Author Topic: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)  (Read 4046 times)

Jhanon

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"High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« on: November 30, 2014, 02:26:02 AM »
In my years of being committed to the mystic life, there's been a significant amount of time where I slept on the floor. It is during these times that I experienced the greatest intensity of mystical phenomena and growth.

I am certain I've read the Buddha advising mystics against the use of bedding such as is common in Western society. I've not retrieved the exact quote, but am looking for it again in the Middle-Length Discourses.

I was recently gifted with a rather large and luxurious bed. I was rather reluctant at first, but in the end I began using it. Should it be considered a coincidence that I've seen a significant increase in laziness? I don't think so. But I want to hear from everyone else. In the meantime
I am standing this bed against the wall and choosing the floor.

What kind of bedding do you normally use? What have been your observations with sleeping on the floor, or something with minimal padding?

Zack

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2014, 04:15:38 AM »
Sleeping has been a big issue in my life. In the past few years I've gotten better at getting restful sleep, but it is still very hard for me to stay asleep, and even if I don't have much trouble falling asleep anymore, I don't usually stay asleep and wake up pretty early. This is probably partly due to never having found any surface I can sleep well on. The only thing I can really get good sleep on is a couch and I'll take one of those over a bed any day. The floor doesn't work for me though; I have a lot of residual pain and soreness from health and body issues, and when I try a hard surface like that I'll sleep an hour, if that much. This has made camping kind of a pain unless I have a nice sleeping pad.

I don't know how this correlates to mystical growth, but I do know the typical mattress ain't for me. I'd like to try a simple Japanese-style futon mat but haven't been able to afford one.

Michel

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2014, 01:29:59 PM »
I am certain I've read the Buddha advising mystics against the use of bedding such as is common in Western society. I've not retrieved the exact quote, but am looking for it again in the Middle-Length Discourses.

It's one of the precepts for monks and is one of the observances to be practiced on Uposatha by the laity. I'm not sure if this what you're exactly looking for, but I found this in the Anguttara Nikaya:

Quote from: Anguttara Nikaya

V. Uposatha - AN 5:41

(1) In Brief
 Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s Park. There the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus: “Bhikkhus!”
    “Venerable sir!” those bhikkhus replied. The Blessed One said this:
     “Bhikkhus, observed complete in eight factors, the uposatha is of great fruit and benefit, extraordinarily brilliant and pervasive. And how is the uposatha observed complete in eight factors, so that it is of great fruit and benefit, extraordinarily brilliant and pervasive? [249]
     (1) “Here, bhikkhus, a noble disciple reflects thus: ‘As long as they live the arahants abandon and abstain from the destruction of life; with the rod and weapon laid aside, conscientious and kindly, they dwell compassionate toward all living beings. Today, for this night and day, I too shall abandon and abstain from the destruction of life; with the rod and weapon laid aside, conscientious and kindly, I too shall dwell compassionate toward all living beings. I shall imitate the arahants in this respect and the uposatha will be observed by me.’ This is the first factor it possesses.
     (2) “‘As long as they live the arahants abandon and abstain from taking what is not given; they take only what is given, expect only what is given, and dwell with honest hearts devoid of theft. Today, for this night and day, I too shall abandon and abstain from taking what is not given; I shall accept only what is given, expect only what is given, and dwell with an honest heart devoid of theft. I shall imitate the arahants in this respect and the uposatha will be observed by me.’ This is the second factor it possesses.
     (3) “‘As long as they live the arahants abandon sexual activity and observe celibacy, living apart, abstaining from sexual intercourse, the common person’s practice. Today, for this night and day, I too shall abandon sexual activity and observe celibacy, living apart, abstaining from sexual intercourse, the common person’s practice. I shall imitate the arahants in this respect and the uposatha will be observed by me.’ This is the third factor it possesses.
     (4) “‘As long as they live the arahants abandon and abstain from false speech; they speak truth, adhere to truth; they are trustworthy and reliable, no deceivers of the world. Today, for this night and day, I too shall abandon and abstain from false speech; [250] I shall speak truth, adhere to truth; I shall be trustworthy and reliable, no deceiver of the world. I shall imitate the arahants in this respect and the uposatha will be observed by me.’ This is the fourth factor it possesses.
     (5) “‘As long as they live the arahants abandon and abstain from liquor, wine, and intoxicants, the basis for heedlessness. Today, for this night and day, I too shall abandon and abstain from liquor, wine, and intoxicants, the basis for heedlessness. I shall imitate the arahants in this respect and the uposatha will be observed by me.’ This is the fifth factor it possesses.
     (6) “‘As long as they live the arahants eat once a day, abstaining from eating at night and from food outside the proper time. Today, for this night and day, I too shall eat once a day, abstaining from eating at night and from food outside the proper time. I shall imitate the arahants in this respect and the uposatha will be observed by me.’ This is the sixth factor it possesses.
     (7) “‘As long as they live the arahants abstain from dancing, singing, instrumental music, and unsuitable shows, and from adorning and beautifying themselves by wearing garlands and applying scents and unguents. Today, for this night and day, I too shall abstain from dancing, singing, instrumental music, and unsuitable shows, and from adorning and beautifying myself by wearing garlands and applying scents and unguents. I shall imitate the arahants in this respect and the uposatha will be observed by me.’ This is the seventh factor it possesses.
     (8.) “‘As long as they live the arahants abandon and abstain from the use of high and luxurious beds; they lie down on a low resting place, either a small bed or a straw mat. Today, for this night and day, I too shall abandon and abstain from the use of high and luxurious beds; I shall lie down on a low resting place, either a small bed or a straw mat. I shall imitate the arahants in this respect [251] and the uposatha will be observed by me.’ This is the eighth factor it possesses.
     “It is in this way, bhikkhus, that the uposatha is observed complete in eight factors, so that it is of great fruit and benefit, extraordinarily brilliant and pervasive.”

There is no way that this old carcase, a pile of rickety old bones, is going to sleep on a mat on the floor. It would be too painful. A good night's sleep is absolutely essential for the practice. My bed is nothing special. It is simply comfortable. I get up the same time every morning regardless of how pleasant lying in bed may feel.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 03:33:16 PM by Michel »

Jhanananda

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2014, 04:52:16 PM »
At the beginning of my contemplative life I left the western style bed and slept every night upon a mat.  I have slept thus for most of the proceeding 4 decades.  I still sleep on a platform, and not a western style bed.

I found, once I left the western style bed, I began to experience lucid dreaming, and my contemplative life took off with the attainment of abundant superior fruit (maha-phala).

I find the western style bed is simply not comfortable for me.  However, being old, and decrepitude taking over, like Michel, I too find I can no longer rest well upon the simple mat I used to rest upon at night. 

I never found any of the Japanese style sleeping pads or meditation cushions useful, because they are generally made of cotton, and stuffed with cotton.  I find cotton traps heat and moisture, and compacts to become hard, and thus making the depth needed for deep meditation, or lucid dreaming, impossible, and very uncomfortable.

So, I sleep upon a sheet of 3/4" plywood platform that I recycled from a deck repair that I did for the last zendo that I served.  Upon that sheet of 3/4" plywood I have laid all of the wool blankets that I have accumulated over the years.  During the summer I might just sleep under a single cotton sheet on top of all of the wool blankets.  As the cold of winter comes I move down in the layers of wool blankets to keep warm.  The bottom layer is a wool prayer rug, which, on the coldest nights, might be all the comfort I have between myself and the sheet of 3/4" plywood platform.

Otherwise I too attempt to observe the 8 precepts of the Uposatha everyday of my life, because I find them conducive to the attainment of abundant superior fruit (maha-phala).
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Michel

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2014, 05:50:56 PM »
Otherwise I too attempt to observe the 8 precepts of the Uposatha everyday of my life, because I find them conducive to the attainment of abundant superior fruit (maha-phala).
Really. Do you fast after noon for the whole day?

Jhanananda

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2014, 06:18:30 PM »
Otherwise I too attempt to observe the 8 precepts of the Uposatha everyday of my life, because I find them conducive to the attainment of abundant superior fruit (maha-phala).
Really. Do you fast after noon for the whole day?
No, being diabetic, I only eat when I am hungry, and I find hunger arises about 2 times per day.  In the mornings I make a meal in a 1 quart pot.  I tend to eat half of it around 9AM, and the other half around 3PM.  Otherwise, I believe it is best to eat only when one is hungry.  Only eat what satisfies the hunger, and meets the nutritional needs of the body, and to not eat after sunset.  I have attempted to follow this diet plan for the preceding 4 decades.

About 6 years ago I had to change my diet plan due to lack of funding.  This meant most of my meals were taken at free kitchens.  When one eats at a free kitchens, one has to eat when the food is being served, not when one is hungry.  This might explain the recent development of diabetes.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 06:21:08 PM by Jhanananda »
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Michel

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2014, 09:10:52 PM »
Would you advocate fasting after noon for those who are non-diabetic? I try to eat so that it doesn't interfere with my meditations. No heavy meals that are hard on the digestion, etc.

Jhanananda

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2014, 11:33:53 AM »
Like you, I eat so that it doesn't interfere with my meditations.  I neither want a bloated belly, nor a grumbling one, when I am meditating.
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Jhanon

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 02:10:59 AM »
Like you, I eat so that it doesn't interfere with my meditations.  I neither want a bloated belly, nor a grumbling one, when I am meditating.

Likewise. It may have been one of the most important changes that returned me to optimum weight. Although the cold months can make it difficult.

Jhanon

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2014, 02:17:14 AM »
Sleeping has been a big issue in my life. In the past few years I've gotten better at getting restful sleep, but it is still very hard for me to stay asleep, and even if I don't have much trouble falling asleep anymore, I don't usually stay asleep and wake up pretty early. This is probably partly due to never having found any surface I can sleep well on. The only thing I can really get good sleep on is a couch and I'll take one of those over a bed any day. The floor doesn't work for me though; I have a lot of residual pain and soreness from health and body issues, and when I try a hard surface like that I'll sleep an hour, if that much. This has made camping kind of a pain unless I have a nice sleeping pad.

I don't know how this correlates to mystical growth, but I do know the typical mattress ain't for me. I'd like to try a simple Japanese-style futon mat but haven't been able to afford one.

A thin and firm mat would be ideal for me. And, yeah--usually the first month of laying on the floor is painful and difficult to sleep. However, in addition to the benefits already mentioned, laying on the floor has also revealed many underlying conditions and imbalances that I would not have noticed otherwise. For example, I discovered I have a pinched nerve, which took some time to resolve. Also, my dreams/OOBE have been most lucid when sleeping on a low and firm mat or the floor. Additionally, I rarely sleep more than 5 hours on the floor. For me, this is ideal. If I make it to 50 years old or more, I expect I'll run into many more complications with sleeping on the floor.

Zack

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2014, 12:43:52 PM »
That makes sense - I've never stuck it out long enough to see past the difficulty. I've gotten so little sleep when I've tried it that I really couldn't function well, though. I think I have just never been very comfortable in my body. I also haven't tried it in recent times, being more able to subdue the mind and thinking these days, so it's all something to tinker with till something seems to work.

Jhanananda

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Re: "High and Luxurious Beds" (does it matter?)
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2014, 12:57:51 PM »
The first 5 years of my contemplative life I practiced hatha yoga several hours a day.  The reason why I did is because I found my body had some emotional armoring, and had some defects due to various habits, like poor posture.  All of that can be fixed with a rigorous hatha yoga practice.
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