Alexander's Blog

[Intuition]

Alexander, if you seek a still mind (which I define as no thoughts) (2nd jhana), then I suggest you make this your practice: Always observe the contents of the mind, without either accepting or rejecting the contents, and without making any commentary on them. You merely witness the contents of the mind.

Try this practice as an experiment for 10 days, and see where that gets you. For more detailed info on this, go into my post history and look at my post on mindfulness. Suspend judgement on this enterprise until the end of the 10 days. Although you claim that it took Teresa of Avila 12 years to silence her mind, it shouldn't take you, nor anyone, anymore than 10 days.

[Alexander]

Hello Intuition,
My distinction here is between what I would define as the "still mind" (slowing down the thought streams, not going on long narrative digressions, stopping the flow of thoughts from one stream to another throughout the day) and the "silent mind" (which would be complete inward silence). For example I can sit here and read your post and be in a more-or-less thoughtless state, though a thought will arise as I read the post, or reflect on your question, etc. Then my practice is to ask "who has this thought?" and watch it subside.

Similarly, I can go through long stretches of the day and be in relative quiet; though day to day activities, stress, watching a video, talking to someone, etc, provoke the rising of thought. I then go through the process and ask "who has this thought?" and try to see the thoughts subside.

Having said that, having all these thoughts still emerge to me is an imperfection. It is just my feeling there is a deeper state in which there are no self-arising thoughts at all. That would then be "silence." For example you write on your blog post you have some issues with OCD thoughts. That shows you may have inward quiet, but not silence.

[Alexander]

A few paradigm shifts since last week.

1. For some reason it seems I had the idea the still mind evolves into a superior "silent mind" in which no thought provocations arise. Perhaps this is achievable in an OOB state but after years of striving for perfect "silence" using all kinds of mechanisms in the here and now it seems to not be a good use of effort. The "still mind" will suffice.

2. I have been consuming more literature on astral projection / the OOB state recently. I have been reading through Robert Monroe's original book on OOBEs and browsing some posts and guides by people who claim to be able to have OOBEs. I have been reading these with a good mix of openness and skepticism. Many of the ideas challenge well established notions. For example, one person claims to have interacted with aliens, been tackled by astral projecting secret service agents, etc. It may be in this higher reality there are deceptions there too.

3. It seems I got the idea (from one of the Buddhist sutras somewhere) that it was necessary to master jhanas 1-4 to achieve enlightenment and the OOB state was of secondary importance. It seems I also developed some unclear ideas from reading mystical literature; for instance, the concept of the "unitive state" or "spiritual marriage" as a state in the here and now as the highest goal.

4. Reading Monroe's account - and the accounts of others who have had OOBEs - it seems many of them have them with no prior preparation or meditation experience. I do not have a good narrative here and am honestly losing interest in creating one; it is what is. Monroe writes he had a nonexistent interest in religious questions prior to his experience; he experienced his first OOBEs just from relaxing deeply.

5. Monroe's account testifies to the reality of the nonphysical, and on the survival of the spiritual after death. At the same time, it emphasizes the importance of trying to achieve this experience while alive, so one can be prepared for the end.

6. From Evelyn Underhill, Gurdjieff, and similar writers I had the idea that those who experience OOBEs have been through the "mystical way." For example, they have gone through a process of metanoia (the transformation of the mind and emotions) - also called "purgation" in monastic literature - and the dark night of the soul, etc. Reading some of the accounts of people who have been OOB, it seems many have these experiences at an extremely young age with no prior preparation. So, this undermines all these neat narratives of how the mystical life works or develops. Though I do not lament my years of training and study and discipline, it is a paradigm shift.

7. Stopped meditating sitting. Meditating now lying on the back in bed, and orienting most sessions now to begin about an hour or two prior to sleeping. Focusing mostly on bodily motionlessness.

8. It seems the goal may be to reach what is called "sleep paralysis" and then "pull" oneself or "roll" oneself out of the body. I have never experienced this state of paralysis before, though I have felt the limbs and body parts "tingle" or change as you remain motionless for long periods.

9. It seems being still for 1 hour is not a long enough time. This is what I have been doing and it may not be enough. I have been trying to find people giving time frames to give a better perspective. Some people claim paralysis can happen within 20 minutes, others say 1 hour or more.

10. The paralysis / OOB state may have something to do with sleep phase (unclear). One writer is absolutely vehement it only happens during "phase 2" (?) of sleep. So what he writes is one should take a nap in the afternoon (uses your "phase 1" of sleep) then go back to bed with the bodily motionlessness practice to provoke the OOBE. I don't nap often but I may try to get an hour or two less of sleep one of these nights and give it a try.

11. It seems I should expect blindness and a lack of other senses, strong sexual desire, and a difficulty separating from the physical body if I can provoke an OOB state. It seems sight and the other senses "develop." I should also expect, apparently, not to remember the experience and that for this reason I should write it down.

12. It seems the experience of being OOB (I am writing as someone with no experience of it) gradually results in a development of senses in the "astral" body but then after sufficient time elapses it shifts into a wholly different experience as a formless being.

13. It seems sex in the physical world is a shadow version of intimate contact in the nonphysical world.

14. It seems OOB experiences take on two forms: one in which one has the experience of separating from the body and finding oneself in the present environment; and one in which there is no experience like this and in which one just finds oneself spiritually in a wholly other place. This distinction really clarifies a lot and helps make it a lot less confusing.

15. Dreams, it seems, are in fact the lowest plane of the spiritual world and each night pretty much everyone visits the spirit world though they do so in a "drunk" or "unconscious" state. This is honestly a huge understanding to have in our world of 2019. Dreams are usually dismissed as oddities or events of moderate psychoanalytical interest but not much else. It seems that our distant ancestors, before the rise of technology, may have been quite active while asleep - which would explain much of the folklore around shamans, medicine men, etc - and with the advent of technology and materialism we lost this understanding.

16. Lucid dreams seem to be a "created" reality (no experience with these either) but are still illusions. The out of body state is an interaction with a "real" world (?) though the concept of real changes quite dramatically here...

17. Reflecting back on all this it is quite an extraordinary journey to come to this. It is indeed true the "straight and narrow path" is found by few and that "human beings are not supposed to find the spiritual path." Being born in the world one has no idea; the idea of there not being a spirit, atheism, materialism, etc, could be just as plausible as there being one from normal understanding. All the established religions with their corrupt priesthoods also lead one astray. Enlightenment itself could have been many things for all one knew and one might imagine it could have nothing to do with the "fantastic."

18. I think of all those philosophers I read over the years who got side tracked thinking about other topics (economics, politics, etc...) missing the real goal of philosophy; or of Kant who thought there was no way one could have definitive knowledge of the spiritual one way or the other. I have to say I am glad there ended up being a spiritual realm and the like and it makes the whole cosmos a great deal more interesting. ;p

19. Been contemplating the reincarnation question and its relationship with karma, justice, free will, and destiny. Some of the OOB writers seem to say animal spirits are different from human spirits. This contradicts the usual Buddhist teaching that a human can descend and be incarnated as an animal with negative karma. I also question how one can obtain freedom if one lacks the cognitive powers of humans. Finding the "way" is hard enough in itself. Not sure...

20. Been contemplating one strange idea I got from Gurdjieff which I've seen repeated by Monroe. These are honestly the only places I have encountered such a thing. Gurdjieff said "archangels" feed off the suffering and deaths of humans; that the whole earth is a kind of prison for their benefit. It seems Monroe had a similar idea which he mentioned once called the "loosh" farm... no idea what to think of it. If true it makes human life extremely bleak and intrinsically manipulated. But perhaps it is an allegorical / teaching tool.

21. Been thinking about Plato and Socrates, the idea the physical world is an "emanation" of the higher spiritual world, and the World of the Forms. These great Greek philosophers had the right idea...

[Naman]

I know a neat trick which works for me and you have already mentioned it here,,,  that worked for me everyday for straight 2 months and i have recorded all of the experiences. I only abandoned it cause it wasnt making me feel like i was progressing  in meditation. It involved same method of sleeping an hour less and then meditating for 30mins or so and then going back to sleep without moving a muscle..

[Alexander]

22. I think of my cousin who works at a hedge fund. Such a different path he has followed: following the wisdom of the world, a life filled with stress and anxiety and endless work hours, trying to accumulate wealth. And yet that wealth (as I intuited at a young age) only lasts so long. The same with my friend who is sex-obsessed. And here I have followed this (apparently ;p) foolish path, with this lifestyle that is simple and unambitious, and yet reach this otherworldly wisdom and have the potential for freedom. Life is a harsh place and very complex.

I know a neat trick which works for me and you have already mentioned it here,,,  that worked for me everyday for straight 2 months and i have recorded all of the experiences. I only abandoned it cause it wasnt making me feel like i was progressing  in meditation. It involved same method of sleeping an hour less and then meditating for 30mins or so and then going back to sleep without moving a muscle..

Thanks, Naman, I have not tried it yet. I usually never have naps unless I really mess up my sleep schedule. I will give it a try soon!

[Alexander]

A few thoughts from the last couple days.

And yet, at times, in visiting Locale II, a very unusual event
periodically occurs. It makes no difference where in Locale II, the
event is the same.
In the midst of normal activity, whatever it may be, there is a distant
Signal, almost like heraldic trumpets. Everyone takes the Signal calmly,
and with it, everyone stops speaking or whatever he may be doing. It is
the Signal that He (or They) is coming through His Kingdom.
There is no awestruck prostration or falling down on one's knees.
Rather, the attitude is most matter-of-fact It is an occurrence to which
all are accustomed and to comply takes absolute precedence over
everything. There are no exceptions.
At the Signal, each living thing lies down-my impression is on their
backs, bodies arched to expose the abdomen (not the genitals), with head
turned to one side so that one does not see Him as He passes by. The
purpose seems to be to form a living road over which He can travel. I
have gleaned the idea that occasionally He will select someone from this
living bridge, and that person is never seen or heard from again. The
purpose of the abdominal exposure is an expression of faith and complete
submissiveness, the abdomen being the most vulnerable part of the body
or the area that can suffer damage most easily. There is no movement,
not even thought, as He passes by. Everything has come to a momentary
standstill, full and complete, while He passes.

Monroe gives this story in his book and I wanted to bring it up here because it made me immediately think of the Buddhist sutras. I recall reading years ago that in the deva world the Buddha says there is a delusional creator god who thinks he is the father of the universe. I remember that distinctly because I found it such an oddity. So, it sounds like this could be that deluded deity.

To me, it was a place or condition of pure peace, yet exquisite emotion.
It was as if you were floating in warm soft clouds where there is no up
or down, where nothing exists as a separate piece of matter. The warmth
is not merely around you, it is of you and through you. Your perception
is dazzled and overwhelmed by the Perfect Environment.
The cloud in which you float is swept by rays of light in shapes and
hues that are constantly changing, and each is good as you bathe in them
as they pass over you. Ruby-red rays of light, or something beyond what
we know as light, because no light ever felt this meaningful. All the
colors of the spectrum come and go constantly, never harshly, and each
brings a different soothing or restful happiness. It is as if you are
within and a part of the clouds surrounding an eternally glowing sunset,
and with every changing pattern of living color, you also change. You
respond and drink into you the eternity of the blues, yellows, greens,
and reds, and the complexities of the intermediates. All are familiar to
you. This is where you belong. This is Home.
As you move slowly and effortlessly through the cloud, there is music
around you. It is not something of which you become aware. It is there
all the time, and you vibrate in harmony with the Music. Again, this is
more than the music you knew back there. It is only those harmonies, the
delicate and dynamic melodic passages, the multivoiced counterpoint, the
poignant overtones-it is only those that have evoked in you the deep,
incoherent emotion back there. The mundane is missing. Choirs of humansounding
voices echo in wordless song. Infinite patterns of strings in
all shades of subtle harmony interweave in cyclical yet developing
themes, and you resonate with them. There is no source from which the
Music comes. It is there, all around you, in you, you are a part of it,
and it is you.
It is the purity of a truth of which you have had only a glimpse. This
is the feast, and the tiny tidbits you tasted before, back there, had
made you hope for the existence of the Whole. The nameless emotion,
longing, nostalgia, sense of destiny that you felt back there when you
stared at the cloud-layered sunset in Hawaii, when you stood quietly
among the tall, waving trees in the silent forest, when a musical
selection, passage, or song recalled memories of the past or brought
forth a longing for which there was no associated memory, when you
longed for the place where you belonged, whether city, town, country,
nation, or family-these are now fulfilled. You are Home. You are where
you belong. Where you always should have been.
Most important, you are not alone. With you, beside you, interlocked in
you are others. They do not have names, nor are you aware of them as
shapes, but you know them and you are bonded to them with a great single
knowledge. They are exactly like you, they are you, and like you, they
are Home. You feel with them, like gentle waves of electricity passing
between you, a completeness of love, of which all the facets you have
experienced are but segments and incomplete portions. Only here, the
emotion is without need of intense display or demonstration. You give
and receive as an automatic action, with no deliberate effort. It is not
something you need or that needs you. The "reaching out" is gone. The
interchange flows naturally. You are unaware of differences in sex, you
yourself as a part of the whole are both male and female, positive and
negative, electron and proton. Man-woman love moves to you and from you,
parent-child-sibling-idol and idyll and ideal-all interplay in soft
waves about you, in you, and through you. You are in perfect balance
because you are where you belong. You are Home.
Within all of this, yet not a part of it, you are aware of the source of
the entire span of your experience, of you, of the vastness beyond your
ability to perceive and/or imagine. Here, you know and easily accept the
existence of the Father. Your true Father. The Father, the Creator of
all that is or was. You are one of His countless creations. How or why,
you do not know. This is not important. You are happy simply because you
are in your Right Place, where you truly belong.
Each of the three times I went There, I did not return voluntarily. I
came back sadly, reluctantly. Someone helped me return. Each time after
I returned, I suffered intense nostalgia and loneliness for days. I felt
as an alien might among strangers in a land where things were not
"right," where everything and everyone was so different and so "wrong"
when compared with where you belonged. Acute loneliness, nostalgia, and
something akin to homesickness. So great was it that I have not tried to
go There again.

What he describes is consistent with the Empyrean (the supreme heaven) in Dante's Paradiso, which he envisioned as the Highest Heaven, a revolving Sempiternal Rose in which the petals were devas simultaneously in union with the absolute while also retaining their individuality:

https://imgur.com/a/hFw3N3O

I am not aware of any of Dante's writings where he goes into an explanation of the mystical life, though I have always assumed based on the Divine Comedy that he was a mystic.

We see the same portrayal of the Empyrean in a illustration made by the German Christian mystic Hildegard of Bingen:

https://imgur.com/a/605znSL

9/9/60 Night
I was lying in a north-south position, when I suddenly felt bathed in
and transfixed by a very powerful beam that seemed to come from the
north, about 30° above the horizon. I was completely powerless, with no
will of my own, and I felt as if I were in the presence of a very strong
force-in personal contact with it.
It had intelligence of a form beyond my comprehension, and it came
directly (down the beam?) into my head, and seemed to be searching every
memory in my mind. 1 was truly frightened because I was powerless to do
anything about this intrusion,
This intelligence force entered my head just above the forehead, and
offered no calming thoughts or words. It didn't seem to be aware of any
of my feelings or emotions. It was looking impersonally, hurriedly, and
definitely for something specific in my mind. After a while (perhaps
only moments) it left, and I "reintegrated," arose, shaken, and went
outside for some fresh air.

9/16/60 Night
The same impersonal probing, the same power, from the same angle.
However, this time I received the firm impression that I was
inextricably bound by loyalty to this intelligence force, always had
been, and that I had a job to perform here on earth. The job was not
necessarily to my liking, but 1 was assigned to it. The impression was
that I was manning a "pumping station," that it was a dirty, ordinary
job but it was mine and I was stuck with it, and nothing, absolutely
nothing could alter the situation.
I got the impression of huge pipes, so ancient they were covered with
undergrowth and rust. Something like oil was passing through them, but
it was much higher in energy than oil, and vitally needed and valuable
elsewhere (assumption: not on this material planet) . This has been
going on for aeons of time, and there were other force groups here,
taking out the same material on some highly competitive basis, and the
material was convertible at some distant point or civilization for
something very valuable to entities far above my ability to understand.
Again, the intelligence force moved out and away quickly, and the
visitation ended. I got up after a bit, feeling depressed, and went into
the bathroom in our house, and actually felt I should wash my hands
after working (although my hands were clean).

And I wanted to bring this account up from near the end of Monroe's book as a follow up to my earlier post.

These journal entries here are accompanied with a whole parable in which Monroe explains earth as an "experiment" gone awry; that cold alien intelligences observe us like rats in a maze; and that they are using us for some other purpose.

What Monroe describes here is consistent with the Gurdjieff idea we are "food for the moon" or that the earth is some sort of energy farm being exploited by alien intelligences.

I find it interesting most of Monroe's alien encounters seem to have taken place early in his OOB experiences.

I am mostly basing this off Jeff's conclusions which he has written over the years like:

The fact that he invokes the concept of alien abduction, verses the OOBE, I find his work tainted.  I would prefer to see him recognize that he had an OOBE, if he did.

there are a fair number of people who have near death experiences who experience an OOBE, and some people randomly experience OOBEs during sleep, and as Luke mentioned the OOBE is often mistaken for an alien abduction.

I have examined a number of UFO abduction stories and they all read like classic OOBEs.

it is very unlikely that space aliens have come here from a planet far-far-away.

While I have had many encounters with apparent high tech cultures and apparent space aliens while in an OOBE; nonetheless most of those high tech cultures were not evident when space probes were sent to those planets.  Thus, it is my conclusion that the space alien premise is the product of misunderstanding various phenomena.

My documentation here is an effort to show that these natural phenomena are either misinterpreted OOBEs, or experimental air and space research vehicles, and/or misunderstood natural phenomena, such as mirages.

The immaterial domains, and the OOBE are commonly misinterpreted.  Misinterpreted phenomena on the immaterial domains is a product of people who are: dreaming, or dead, or in an OOBE, who collectively create a domain in the immaterial (spirit) world, where an apparent high tech culture exists, but it is simply a collective fabrication of the mind (delusion).

So, it seems that Monroe and Gurdjieff may have both been mistaken in this regard, misunderstanding delusions in the collective unconscious as bona fide aliens. It seems the OOB writer I read last week (who wrote about astral projecting secret service agents, "greys," etc) might share this delusion. But, I am just evaluating it as best I can.

[Alexander]

The experiments begin.

1. As of now, no progress on a meditation induced OOBE. Some theories on why this may be:
(1) Duration. It simply requires a very long session in order to induce. The theory here would state session length must be increased to reach the OOBE. Even with this young body, it is hard to sit upright for more than 1 hour. Even lying down in bed motionless for over 90 minutes is difficult.
(2) Vibrational state. Monroe writes that through relaxing deeply, he induces what he calls a "vibrational state" in which he can feel oscillating waves spreading throughout the body. I have not experienced this. Though I have experienced a "tingling" or other sensations I would be just as willing to attribute these to imagination. The theory here would state that persistent practice would eventually result in the "vibrational state" leading to further progress.
(3) Need for a "first" OOBE. Many of the accounts I read of these OOB writers describe an initial first experience which was not anticipated; in many cases it came as a total accident or surprise. After this, OOBEs occurred at regular intervals whether desired or not. If this is the case the theory would follow that a first OOB experience must be provoked in some way through much effort and trial and error, and that the experience would naturally follow in further attempts from there.
(4) The "phase 2" of sleep theory. I mentioned this one earlier. As of now this is the one I am leaning furthest towards. This is mostly a product of my many long hours of meditation with no extraordinary experiences. It just seems there is some nuance about consciousness or the like that I am missing. But, further investigation is required.
(5) Attention level. One of the OOB writers I read mentioned there is a "happy medium" required for the attention to induce the OOBE. He said it is neither a state of complete focus nor one of daydreaming sleepiness. There is a state in between these that, when maintained, results in the OOBE. If there is anything to this this theory would likely state I am too attentive, and the concentration should wander for it to work. Not sure about this one and it contradicts all the traditional experience I have had with meditation.

2. Only two entries worth recounting from the dream log.
4/29 Dreamed about standing up, walking out of bed, and writing an entry in the dream log. A "false awakening."
5/2 An interesting one here. Happened to drink quite a lot of fluid before sleeping. Usually go to the bathroom before trying to sleep to avoid having to wake up in the middle of the night. I did so, however my bladder awoke me around 2 or 3 AM to use the bathroom anyway. Went back to sleep; used it as an opportunity for what OOB writers call a "wake back to bed." However, I was unable to stay motionless on my back. I was extremely agitated and restless trying to maintain a straight position on my back. I recall rolling onto my side, the body slightly curved in this posture that way. This was easier to maintain.
From here I have a memory of me raising my hand up and away from my physical hand. I then have a brief memory of moving slightly forward into the room. The reason I recount this as perhaps not being a dream was the sense of doing this in my normal consciousness. Perception and understanding were present in what I remember (these two factors are absent in dreams). At this point (it was only a very brief few moments) I paused and attempted to comprehend what was happening. This invoked thinking. Upon this the experience ended.
The experience above may entirely have been a dream; I do not know. I made a note of it in the log either way.

[Alexander]

1. Been asking my Inner Director "what should I do?" and "where should I go from here?" It has led me rightly throughout the whole journey till now. However, it is silent. No strong instructions, no strong "push" to do one thing or the other.

2. Trying to fully comprehend Buddhist cosmology and after death states. For example, in Buddhism there are the four noble ones:

I. Streamwinner (can only be reborn in human world or higher)
II. Once-returner (once more as a human)
III. Nonreturner (reborn in heavenly world)
IV. Arahant (enlightenment)

Based on the above, when one attains nonreturning one is reborn in the heavenly worlds. Though this raises several questions. In Buddhism, nonreturners don't return to lower worlds. But this seems to contradict the idea that higher world existence is impermanent; that the devas can descend to lower states of existence. Does this mean that one can be reborn in higher worlds just due to virtue or good karma, but without the quest for liberation?

3. The OOB state is making me reconsider what the definition of "enlightenment" is. It seems many people have these OOB experiences with no interest in religious-philosophical questions. It makes me recall the Buddhist sutra I mentioned earlier - when the Buddha said one might go OOB but not be enlightened. Though the experience necessarily results in a dramatic change of views, the question arises: are all those who have OOBEs enlightened? Or can one have these experiences and not be?

4. This raises the question: what is enlightenment? This is such a hard question to answer; scouring all of Christianity and many of the world's religions and philosophies there are few answers. The best we have likely lies in Buddhism, relying on the fetters to judge progress:

I. Overcome
- Identity view
- Attachment to rites and rituals
- Doubt about the teachings
II. Weakened
- Sensual desire
- Ill will
III. Overcome
- Sensual desire
- Ill will
IV. Overcome
- Attachment to form based existence
- Attachment to formless existence
- Conceit
- Restlessness
- Ignorance

This then raises the further question: can one be enlightened and not have the OOBE? Though it is unlikely one could fully overcome ignorance or the desire for existence with or without form without it.

Log
Experiments this week were mostly unsuccessful.
5/3 Attempted to repeat the "WBTB" experience using the "bladder method." This time I consciously tried to drink a lot of fluid to wake up in the middle of the night. Woke up at 11 PM (drank too much). No results.
5/4 A second attempt with the "bladder method." Woke up at 5 AM (drank too little). No results.
5/5 Last attempt with "bladder method." Woke up at 4 AM. Interrupted dreaming. I was in a "dreamlike" consciousness with many images spontaneously flowing. I only make note of this as it is mentioned as being significant by some OOB writers. Very hard to keep the body motionless and relaxed. No results.
5/6 It seems like I am wasting too many days with the bladder method. This time I set the alarm clock for 3 AM. I woke up then and a few other times in the night. The early awakenings were very stressful; high drowsiness and restlessness. Woke up at 4 AM and was able to be motionless and relaxed with the aid of music for about 20 minutes. No results. I am questioning if it would be prudent to physically get up or give the mind some time to reorient itself before making the meditation attempt.

1. Remembering more and having more entries for the dream log. Though I am likely still forgetting much.

2. It seems that the mind goes through phases during sleep:
https://i.imgur.com/S7DFLAk.jpg
According to one sleep scientist the brain enters dream-sleep several times in the night. That means when one recalls things for the log it is likely only from that last dream-phase. At the same time it is comforting as it means I am not forgetting many hours worth of dreams - most of the night is not spent dreaming.

3. Much of the dream content is nonsensical; like low value flotsam, it consists of images and information from media, TV, etc. It is just disappointing this is what my unconscious spends its time engaged with.

4. After reading Monroe's account of the "vibration" state I am becoming more conscious of it as a possible phenomenon. Have felt a couple occasional tingles now and then over the past weeks, often emerging when in a relaxed state. Though, they do not deepen to anything. It could just as well be imagination.

[Alexander]

Been doing some more reading on the out-of-body experience. This is quite a hard task because so much of the material out there on it is nonsense. At the same time, there is some interesting material out there too. Because it is so hard to discern between the two I am relying mostly on my Inner Director to give me direction on what to read.

Yesterday I discovered this interesting piece written by Frank Kepple: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Q7XAl2CagljydEHw4RxQwVXmeFB_X75a

It is quite a decent read, at 20,000 words, but there is some good stuff in it. I wanted to recount a few things here that I found interesting.

1. Frank's cosmology is broken up into four "phases":
- Phase 1 is the physical world (the one we are in now)
- Phase 2 is the dream world (this is limited to each person's inner world)
- Phase 3 is the form-based spiritual world
- Phase 4 is the formless spiritual world

I found this consistent with Buddhist cosmology.

2. Frank gives some very interesting accounts of "phase 4" reality:

1) It is an area of purely subjective reality. So nothing actually exists as an objective observable form. To feel your whole sense of 'body' totally disintegrate is not something you forget in a hurry. This is why I do not recommend beginners attempt Phasing to focus 4. There are no 'dangers' don’t get me wrong. But the effects are mind blowing and I do not say this lightly. Seeing my whole physical life as a *concept* changed my outlook on life significantly overnight. The notion of *concepts* is one that you will have to fully grasp in order to make headway in F4. In F4, everything is to do with subjective concepts and F4 is the source of all concepts that eventually manifest in objective reality. You can decide to merge with the underlying subjective energy that forms the concept of anything you care to think of and experience being that thing, or more correctly, the concept of that thing. You can experience being the concept of a flower, a rock, a cloud, an ant, or a human being. For the really adventurous, you can also experience more abstract concepts, like being a sound (this is fun!), or a day of the week - that's right, you can experience the concept of 'Tuesday'! There is no end of concepts that you can engage with - I told you it was freaky!

This is consistent with the World of the Forms described by Plato.

2) It is an area of simultaneous time, as opposed to linear time that we experience within this physical reality. So everything that is about to happen, has happened and is happening, is all happening at once within the same moment (within infinity everything happens an infinite number of times). This means of course that there is no death, no beginning or ending: everything just IS. However at the same time, there is ever-expanding consciousness. Hey, it's hard to get your head around, but who said infinite reality and the prospect of ever expanding consciousness would be easy! It's all part of the fun!

So what's Focus 4 like? Well, you need to realise that F4 is nothing like F1, F2 or F3. It's unique. You phase into what feels like a huge interconnecting communications network. In a way it’s like plugging your computer into the Internet. But you are plugging your mind into an infinite network of other minds. There is, of course, a LOT more to it than that. But in a nutshell that’s the simplest explanation I can come up with. While it is an exciting thing to do, I have to mention that it is not for the feint of heart, or for anyone who is not totally grounded in themselves mentally.

The “problem” you might say, is you can get to feeling like you have “lost your own mind”.

Thing is, we get so used to having only ourselves in mind. And communicating in this area is fully mind-to-mind. So what you do is merge your mind with another mind or minds (now multiple merging is really freaky, lol) and you communicate via thoughts, imagery, feelings, and so forth, in ways that are appropriate for the subject matter you are communicating about.

In a sense, though, it feels like someone is “invading” your mind, and the more egotistical parts of you may battle against it. With me it took about a hundred attempts before I became comfortable with the process.

The best way of thinking of Focus 4 in my opinion, is to think of it as the ultimate creative source of all that exists within our entire system. In other words, all the original plans, archetypes, models, etc., etc. of all the physical realities “connected” to Focus 4, are held within this area.

Focus 3 is a Transition Area that is reserved for people “returning” from their physical experience. People generally have to go through a period of shaking off all the belief constructs they brought into objective reality during their physical experience, to enable them to merge fully with the subjective reality of F4 again, at which point they can decide what to experience next. Focus 3 also has sections that serve as what could be termed areas of our “collective unconscious” but for our purposes, thinking of it as a Transition Area will suffice.

He does not describe the kind of "Sempiternal Rose" idea of the others but it is very similar. He describes phase 4 as a timeless, infinite Source from which everything else is derived from. In it exist endless transcendent Ideas and infinite possibilities. It is the origin of everything in the cosmos: the spiritual and the physical. His description here makes me think of the World Tree (Yggdrasil) in Norse mythology, in terms of how the universe comes into being, and of the film The Fountain.

Parallel Universes:

The Wider Physical is a very interesting area which I am just starting to get to grips with. When you are exploring the Wider Physical you come across all manner of tubular structures, astral gateways and all manner of weird and wonderful entrance structures. I now believe that at least some of these may lead to other parallel physical universes. There is not just one universe you see. While ours is vast enough, it would appear that we created many other parallel physical universes as well. Some are very similar and others are wildly different.

3. This is one I would not have expected, but it is the same as Monroe. Since the Source can imagine any Idea or possibility, that means every alternate or imagined reality can and does exist somewhere in some part of the cosmos. Every alternate reality is unfolding and happening simultaneously, infinitely.

Reincarnation is a confusing issue. I used to subscribe to the notion that we all lived sequential human lives, one after the other, as did Monroe. You will find that the standard concept of reincarnation runs through his work. However I have now come to the conclusion that this is not quite right. It is fair to say, from a Focus 4 perspective, that we all certainly do experience many, many human lives. The difference is, we don't experience them sequentially, we experience them all simultaneously.

4. A very hard one to fathom. Not easy for the human mind for sure.

4) Frank on retrievals

I have talked about 'retrieval work' many times in the past. This is when people in F3 decide to dedicate time to helping those who are stuck in emotional loops and belief constructs lower down the F3 tree. These people are usually referred to as 'helpers'. There are also those who are currently physically engaged, yet have decided to do their bit to help those on the lower branches of F3.

5. Sounds like the work Jeff dedicates much of his time to. Fits notions that exist in culture of "gods" who descend to earth or "guardian angels."

2) Frank's discoveries concerning guides

I do subscribe to the concept of 'guides' in the loose sense of the word, although I tend to prefer the term 'helpers' as the former does carry a lot of mystical baggage which I tend to dislike. I did go through a phase where I thought all this guide stuff was nonsense. But my curiosity got the better of me and I thought well, let's give it a go. So I mentally dumped all my thoughts of it being just some kind of mystical nonsense and began projecting with an entirely open mind on the matter.

I suspected that someone had been following me around on my astral journeys for a while but I could never nail anything down. Matters came to a head (as my guide knew they would) and one morning I just said something like, "Look, I know you've been following me around for a while now. So let's cut all this nonsense and just make yourself known." Which he did (as, again, he knew he eventually would).

6. Some interesting material here. In culture there is the idea of the "conscience" one listens to. A little bit more mystical versions of this have Socrates listening to his "Inner Guide" and the Catholic mystics who also attempt to listen to similar Voices. The Inner Director may be the activity of actual helpers - either in passing or consistently. All one must do is cultivate the appropriate level of discernment/discrimination and then open oneself up humbly to being able to receive the help/intuitions. This also gives new meaning to the idea of "muses" and similar inspirational sources for artists which exist in culture.

[Naman]

I consider myself fairly analytical and i have probed into wake back to bed method and i cud even do it furst attempt to sleep.  I had realized what makes it work what doesnt, how people spend full night,  night after night like jeffery in oobe..  I can share my experience and learning even what abt how important it is for enlightenment.   If u wud like me to cut short ur exploring lol u give me go ahead.  Ill try my best to explain.

[Alexander]

I consider myself fairly analytical and i have probed into wake back to bed method and i cud even do it furst attempt to sleep.  I had realized what makes it work what doesnt, how people spend full night,  night after night like jeffery in oobe..  I can share my experience and learning even what abt how important it is for enlightenment.   If u wud like me to cut short ur exploring lol u give me go ahead.  Ill try my best to explain.

Hi Naman,
Absolutely! I have been foundering trying to find the OOBE for years. My meditation does not seem to induce OOBEs. Any ideas would be great.

[Naman]

okay so here are my findings. im uncertain about getting oobe through meditation alone. Cause i havent yet reached that state, however ill make a point about it as well. People who are solely trying to pull out oobe using sleep alone will have hard time doing it, if done it will be difficult to repeat. I have never been a
follower of buddhist path i actually joined this forum cause i like ways of Jeffery  and how he also connects samadhi with jhanas. I will try to explain in terms of energy and chakras which is related to what i have been followings all these years. I will let you know that my main aim was to attain self knowledge (enlightenment if u wud call it). So how much energy or awareness u gather around your 6th chakra i.e. third eye, decides if u will be able to project or not. More we meditate more we get used to focus our entire energy or consciousness at third eye which otherwise is spread throughout the body. Once  we go to sleep, energy falls below third eye thats why everything becomes groggy and eyes close, when we are dreaming awareness is totally concentrated in throat area, of course much the awareness is in unconscious domain. Now to pull oobe in total awareness through meditation is something i believe takes time and practice and serious efforts need to be put in by retracting from worldly life intially atleast. Now people find it easy to project through sleep cause the awareness is already detached from the body and focused in one of the chakra, dream itself can be called oobe, only we need to drag our awareness to third eye to feel more in control and more we pull our consciousness up more lucid it feels.
Now people who are doing it thru sleep alone without meditation its difficult. I however learnt to combine it with meditation which i think many people wud have learnt to maybe they dont describe it that way.
So what i was doing it, it rather first two times happend accidently,

I started meditating around 1hr before sleep , i wud directly goto bed (if you goto bed without meditation of a minimum amount of time which varies from person to person based on ur spiritual progress, you WILL FEEL RESTLESS) and fall asleep without moving a muscle.. I first day had some super lucid dream and woke up in sleep paralysis. These things have happend to me numerous times so i didn make much of it, thinking that i cant repeat the experience anyways.
But similar episode happend next night,, as the days passed for the whole week i had something or the other experience, very lucid. Slowly by the end of 10 days the duration i used to  meditate reduced to 10 mins cause i cud keep very still and fall asleep with just 10 mins of meditation by then. But nothing happend since then. with a gap of 2,3 days thinking that my meditation time has reduced per day so ill meditate first thing in the morning, so i wud get up in bed and start meditating. I wud do it for 45mins or so but iwud feel so sleepy so ill lay down and without me knwing i went to sleep very still,,, and suddenly i openned my eyes and it felt diff,, i saw color and i cudnt move my body,,, i knew what it was.... after half a min or so of looking around thru extraordinary vision, i woke up in physical. then since then i had similar experiences for around 2 months straight.. every day. i wont bother u with details, but slowly even my morning meditation reduced in duration and experiences stopped happening,,,, i didn bother cause i felt i was not getting any better control in these experiences anyways and i cud barely make across the room in my astral body. I tried diff methods,,, focusing on third eye and falling asleep didn seem to work though,, what worked was relaxing my body and generating a pleasen numbness like feeling all over the body, which i get till today when i  meditate, i believe its our consciousness detaching from body so we dont feel out body as rigid as we do while going about in the world,, there were diff nuances i worked and recorded in my diary with all the expreinces i had.

So  ill most importantly conclude the trick: u will pull oobe or not that depends on the proper proportion of sleep and meditation.. if ur totally advanced u dont need sleep at all. If u arent u need some amount of sleep as well, more u meditate less u need portion of sleep, lesser will be the unconscious u feel in oobe. But if u do less meditation and goto sleep u will become aware in ur sleep and pull oobe.
Like if u wanna do oobe when u first goto sleep, since ur body mind needs 7-8 hrs of sleep u need to do more meditaiton maybe 50 mins to 1 hr before sleep, and goto bed thenu will have the experience for sure.
and if u wake up lets say after 4hrs of sleep u will need maybe 30 to 40mins of meditation and go back to bed without moving a muscle,, u shall get the experience
and if u wake up 1hr before regular time, i.e 1hr less sleep then u need just 20 mins of meditation... there are nuances on how u will meditate and how shall u fall asleep after meditation,,, what u shud be doing while falling asleep.. I can tell u more if ur interested.
this is basically wake back to bed method, but people dont realize importance of meditation, otherwise it will become very easy for every one i think very very few people knw the trick. Well its not a trick its a KEY.

[Alexander]

Hi Naman,

Thank you for the very interesting thoughts. I also read a few of your posts from a few years ago and found you were discussing many unique ideas.

1. In one post you asked about the importance of bodily motionless (which I mentioned earlier), and yes this seems to be a key.

2. You discuss the length of sittings and how much is required and this is one I am still trying to discern. For example, Robert Monroe and Benjamin (one of the OOB writers) both seem to have their experiences with no meditation experience. There are also some other OOB writers I have read who say they simply go to bed with the intent to have an OOBE, and they have it with 50% reliability. What differentiates them from others - what "training" they have gone through - is something to figure out.

3. Building off #2, this chakra theory might be the right idea. Yes, perhaps.

4. You also asked about an exact issue I had - about meditating and not feeling a sense of "crispness." I used to think that "crispness" was essential. I think what finally broke me out of this was learning about the OOBEs experienced by people I would think were less spiritually mature than me, which I did not understand. So, I realized losing crispness is just par for the course - crispness was not required for "progress."

5. You also asked a question once along the lines of "OK I am meditating, what now?" Haha I definitely share this idea. I think I have still been trying to work out how it "works" exactly. If one could know how it "works" one could just fulfill whatever was required for progress. For example, the questions arise: 1. Is meditation just a cognitive exercise? 2. How connected is meditation progress to personal development? 3. Does bodily motionlessness facilitate some kind of special change? 4. Does sitting produce some kind of abstract "merit"? And so on...

6. I also find your idea on "meditation alone" very interesting. I will keep this in mind: that there is some kind of relationship between meditation and sleep.

7. You discussed at one point the importance of equanimity before going OOB. If I were to look at some of my experiences over the past years (discussed in this thread) from a teleological (what purpose?) perspective, they could be seen as "training" in selflessness and equanimity. This would then make sense for the sudden inner "push" recently for me to now pursue the OOBE.

What were your thoughts on the relationship between the OOBE and enlightenment?

In the meantime I will keep experimenting.

[Naman]

Thank you for the genuine interest.

1. Yes being motionless during meditation or wake back to bed method,,  is really important. However its one side of coin,  striking a balance of sleep and meditation as u try oobe thru sleep is another really important thing neglecting this means no experience...  Motionless state can spontaneously happen as we meditate and goto sleep aftwrwards.


2. It seems to be related to efforts of lifetime.  Earlier i used to believe it has something to do with the duration of single sitting,  its loosely related but more important is the gradual progress which we achieve over length of time.  Can be expedited by more and more meditation. But at a given instance meditational experience will be dependent on overall progress..  How even experts of oobe attain that state in shorter time as years pass by is a proof.
3. One more thing i want to add for a spritiual seeker time is also important,,  as we age  naturally also we shud  become more spiritual.. Mamy people i know start having spontaneous oobe as they reach 40 .. It depends from person  to person.

4. We cant judge our progress only a master can,  however like we discussed oobe can be achieved thru sleep,  which is so low in terms of crispness,,  but actual spiritual progress is better with crispness..  And trust me mastery over oobe is not a parameter for spirituall progress..  We know it as one of siddhis..  A immaterial accomplish,  compared to spiritual goals this is still material.
After all after death everybody is in permanent oobe,  this isnt something very spiritual. Its rather occult in nature. Other siddhis include being able to drop body at will,  change bodies,  make physical boddy bigger or smaller,  being able to transport to other space etc etc.

5. I have diff theories,  one is theory of karma,,  when u r acting in world ur dissipating karma and generating even more,  when ur meditating ur gathering non also burning reserve karma.  Majority people cant imagine sitting idle without moving without emgaging in thinking and enjoying it. Cause they have heavy load of karma.  U can also explain it in terms of energy.  Meditation brings control over prana,  which drives mind which otherwise is always restless..  Stilling body calm down prana.  Breath slows. Breath indirectly related to prana,  mind slows down..  Looses the patterns and unconscious habits.  Becomes brighter sharper... Sitting motionless takes consciouness beyond body,  it helps in gathering experience beyond body,  thus increaing knowledge leading to liberation.  I have found that no other tool is there as efficient as meditation in controlling impulsive behaviour.  However if its mixed with pranayama benefits are immense..  You get great siddhis..  I cud do things sitting in my room juat thinking abt it haha people will come to me if i wish,  works get done etc etc.

[Naman]

6. What i have known is,  meditation or devotion or karma yoga there are many paths, but any path without self knowledge or true knowledge is incomplete.  We can discuss more abt it.  My main path is gyan yoga.  Or jnan yoga.

7. For me oobe has a definite purpose even though i knew long back something like this existed..  But i never tried to do it..  Cause for me it was a distraction from path of enlightenment..  It need not be..  It is a tool also.  Its a path also for many..  I was wrong. But me personally i used it to rest in my own final nature rather than exploring other realms.. It gives the taste of final liberation without dying to achiving it forever.

Watch this if you get time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjh2UVqFzQU