Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => General Discussion => : Alexander October 06, 2015, 06:58:25 PM
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After some delay I've decided to support the vile socialist Bernie Sanders as the Democratic presidential candidate: https://berniesanders.com/
It is unlikely he will win, but I've given him a small donation, and I'll vote for him in the primary, which I think Massachusetts has declared as March 1st. Given how the human realm works, one of the buffoonish other candidates will win, but I'm encouraged at least someone like him, who is not completely out of his mind, is attempting to run for president. That at least shows me that the principles that are supposed to be behind America are not entirely dead.
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As much as I've tried to stray away from political opinion, I have to agree with you. If only we lived in a world where an idealist like this could become popular opinion. He is right though, from a cultural standpoint. I watched about an hour worth of interview and commentary, and was quite moved by his enthusiasm while addressing the president at a congressional hearing. He said that we are at war. Big money vs everyone else. He's right. But history shows this type of idealism cannot prevail. I've never voted, but if I were to, i think id vote for him.
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While I am convinced that all civilizations were utterly and completely corrupt, as is this one; and I am also convinced that no one becomes president without being bought; nonetheless, Bernie Sanders seems like a good choice, and I plan to vote for him, when it comes time to do so.
I happen to be a socialist, Alexander, because socialism is government by the people for the people; whereas, the two party system of the USA has always been about government by the elite few, for the elite few, at the expense of the many.
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Bernie Sanders on the Papal visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNmub3YKH54
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Call me a pessimist, but those same families funding the campaign, are the same that are in bed with the congressional comity. It would take a revolution to change it. I am surprised, or un-surprised, that the Pope is making such bold statements, without action necessary to see them to fruition. Oddly enough, it brings me to my thoughts as of late. That evil must exist for there to be good. I won't entertain this much, as its been rather dark.
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True, Cal, but the Pope's comments are unprecedented compared to former ones; he is actually acting like the representative of Christ on earth, which explains how he has become so popular. And, any social movement begins with ideas spreading, and he is at least telling it like it is, while his predecessors couldn't even do that.
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Perhaps he can make a change. I hope he does.
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I too have become a pessimist; however, the quotes of this current pope suggests that he truly speaks for the poor and the homeless; and by Bernie Sanders quoting, and expanding upon, these statements of the pope that support the issues of the poor and the homeless, strongly suggests that Bernie Sanders also speaks for and supports the poor and the homeless.
Here is another video on his subject with Senator Sanders and Michael Moore (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5rcnAWaC64)
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CNN takes down a poll that shows Bernie won the debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkln6bEwQjs
The speaker here mentions the Overton window, which I had never heard about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
It is clear the powers that be consider "socialism" outside the window of the acceptable here
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It is clear the powers that be consider "socialism" outside the window of the acceptable here
You make interesting points, Alexander. I believe the only reason why socialism falls outside of the Overton window is because there has been just so much negative rhetoric related to it for decades by the .1% who do not want to pay their fair share of taxes.
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http://www.newsweek.com/president-bernie-dont-hold-your-breath-385995
Some interesting quotes
What does it mean for the country when politicians are raising so much money from wealthy supporters rather than the grassroots?
It’s a bad trend for the country.
How did the party establishment react when the Dean campaign raised so much money from small-dollar donors online in 2004?
We scared the daylights out of the establishment, but that was about all we were able to do. Both party establishments are pretty good at making sure that a candidate who isn’t of the establishment doesn’t make it.
What about Barack Obama?
You could argue that Obama beat the establishment in 2008, or was able to co-opt enough of them after he got enough small-dollar donations online. But—if you count him—he’s the rare exception.
In 2008, it’s 3 million people giving Barack Obama half a billion dollars and he wins. But after that, the Republicans did not run out and say, “Wow, we’ve got to create a network of 3 million people to compete with that $500 million machine.” Instead, they make the super PAC thing happen.
And in 2012, the Democrats cave and say, “Yeah, us too,” to super PACs. Barack Obama, who had been against super PACs and saying you can do this with people—he finally breaks down and says, "I was wrong," that to fight super PACs, you need to give to super PACs.
What do you think would happen if Bernie Sanders beats Hillary Clinton in Iowa?
The entire Democratic establishment would come out of the woodwork to stop Bernie Sanders from being the nominee. The establishment fervently believes that a socialist cannot be president of the United States.
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Media Edits Out Key Bernie Sanders Rant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbO-Emwj2J4
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Thanks, Sam, I am watching it now.
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Did Media Declaring Hillary Won Debate Influence Polls?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STeqtJLakQQ
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Hes authentic, I like him. I may actually vote this year.
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Republicans control a majority of states in the US
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll1QlkBorkA
This makes me concerned about worsening inequality moving forward; it's already bad but if it's ever going to get better, it will get worse first. And, it's the stupid voters' fault for voting for the right wing, who will keep giving tax cuts to the wealthiest.
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I honestly believe it more corruption and bribery than actual honest to good voters.
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Two more weeks till the New Hampshire/Iowa primaries and Bernie Sanders keeps rising in national polls
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary
Comparing the contributions of Sanders and Clinton is interesting
http://i.imgur.com/j6soixX.png
http://i.imgur.com/4iS9Ln3.jpg
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I have little hope for any progress in this nation, but I plan to vote for Bernie if that means anything to anyone.
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I agree, Jhanananda, the political system is utterly corrupt; we exist in a nation of legalized bribery, through campaign contributions and lobbying; every day we reap the results of this corrupt system, with our contemptible healthcare system, wealth inequality, lack of quality jobs, outsourced jobs, et al; however, it at least shows that many Americans are aware of the problem, and unhappy with it, that they decide to support Bernie Sanders, even if the man by himself cannot change the corrupt system.
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I do hope he will win the election. He is the underdog for sure and a small miracle would be needed for him to win. He has my vote.
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Here, here to both of you.
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Great article explaining the difference between "democratic socialism"and "social democracy" and where Sanders fits in:
Why America’s Next President Will Not Be a Socialist: http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/15/why-americas-next-president-will-not-be-a-socialist/print/
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Great article Michel, thanks for sharing it!
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Thanks, Michel, I found the article Why America’s Next President Will Not Be a Socialist (http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/15/why-americas-next-president-will-not-be-a-socialist/print/): had an excellent description of a social democrat verses a democratic socialist.
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You are welcome both of you. I'm glad that you enjoyed the article.
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All, Although I have sort of vowed not to vote in any more elections, there is still a lot of time before the 2016 election. I voted for years in elections beginning with the 1964 and with the exception of McGovern and Barry Commoner it was always for the lesser of 2 evils. Democracy, at least according to Winston Churchill has its faults but is the best system until something better comes along. I wonder what Winston would say about democracy currently! Obama and the drone question as well as his continued support for globalization led me to vowing not to vote any more - I voted for him twice. I agree with Jeffrey socialism is the only way to go, but I do not think there is any chance in the USA. Our democracy has been bought forever. Stu
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Ralph Nader is more optimistic about the state of America than most people I've read.
In a recent interview he said:
"I would assess that my only support were the American people, and they took all these wins we got for granted and sat by while corporations beefed up their lobbyists, beefed up their campaign money, beefed up their media, and took over Washington. Washington is corporate occupied territory. It didn't have to be. My main message to people is, don't get discouraged because American history shows one percent or less active people in Congressional districts representing you; majority opinion can turn around the Congress and defeat these corporations again and again and again. And there's no time to go into all the details, but we did it; our predecessors have done it throughout American history. But it does take two and a half million people who are as serious about their civic duties as birdwatchers are [laughs] watching and counting the number of different birds that they collect. And if they want to get my column free, just go to Nader.org and they'll get a weekly column free; seven minutes of agitation, if you're a moderate reader, every week, that often tells you what can be done. And so we can overcome this demoralization of so many good people in this country."
Full interview here (includes interesting comments about Bernie Sanders, as well):
Ralph Nader, the Voice Against Corporate Power: http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/print/audio_robert_scheer_interviews_ralph_nader_consumer_advocate_20160122
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After reading the article Why America’s Next President Will Not Be a Socialist (http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/15/why-americas-next-president-will-not-be-a-socialist/print/) I realized that I had to redefine myself as a social democrat verses a democratic socialist.
On the other hand, as an anthropologist, I am convinced that the human ecological niche is hunter-gatherer, not techno-industrial. I am certain people will simply be happier living in small bands on the landscape fishing, hunting and gathering.
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Chris Hedges' latest article is a scathing attack on Bernie Sanders and American politics.
In the opening paragraph, he writes: "Bernie Sanders, who has attracted numerous young, white, college-educated supporters in his bid for the presidency, says he is creating a movement and promises a political revolution. This rhetoric is an updated version of the “change” promised by the 2008 campaign of Barack Obama and by Jesse Jackson’s earlier National Rainbow Coalition. Such Democratic electoral campaigns, at best, raise political consciousness. But they do not become movements or engender revolutions. They exist as long as election campaigns endure and then they vanish. Sanders’ campaign will be no different."
Full article:
Bernie Sanders’ Phantom Movement: http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/bernie_sanders_phantom_movement_20160214
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As you know I admire Chris Hedges very much, but I don't agree with a lot of what he says here. I find this article contradictory. True, if Bernie Sanders loses, the movement will go with him; but I don't understand the criticism - should we not support the movement while it exists? I just do not follow Christ Hedges' reasoning there.
Yes, the obstacles facing a socialist president are immense, particularly the superdelegates who will support corporate power; but again, there is a lot of time to go, and there is no alternate to a Sanders president if we want a real chance to reform the corrupt system.
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As you know I admire Chris Hedges very much, but I don't agree with a lot of what he says here. I find this article contradictory. True, if Bernie Sanders loses, the movement will go with him; but I don't understand the criticism - should we not support the movement while it exists? I just do not follow Christ Hedges' reasoning there.
Well, I'd say Hedges thinks Sanders is not serious about what he says and therefore the whole movement is a sham.
Hedges is very pessimistic about the state of America. I think that any attempt to over through the establishment, as he proposes, would be brutishly dealt with and only God knows where that would lead. But it maybe it is the only hope left, as he believes.
Yes, the obstacles facing a socialist president are immense, particularly the superdelegates who will support corporate power; but again, there is a lot of time to go, and there is no alternate to a Sanders president if we want a real chance to reform the corrupt system.
I think Hedges is arguing that the whole of American politics is just a show leading nowhere. The system simply does not work for most of the people. I agree with Hedges that America is on the verge of collapse. It's going to get ugly.