In search of understanding...

[Cal]

I don't even know where to begin...Let me start with some background. I have no formal, or informal, education in Buddhism, Suttas, or any Literature on the subject of meditation. Nor have I ever practiced meditation, or sought to until recently. I've recently re-connected with a member of this forum through Facebook. I say "reconnected" when in reality, he and I were only an aquaitence at best. This is hard to put into words, but his way with words compelled me to engage in conversation. There was something about the way that he wrote that hit close to home.

There was a dark time in my life when i was very young. I had a very close family member pass away, and the effects of this complicated my life on an extreme level. It was years before I was able to find a way to "cope" if you will, and everything previous to this was an angry time. I started to look inward. I started looking inward at others. I strove to try and find an answer to the "why" of others, on every level. And thats all i remember...I draw a blank, its a foggy time from then after. But when I seen these posts on Facebook, they called out to me...This person had done the same and I seen it without a doubt in every one of his words.

We began to talk, I engaged him in what i thought was the same emotions that I had experienced in my dark times. He confirmed what I believed and more. He suggested that Meditation may be avenue for me, although, when I spoke to him, it was not in search of anything. I know it sounds crazy, but its almost as if he knew me, and I him, when there is no way that could be. (All of this is completely out of character for me, and if it werent for the extremety of this situation i find myself in, i would never share it publicly, or privately for that matter) So I meditated the day before yesterday, he helped guide me. The experience was something I never expected...

I remind you, I had no knowledge of Buddhism or Jhananandas' "directions" or "guidance", I only started reading here yesterday. Within 10 minutes of starting to meditate, i felt a "radiance" around me. It was mostly in my hands, then i started to feel it elsewhere. Soon after I was able to almost channel it, amplify it,  mostly in my right hand. It spread until I started to feel an intense tingling sensation go up my spine right to the top of my head, repeatedly. Tears started to fall, but although i was aware of them, it wasnt a sensation. My focus was on the heat that my body was generating. As i continued the feeling overwhelmed me, I became completely concious of something else. I started to drift in and out of reality, all while being almost hyper aware of everything, mostly of my "aura". Then my friend of this forum asked me to stop, I was litterally on the edge of something extremely spectacular...

The next day i was completely aware of my aura, i felt it, I feel it. I meditated that night as well, this time unguided, and the results have me scared. Scared that I am on the edge of something that will consume me. That this "worldly" life that the masses live, that I have been trained my entire life to fit the mold of, is crumbling. I cant let this happen! My family and specifically my daughter MUST have me here with them...I write here in search of criticism, tell me this isnt real! Although I know it is...

[Sam Lim]

Hi Cal and welcome to the forum. To put in simple terms, you are having a kundalini awakening. Sometimes , it could be very frightening. The matter is, is to let go of that fear. Fear would certainly consume you in a very negative way. From what you describe, it sounds like something is wonderful is happening to you and it also might just be glimpse of what you can achieve. Happiness and letting go of your past is the keyword here. Cheers.

[Jhanon]

Cal, I should have mentioned by now that some of the people on here raised families while going through what you have begun to experience. Jhananda, for example. He says he would wake up before everyone else, meditate, then go to work. Then he would come home, kiss the wife and kids, and meditate. Is that much different from coming home and playing video games or watching TV or fishing?

I almost left my companion and daughter, as terrible as it always sounded to think about it. There were reasons I truly felt it would be to their mutual benefit if I left. It wasn't a selfish notion, and was based on my past--not my progress in meditation. But, Jhananda's story, although I'm sure not empty of strife, encouraged me to move forward. My companion is fully aware of what I am going through, what I experience, and even that I intend this to be my last lifetime as a human. But she is supportive and understanding. She even experiences charisms because of my presence, which she enjoys.

The things I've gone through, like you are, changed me in a way that makes people want to be near me. It's healing, and helps them to live from their heart--like they want to. They feel comforted, accepted, and free. My families life situation will most likely never be socially approved; but what's most important to humans is to be loved, accepted, and as free from suffering as they can be. For me, this seems to be working out.

But once we find a way to make peace, through the contemplative life, it's really okay whatever happens. I'm writing a paper on perception and how its ordinary limitations cause so much suffering and confusion. Any of us can look back on a situation we thought was terrible, and then see how it became the greatest thing that ever happened to us. Both of those are an illusion which perception creates. Because in the end, it just IS. Here is an excerpt from that paper I wrote. The whole paper will go up in my philosophy thread later:

"Let's say a massive asteroid hits our planet tomorrow, destroying all human life. Also, let us say there are a handful of humans developing the first colony on mars who, by some unknown mechanic of living on mars, live to be billions of years old. Those humans might look at the event on earth and think "what a terrible event." However, aeons later, an even more peaceful and abundant earth population of humans sprouts up in it's wake. Then those same witnesses might look back and say "What a good event." Then, let us say the same thing happens, in many different ways, with many different results, over many, many aeons, and these humans who have all this in recorded history are looking it over. They would say "This happened."

In other words, "good" and "bad", our preferences and desires, are a matter of limited perception. It just IS."

[Cal]

Thank you so much for offering another perspective gandarloda and Jhanon...I'm going to take some time to study, and learn. Thank you for allowing me to share that, it was a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.

[Jhanon]

Cal, this is a post related to your current mind state from another "novice" on the forum. I think you may find it helpful

Far beyond what you thought we could explore? My, my! That does sound exciting.

Yes I am coming from not believing in chakras, stigmata, and many other religious things. To find out that I can feel the chakras like physical entities inside of me, feeling an aura around my whole body, having extremely lucid dreams, and knowing to that this is still the beginning. It has brought such a refreshing side to my life that I feel like dropping to my knees in tears. After hating so much of the things I have had to do in this lifetime, this is one thing that I have felt that I so badly want to keep close to my heart. The charisms have been strong (for me) but yet subtle at the same time. The charisms have felt more like the sacred to me lately, it is a place that when I am so hurt and confused, I can give myself up to the bliss and it feels like an angel picking me up to embrace me and allow me to let my pain go. I am still working to adjust my worldly life so that it is not so stressful, so that I may more fully enjoy these charisms that have been a blessing in disguise for me. I spent nearly a year so afraid of the bliss, but it is finally starting to feel better.

Just wanting to say that I have not been having such stressful dreams lately. I even saw some friends that I have not seen in years last night, and held hands with two of them letting them know how much I loved them for being good to me while I knew them. Made me wake up wanting to cry, but in a good way. I had not let myself ever tell them how I felt in real life, so it felt relieving to even though I never had intention of doing so. I understand that it might not have even been real, but the feelings I felt were.

[Jhanananda]

Welcome, Cal, and thank-you friends for welcoming him here.  Cal, from your description it is clear to me that you tapped into the charism right away, which is surely due to skilled guidance from someone who has the genuine attainment of the charisms.  The wisdom here is to follow those charisms to greater depths through surrender in deep meditation.

I wish I could say more, but I am very limited in time, and will have to retreat into the wilderness shortly.  Welcome, and make yourself home here.

[Cal]

"And what sort of mental absorption did he praise? There is the case where a monk -- quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities -- enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thought & evaluation, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation -- internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains in equanimity, mindful & alert, and physically sensitive of pleasure. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasurable abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain -- as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress -- he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is the sort of mental absorption that the Blessed One praised.

This is wow...I dont even have the words to describe how absolutely acurate this is...(Admittedly I dont fully understand the meanings of the adjectives, only the feelings that I feel. So I relate the adjectives used as a progression through.) The progression is just as its written. Although, in my own experience, when in the 4th (which is clear to me now that is what it is) I almost immediately start to see this "blue flame" from the outsides of my eyes that forms a ball that rapidly moves away and turns from a blue ball to a ball of bright light, it gets smaller as it moves away and increases speed exponetially. It will come and go throughout my sessions. When i embrace it, no accept it...I guess when i "let go" "I" stop and am blurred. Its like turning on and off a television. Is this the 5th Samadhi? Rather, the edge of? How can I stay in the 4th skillfully? Is the 4th Jhana that feeling of weightlessness? The almost nothingness?

[Cal]

As I read that passage over and over I think I answer my own questions. I'll be blunt-The path is to become ONE with exactly what is described in the passage above? Unity with oneself. It is superb in every way, I cannot deny it.

But why Jhananda? Is this our purpose? To know and to be...yet unfulfilled because even as ONE, you must return here. I don't understand. We cannot be always. I must suffer...I dont understand. Is it in the end or the beginning? Is this a test? Or is the purpose only to search? I see this coming to relinquishing thought and allowing fate...sorrow.

This is The test. "This is the sort of mental absorption that the Blessed One praised."

[Jhanananda]

I have a few problems with that translation, although I am not completely sure which sutta you are quoting, because the description is repeated in many suttas.  The one I translated is as follows:

The Noble Search
Ariyapariyesana Sutta (MN 26.28)
Translated from the Pali by Jhananda 11-02-06

"Monks, there are these five strings of sensuality. Which five? Forms cognizable via the eye — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Sounds cognizable via the ear — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Aromas cognizable via the nose — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Tastes cognizable via the tongue — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Tactile sensations cognizable via the body — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. These are the five strings of sensuality.

(1st Jhana)
"Suppose that a wild deer is living in a wilderness glen. Carefree it walks, carefree it stands, carefree it sits, carefree it lies down. Why is that? Because it has gone beyond the hunter's range. In the same way, a seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) renounces (vivicceva) sensuality (kàmehi), renounces unwholesome mental states and beliefs (akusalehi dhammehi) with applied and sustained attention (savitakkaü savicàraü) and bliss and joy (pãtisukhaü) one resides (viharati) in the clarity (upasampajja) of the first ecstasy (pañhamaü jhànaü). This seeker of Buddhahood is said to have blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara. Trackless (apadaü), he has destroyed Mara's vision (màracakkhuü) and has become invisible (adassanaü) to the Evil One (pàpimato).

 (2nd Jhana)
"Then again seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), originating from (ekodibhàvaü) applied and sustained attention (vitakkavicàrànaü) with clear intention (våpasamà) and a noble tranquil mind (sampasàdanaü cetaso), and in the absence of applied and sustained attention (avitakkaü avicàraü) with absorption (samàdhijaü) in bliss and joy (pãtisukhaü), one resides (viharati) in the clarity (upasampajja) of the second ecstasy (dutiyaü jhànaü). This seeker of Buddhahood is said to have blinded Mara. Trackless, he has destroyed Mara's vision and has become invisible to the Evil One.

 (3rd Jhana)
"Then again seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), Residing in (viharati) bliss (Pãtiyà), dispassion (viràgà) and equanimity (upekkhako); and with a luminous (sampajàno) joy-filled body (sukha°Ëca kàyena) a noble one (ariya) proclaims a joyful abiding (sukhavihàrãti) in the equanimity (upekkhako) and mindfulness (satimà) and clarity (upasampajja) of the third ecstasy (jhana). seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) is said to have blinded Mara. Trackless, he has destroyed Mara's vision and has become invisible to the Evil One.

 (4th Jhana)
"Then again seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), with the abandoning (pahànà) of pleasure (sukhassa) and anxiety (dukkhassa); and the earlier abandoning (pahànà pubbeva) of manic-depression (somanassadomanassànaü), agitation (atthaïgamà), suffering and unhappiness (adukkhamasukhaü); one arrives at (viharati) the clarity (upasampajja) and complete purity of mindful equanimity (upekkhàsatipàrisuddhiü) of the fourth ecstasy (catutthaü jhànaü). This, seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave), is said to have blinded Mara. Trackless, he has destroyed Mara's vision and has become invisible to the Evil One.

The Immaterial attainments
These are equivalent to Nirvikalpa samadhi
Fifth Samadhi or First Arupa Samadhi
Astral plane (àkàsànañcàyatanaü)
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), with complete (Sabbaso) transcendence of perceptions of the physical domain (råpasaññànaü), passing beyond (samatikkama) the rapacious material world (pañighasaññànaü), extinguishing (atthagamà) the variety of sensory perceptions (nànattasaññànaü), without the endless pull of mental activity (amanasikàrà ananto àkàsoti), one travels within (upasampajja viharati) the astral plane (àkàsànañcàyatanaü). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato).

Sixth Samadhi or Second Arupa Samadhi
the domain of volition, Vinnananaacayatana
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), with completely (Sabbaso) passing beyond (samatikkama) the astral plane (àkàsànañcàyatanaü), approaching (upasampajja) unbound (anantaü) volition (viññàõanti), one traverses (viharati) the domain of volition (viññàõañcàyatanaü). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato).

Seventh Samadhi or Third Arupa Samadhi
domain of no evil, Akincannayatana
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), completely (Sabbaso) passing beyond (samatikkama) the domain of volition (viññàõañcàyatanaü) free of evil (natthi kiñcãti) one traverses (viharati) the domain of no evil (àkiñcaññàyatanaü). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato).

Eighth Samadhi or Fourth Arupa Samadhi
Domain of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, Nevasannanasannnayatana
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), completely (Sabbaso) passing beyond (samatikkama) the domain of no evil (àkiñcaññàyatanaü) near to (upasampajja) limitless (anantaü) volition (viññàõanti) one traverses (viharati) the domain of neither-perception-nor-non-perception (nevasaññànàsaññàyatanaü). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato).

Liberation (nirodha) through Samadhi
Cessation, saññá-vedayita-nirodha, Nibanna
"Then again (Puna ca paraü) seekers of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu), completely (Sabbaso) passing beyond the domain of neither-perception-nor-non-perception (nevasaññànàsaññàyatanaü) to complete liberation from sensory perception (saññàvedayitanirodhaü), residing (viharati) within wisdom, having understood his taints through investigation (upasampajja). It is said (vuccati) this seeker of Buddhahood (bhikkhave bhikkhu) has blinded ('andhamakàsi) Mara (màraü). Trackless (apadaü) he has destroyed (vadhitvà) Mara's vision (màracakkhuü). He has disappeared from (adassanaü) and surpassed (gato) the Evil One (pàpimato). Having crossed over, he is unattached in the world. Carefree he walks, carefree he stands, carefree he sits, carefree he lies down. Why is that? Because he has gone beyond the Evil One's range."

The object of deep meditation is to renew ourselves in absorption everyday; which cleanses us of addictive behaviors, which are called "sins" in Christianity, and "fetters" in Buddhism.  When we die, then we enter into deep absorption, which takes us to high planes of existence, where we need not come back to this plane.

[Cal]

ajjhima Nikaya 108
Gopaka Moggallana Sutta (MN 108)
Moggallana the Guardsman
Ten Qualities Inspiring Confidence
Its was numbered as 27.

I believe that I read something somewhere of conflicting descriptions, or mis interpreted. It was in the progression of the passage that I found meaning. I recalled the sensations or shifts in feeling while progressing from jhana to jhana.

It was a very sorrowfull night for me last night as I came to a realization of existence. "Life", the one that we live and all others on this planet is truly one of suffering. I care not for myself, yet my compassion for others overwhelmed me as I contemplated on what truly is. Thankfully i was able to reach out to Jhanon, and as always, he spoke the right words to not only help me overcome this sorrow, but to refresh my own conviction.

Thank you Jhananda for making clear, Purpose. I struggle with Identity and Ego. As a product of this, I tend to require Purpose.

[Cal]

I've come to an understanding today, that a retreat from everything,everyone, and anything, is necessary. In the past 3 weeks since finding jhana, everything has went way too fast. The world hasn't stopped, I still have responsibilities that must be full filled. Yet I require a time of self contemplation, this much is clear. What is also clear, there is a way to listen to the guidance from inside that I haven't learned how to yet. Not fully. I wish everything could just stop for a week so that I can get my bearings and decide. I need to make this happen.

[Jhanon]

You speak of the perpetual struggle of lay life or "householder" life. My life has been one of extreme worldly responsibility, followed by "less." The former is debilitating and maddening. The latter is quite fulfilling. But, the former, I believe, exists for those who have it, for a reason (helping us along the path, or helping us help others along the path.) I only mean to show that we're talking about the Mysterious Way, as "Lao Tzu" would say.

[Cal]

Jhanananda, when you say that mastery of the 4th jhana is the relinquishing of the 10 fetters, you mean this litterally? That "space" and feeling therein is void of any fetters...when you say live the rigorous contemplative life, you mean stay in 4th jhana...this one is pretty obvious.

Here's my issue. I have been trying to understand the N8P. I can honestly say that the first 3 fetters are gone in my worldly life. The others make themselves apparent randomly. I have much work in this regard, yet I have only made progress in my meditation practice. Which I will admit is an hour a night after work, on the nights that I meditate. I try to make my hour of free time at home a day one of contemplation, then one of meditation. Anyway, I have only made progress...I just have to be blunt, the goal is not to practice the N8P, but to become it. While you are in 4th jhana, you are it. Therefore stay in 4th jhana. The worldly life has nothing to do with it. (Except that you must practice meditative absorption skillfully to the 4th jhana.) ??

One learns to become the 4th Jhana!! This would be perfect! I've never tried moving while there, I wonder it possible. I must explore this!!

...the Noble Eightfold Path is the 4th jhana, they are one and the same...

[Cal]

A part of me wants to delete the posts from last night, for reasons of insecurity. The other part of me wants them to stay so that I can reflect on them, even if in disgust.  Something happened to me last night on my drive home, I realized that I was observing my body. It acted of its own will, it was as if there we two of me in a sense, that could communicate and then ultimately come to a conclusion. I'm sure a head doctor would say that I am bipolar or delusional. Perhaps i am. After getting home I became aware of my "state" and began a conversation with Jhanon via texting. I was speaking to him as if I were "2" seperate forms. I didn't take his advice, I was sure. But slowly his words grounded me. He helped me come back from a place I had never been. Oh another thing, I was telling him that I could control "it" (host) and it fought back and regained control for a time. Thank you Jhanon, you are a true friend.

I need direction here very badly. Can anyone here deny or confirm this "state"? Can it be explained by other worldly definitions? I cannot let go of my past if this is my future, not yet.

I might add that a spent a good deal of time in an electrical panel room, in the factory that I work for.   10s of thousands of volts at various Hz. VAC, VDC, every variation of electricity is in this room, it's where I am right now lol. I remember telling jhanon that I could smell it yesterday when I absorbed deeper. I've been around this amount of electricity for most of my adult life, I've shocked the shot out of myself plenty even. Yet I have never been so aware of it. Could this be a factor?

[Cal]

I am afraid...