'd post my experience of this.

I had a friend who flew back to some part of Asia. In that week he was gone, when I was dreaming, I suddenly found myself in 1st person perspective walking around his home. It was more of "flying" around. It was like I was a camera. I could go up the stairs, and go through doors, etc - just by thinking. I saw this cupboard and remembered its contents. When my friend came back, I asked him if there was such a cupboard. I told him the specific positions and everything and he was  quite surprised, saying, "I never told you that!"

I'm not sure if this qualifies as a type of remote viewing?

[Jhanananda]

bodhimind, your description sounds more like an OOBE, than remote viewing.

[Jhanon]

bodhimind, your description sounds more like an OOBE, than remote viewing.

Bingo. If you're like me, and find that knowledge of all things charismatic helps inspire you to meditate, then read on....

Remote viewing, as it is commonly known, happens while in the form jhana's of 3rd and 4th. In 3rd and 4th jhana, you are occupying some of the physical body while utilizing the charismatic body of faculties.

As a result of the limited ability of remote viewing, some of the content of a remote viewing can be symbolic. For example, you may be watching someone read something, and you intend to know what that someone is listening to. I couldn't hear it because I wasn't fully in the charismatic body--since I was in 3rd jhana. In that case, I had a flash of a person's face which overlayed the center of the vision, and then disappeared. The person's face I saw was what my friend was listening to at the time I viewed them.

In my experience, OOBE like you experienced is the natural progression of the remote viewing faculty. You're completely in the charismatic body of faculties, which is why it was lucid and full of detail--unlike remote viewing.

As you know, we live in a dualistic world. So we can look for proof in the physical body for this understanding of the charismatic ("non-physical") body. A good physical example is seeing in the dark. If you come inside from a bright sunny day, and enter a pitch black room--you will be unable to see anything. But as your eyes adjust to absorb more light, you can see more.

In the same way, the ability to charismatically "view" will be almost unnoticeable as such in it's earliest developments. But soon you adjust and absorb deeper, and begin to get pictures of people and places, then you experience remote viewing, and next you are OOBE and observing. If you go further, you will experience all of existence simultaneously (although exactly how you experience that I don't have enough experiences to say.)

This makes sense when you think about it, which is why I explained it more in the Supernatural Powers Thread.

The point is there is a huge bounty of reward and knowledge on the path to enlightenment. But, in my opinion, they are tools for and confirming signs of attaining enlightenment in this life--not peeping. LOL.

[bodhimind]

The point is there is a huge bounty of reward and knowledge on the path to enlightenment. But, in my opinion, they are tools for and confirming signs of attaining enlightenment in this life--not peeping. LOL.

LOL. Well, it wasn't very intentional, I guess I need to train myself to be intentional...

So from what I gather... Remote viewing only concerns sights, yes?

Also, I need to elaborate on what I said earlier because I realized that it was omitted. The thing was, when he also said that I described the thing exactly as it was... about 5 years ago in his home!

Does this mean that in an OOBE, you can also move backwards in the past? That is actually interesting...

[Jhanon]

The point is there is a huge bounty of reward and knowledge on the path to enlightenment. But, in my opinion, they are tools for and confirming signs of attaining enlightenment in this life--not peeping. LOL.

LOL. Well, it wasn't very intentional, I guess I need to train myself to be intentional...

So from what I gather... Remote viewing only concerns sights, yes?

Also, I need to elaborate on what I said earlier because I realized that it was omitted. The thing was, when he also said that I described the thing exactly as it was... about 5 years ago in his home!

Does this mean that in an OOBE, you can also move backwards in the past? That is actually interesting...

I'm surprised Jhananda hasn't addressed your questions. He's far more knowledgeable.

So from what I gather... Remote viewing only concerns sights, yes?

Not exactly. There are a few Arahants here which I have strong reason to suspect are capable of having a full sensory remote viewing. Meaning they are in the form jhanas (1-4), and are projecting their consciousness, but capable of expanding their field of consciousness to encompass more than just vision of what they wish to view.

LOL. Well, it wasn't very intentional, I guess I need to train myself to be intentional...

I'm not going to touch that. I'll just say that you may find it interesting to observe intention itself during samadhi.

Also, I need to elaborate on what I said earlier because I realized that it was omitted. The thing was, when he also said that I described the thing exactly as it was... about 5 years ago in his home!

This isn't unusual.

Does this mean that in an OOBE, you can also move backwards in the past? That is actually interesting...

I'm unsure how to answer this for you. One can witness the past through all the absorption states. I personally have found it easier to do this in the form jhana's (1-4). It also seems very common for a jhana practitioner (who is working to master the first four jhanas) to experience their past lives when they meditate to sleep. I've experienced many, as have others.

You might then be wondering things like "Well, what did Jesus actually do? Did he exist? What happened to Hitler? etc..." But, as fascinating as all this can seem, there are things far more "interesting." Things that make you lose all interest in worldly applications like remote viewing the past.  Things that are beyond words. I've tried, in the "Heart Writing" thread, for example, but it just doesn't translate. That's the real good stuff. The insights that change everything.

Here's an example of my earlier, failed attempts to express these insights.

The Dog

[Jhanon]

The point is there is a huge bounty of reward and knowledge on the path to enlightenment. But, in my opinion, they are tools for and confirming signs of attaining enlightenment in this life--not peeping. LOL.

LOL. Well, it wasn't very intentional, I guess I need to train myself to be intentional...

So from what I gather... Remote viewing only concerns sights, yes?

Also, I need to elaborate on what I said earlier because I realized that it was omitted. The thing was, when he also said that I described the thing exactly as it was... about 5 years ago in his home!

Does this mean that in an OOBE, you can also move backwards in the past? That is actually interesting...

I'm surprised Jhananda hasn't addressed your questions. He's far more knowledgeable.

So from what I gather... Remote viewing only concerns sights, yes?

Not exactly. There are a few Arahants here which I have strong reason to suspect are capable of having a full sensory remote viewing. Meaning they are in the form jhanas (1-4), and are projecting their consciousness, but capable of expanding their field of consciousness to encompass more than just vision of what they wish to view.

LOL. Well, it wasn't very intentional, I guess I need to train myself to be intentional...

I'm not going to touch that. I'll just say that you may find it interesting to observe intention itself during samadhi.

Also, I need to elaborate on what I said earlier because I realized that it was omitted. The thing was, when he also said that I described the thing exactly as it was... about 5 years ago in his home!

This isn't unusual.

Does this mean that in an OOBE, you can also move backwards in the past? That is actually interesting...

I'm unsure how to answer this for you. One can witness the past through all the absorption states. I personally have found it easier to do this in the form jhana's (1-4). It also seems very common for a jhana practitioner (who is working to master the first four jhanas) to experience their past lives when they meditate to sleep. I've experienced many, as have others.

You might then be wondering things like "Well, what did Jesus actually do? Did he exist? What happened to Hitler? etc..." But, as fascinating as all this can seem, there are things far more "interesting." Things that have made me lose all interest in worldly applications like remote viewing the past.  Things that are beyond words.

I've tried, in the "Heart Writing" thread, for example, but it just doesn't translate. That's the real good stuff. The more time we spend with the charisms, the deeper the insight, and the less it can translate into words. So it's the stuff no one is talking about that's really amazing.

Here's an example of my earlier, failed attempts to express these insights.

We are like a conduit through which Nature flows. The conduit is not a self, but the conduit is aware. The awareness is you, but it is Nature.

"The Dog"

But, I'm not discouraging you from attempting to do these things you're interested in.

[Jhanananda]

LOL. Well, it wasn't very intentional, I guess I need to train myself to be intentional...

All of the charisms arise naturally. There is no need to train for them, other than to lead a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life.  However, one will find it useful to have guidance along the way, which is what this forum is about.

So from what I gather... Remote viewing only concerns sights, yes?

Not really.  The term "Remote viewing" is misleading, because all of our senses are available to us in a non-sensory, intuitive mode.  Thus, we can just as easily feel remotely, as see, etc.

Also, I need to elaborate on what I said earlier because I realized that it was omitted. The thing was, when he also said that I described the thing exactly as it was... about 5 years ago in his home!

Does this mean that in an OOBE, you can also move backwards in the past? That is actually interesting...

OK, so in my experience with remote viewing and the OOBE one can move as freely in space as in time.  Thus, one can easily describe in great detail an event that took place at great distances and years, centuries, millennia, or even geological and/or galactic epochs with all 6 senses.

[Jhanon]

LOL. Well, it wasn't very intentional, I guess I need to train myself to be intentional...

All of the charisms arise naturally. There is no need to train for them, other than to lead a rigorous, self-aware contemplative life.  However, one will find it useful to have guidance along the way, which is what this forum is about.

So from what I gather... Remote viewing only concerns sights, yes?

Not really.  The term "Remote viewing" is misleading, because all of our senses are available to us in a non-sensory, intuitive mode.  Thus, we can just as easily feel remotely, as see, etc.

Also, I need to elaborate on what I said earlier because I realized that it was omitted. The thing was, when he also said that I described the thing exactly as it was... about 5 years ago in his home!

Does this mean that in an OOBE, you can also move backwards in the past? That is actually interesting...

OK, so in my experience with remote viewing and the OOBE one can move as freely in space as in time.  Thus, one can easily describe in great detail an event that took place at great distances and years, centuries, millennia, or even geological and/or galactic epochs with all 6 senses.

Thank you, Jhananda. I'm afraid I really did a disservice with my discombobulated response. But you were much clearer.

[bodhimind]

No do not worry, it was a good reply too Jhanon. Thanks for the advice and elaborations so far.

[Jhanon]

You're most welcome For me, it's a pleasure just to have someone as committed as you active on this forum. Ask away! We could talk for days on end without break, and still couldn't cover a significant amount of all the amazing, extraordinary fruits of higher consciousness.

[Cal]

Recently during my meditation sits Ive noticed in the 3rd Jhana many different "settings" can appear. The clarity of them is still shoddy. Ive read that faces are something that are easily recognizable to humans. We readily identify them in shapes, paintings, obscure images etc. So the "face" in these setting have been most noticeable, then the rest of the set gets recognized after. Now these are brief "flashes" that vary in length per occurance. Last nights meditation sit produced 6 different "flashes". The only explanation I can come up with for them is remote viewing.

So i try to recall the intent during the moment of these experiences. It's simply "observe what is in the visual field". Most always this is static snow, or khaldiscope like shapes, and then these "experiences" flash in. I post this to share, but also to ask, how does one hone that level of "concentration" (for lack of a better word) required to both be "cohereant" in OOBE or lucid dreaming states, as well as remote viewing experiences? I understand that continually subscribing to the spiritual phenomena could possibly lead to increased clarity over time, as im sure it has to this point. But, recently I've read some interesting things that have to do with chi control. Is the third eye a metaphorical muscle that needs to be excersized?



 

[Jhanananda]

Recently during my meditation sits Ive noticed in the 3rd Jhana many different "settings" can appear. The clarity of them is still shoddy. Ive read that faces are something that are easily recognizable to humans. We readily identify them in shapes, paintings, obscure images etc. So the "face" in these setting have been most noticeable, then the rest of the set gets recognized after. Now these are brief "flashes" that vary in length per occurance. Last nights meditation sit produced 6 different "flashes". The only explanation I can come up with for them is remote viewing.

This is a pretty good description of the experience of the visual charism.  The trick is not to allow one's mind to engage with the image content, and best to allow it all just to be raw lumanance, instead of recognizable images.

So i try to recall the intent during the moment of these experiences. It's simply "observe what is in the visual field". Most always this is static snow, or khaldiscope like shapes, and then these "experiences" flash in.

This is right contemplation.

I post this to share, but also to ask, how does one hone that level of "concentration" (for lack of a better word) required to both be "cohereant" in OOBE or lucid dreaming states, as well as remote viewing experiences? I understand that continually subscribing to the spiritual phenomena could possibly lead to increased clarity over time, as im sure it has to this point.

To "hone" the 3rd stage of depth in favor of arriving at greater depth, then one just lets go, allows all of the phenomena to go by, without clinging to any of it, but while attending to it with mindful self-awareness.

But, recently I've read some interesting things that have to do with chi control. Is the third eye a metaphorical muscle that needs to be excersized?

It depends upon what you are seeking.  If you are seeking control, then you will want to exercise the "muscle."  If, on the other hand, you are simply seeking depth, for the purpose of final liberation, then just let go, and slide on through, allowing the phenomena to just happen, and sweep you away into oblivion.

[Cal]

Recently during my meditation sits Ive noticed in the 3rd Jhana many different "settings" can appear. The clarity of them is still shoddy. Ive read that faces are something that are easily recognizable to humans. We readily identify them in shapes, paintings, obscure images etc. So the "face" in these setting have been most noticeable, then the rest of the set gets recognized after. Now these are brief "flashes" that vary in length per occurance. Last nights meditation sit produced 6 different "flashes". The only explanation I can come up with for them is remote viewing.

This is a pretty good description of the experience of the visual charism.  The trick is not to allow one's mind to engage with the image content, and best to allow it all just to be raw lumanance, instead of recognizable images.

Right, the biggest mistake I have made has been to think "what was that", or try to interpret the experience in the moment. Every time I have it has led to a regression in the session. Normally though, it is recoverable, I only must return to the intent of observing.

I post this to share, but also to ask, how does one hone that level of "concentration" (for lack of a better word) required to both be "cohereant" in OOBE or lucid dreaming states, as well as remote viewing experiences? I understand that continually subscribing to the spiritual phenomena could possibly lead to increased clarity over time, as im sure it has to this point.

To "hone" the 3rd stage of depth in favor of arriving at greater depth, then one just lets go, allows all of the phenomena to go by, without clinging to any of it, but while attending to it with mindful self-awareness.

After re-reading my post I realized that I asked 2 completely different questions. Thank you for your response, I understand.

But, recently I've read some interesting things that have to do with chi control. Is the third eye a metaphorical muscle that needs to be excersized?

It depends upon what you are seeking.  If you are seeking control, then you will want to exercise the "muscle."  If, on the other hand, you are simply seeking depth, for the purpose of final liberation, then just let go, and slide on through, allowing the phenomena to just happen, and sweep you away into oblivion.

This is very interesting. Thank you for making perspective clear. In regards to the third eye chakra, I do not think its that I seek to cultivate the experience, nor is it that I wish to do anything with this. The driver to my question was perhaps to allow interpretation of the visual experience, yet, if annihilation is what I ultimately seek, then simply showing up for the experience itself is what becomes important.

Hmm, I need to learn to be more self-aware moment to moment and not let curiosity drive me. What would you say helped you the most in contemplating thoughts as they arose, Jhananada? I've thought some to scientific methodology. If i could base my thought process around a clear guideline and not detour from this, I think I could be more self-aware, moment to moment. One of the things I've learned I dislike about myself is I'll go on this tangent here, write out this long 'something or other" only to realize that in doing so Ive allowed myself to contemplate what it was I was talking about, and also that i already had the answer to the question I was asking.

Interesting that if I was to be absorbed throughout the day, as I could and should be, these thoughts would not arise at all. It seems as though at every turn I've attempted to weasel out of the reality of what is. There is only one way.