Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Contemplative Blogs => : panegalli December 30, 2015, 01:14:37 AM
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Hello, my name is João, I'm a 23 year old brazilian and I have been practicing meditation daily (though some days I get lazy) for a little over a year now, somedays I do 2 hours some days 1 hour..
I guess I always had some kind of inclination towards meditation, I remember my father telling me a story that he made up - as he always did every night when I was a child - while I was on my bed at night, about a homeless man that travelled around the world and meditated. When he said that the man meditated I thought "wow, that's cool". My mom also told me that I used to listen to self-hypnosis discs that they bought when I was a child and stayed there with my eyes closed listening to it for about an hour. But it seems that my interest in spirituality ended at my teens, I was very anxious,lonely and sort of scared all the time, it seems that meditation would have been a good thing for me, but since I was in a very atheistic/materialistic phase of my life, it would be very unlikely for me to engage in any sort of spiritual practice.
I regained my interest in spirituality around 2011, when I was 19 years old.Not coincidentally in the end of that year I had my first psychotic episode, which lasted for about a month or two, it was quite a dramatic and scary experience.
In the middle of 2013 I started to watch and read about buddhism and meditation and tried meditating a few times, it wasn't so good except one time when I was doing loving-kindness meditation and had a sort of love orgasm on my chest. That's when I was convinced that there was something really extraordinary about meditation, but strangelly enought it didn't make me engage in a daily practice, except for using the mental noting technique informally throught the day.
In the beginning of 2014 I went to a place that had cerimonies with the famous hallucinogenic brew called "Ayahuasca", since the ritual use of Ayahuasca is legal here in Brazil I went there and drank it without many difficulties. I drank it a total of 4 times, it was quite a dramatic experience that really opened my mind and showed me, like the love orgasm on the chest did, that the way "normal" people experience reality is not the only way possible. On the week that followed the 4th time I drank the brew I was on a sort of altered state 24/7 that seems very close to the description that I had of jhanas, it was probably the 1st or 2nd. But, unexpectedly, I had a second psychotic episode when the altered state ceased. It was the most terrifying hellish experience I’ve ever had, and I don't wish it even to the worst person that ever existed. After that I started meditating daily, but it was kind of difficult, specially because I would have some version of that hellish experience every week to some degree, it just stopped happening in the middle of this year.
Meditation seemed like the right way to go, because altough Ayahuasca opened my mind for the possibilities, it didn’t change my mind in a profound way, I was back to my misery after the effect ended.
So, after a year of meditation I can relate to some of the experiences Jhananda and some people here describe, such as feeling the Aura, which I can feel around my head and feet, and I also can pulsate it at a certain frequency at will. I get a sort of pleasent elation sometimes, but not consistently, I don’t know if I feel safe to call it the 1st jhana. I can’t still my mind yet so I’m definatelly not getting to the 2nd jhana. Sometimes I feel insecure that I will never be able to get to these states, but I try to let go of worry. I also had one week this year in July where I could get to a VERY nice state every day, but it faded away.
To sum it up,meditation has made my life better for sure, I’m way less angry and way more happy. It is hard some days and easier at others, but in general things are getting better.
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Welcome to the forum, panegalli.
Ayahuasca and other hallucinogenics are said to be like looking into a window of the house that is the religious experience. I have found too often in case histories and other materials that a "psychotic episode" is only a mis-diagnoses to profound religious experience. Perhaps this is the case with you as well.
I also have had many hellish experiences, and have found them to be expected as one travels down the path to liberation.
The long meditation sits are indicative of good things to come. Feel free to ask questions and browse through the case histories here, you may find some of them to be pretty close to your own experiences.
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Welcome to the forum, panegalli, and thank-you so much for posting your blog here. I expect that you will find that meditation will give you excellent coping mechanisms for dealing with any psychotic episodes, and it is possible that those episodes might very well have been misdiagnosed religious experiences.
It does sound like you have arrived at the first jhana. Now, to get to stilling your mind.
Ayahuasca and other hallucinogenics are said to be like looking into a window of the house that is the religious experience.
So true, Cal, so true. We find here we have no longer a need for drug induced psychedelic experiences, because deep meditation is just so much better.
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A little update. I've been getting pretty solid piti and sukha latelly, also a lot of overwhelming feelings of love, I'm not sure if my mind is getting still, but it seems it is a little bit. I've been trying to do at least 4 hours a day, probably 6.
Sometimes I feel such joy that I want to cry, would you guys say this is the 1st jhana or the 2nd?
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A little update. I've been getting pretty solid piti and sukha latelly, also a lot of overwhelming feelings of love, I'm not sure if my mind is getting still, but it seems it is a little bit. I've been trying to do at least 4 hours a day, probably 6.
Sometimes I feel such joy that I want to cry, would you guys say this is the 1st jhana or the 2nd?
With the arising of bliss and joy, if that is what piti and sukha mean to you, then it is reasonable to consider that your heart is opening. In this case one has to be careful not to turn it into a romantic adventure and to observe discipline at this time.
If you are not sure if your mind is becoming still, then you are not likely to have arrived at the 2nd jhana, or deeper. With deep meditation comes deep self-awareness. So, then you will know when your mind is still.
On the other hand, if you are consistently meditating skillfully 4-6 hours a day, then your mind should be stilling soon.
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There was a plane crash with the soccer team of my town here in Brazil, nearly everyone died. Including the vice-director which lived here at my building, really cool dude, it's so sad. The energy is so heavy, I can't meditate. I hope things will get better.
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I am so sorry to read of the local tragedy. Eventually calm, will return to you, when it does, do not forget to begin meditation again. Keep coming back to your meditation practice. Keep going deeper. When you have gone to the depth of the 3rd stage consistently, then you will have the equanimity that will sustain you through such tragedies in the future.
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I'm going through a really bad spiritual crisis. I'm experiencing feelings of complete and utter terror and existencial angst. It's really hard, I'm glad this community exists
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Yes, as I see it, this forum is a peer-level support group for modern day mystics. I am glad to know that we help you to traverse your spiritual crises.
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I've been feeling my throat chakra quite a bit latelly. I'm getting also some unpleasent feelings on my throat, feels like punctures, it seems to be repressed crying.
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Yes, as I awoke to my throat chakra, I found some discomfort, which required quite a bit of equanimity. So, keep meditating, and find some comfort in these strange sensations.
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I'm also starting to feel a sense of very strong confidence and authority, sometimes I feel like some high rank official of the army, it borders on megalomania, are those qualities related to the throat chakra?
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That is an interesting question, panegalli. I suppose there are a number of factors at work for the contemplative, who learns to meditate deeply:
1) It usually does not take long for one to realize that most people do not meditate at all.
2) Of those who do meditate, they do not meditate deeply.
3) Consequently, those who do meditate deeply find themselves way ahead of the herd.
However, those who meditate deeply also generally acquire a great deal of humility, so the megalomania that you speak of is generally not present for those who meditate deeply.
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Do any of you guys think that meditation could cancel the effect of psychiatric medication? I'm getting to such wonderfully blissful states that it makes me think that. I'm pretty much just taking it because my parents would freak out if I stopped, and I'm financially dependent on them
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I do not know if deep meditation experience over comes the negative effect of psychiatric medication. I would not think so. In fact, from our collective experience here, it seems like some psychiatric medication negates the deep meditation experience. Thus, I recommend people avoid psychiatric medication, while taking up a fruitful contemplative life, which many of us here know from direct experience will overcome many psychiatric conditions, including addiction.
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Good work.
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Thank-you, panegalli, for filing your report.
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I have so much anger inside of me, meditation is so difficult right now, I feel I will never overcome it, I'm thinking of giving up meditating, it's too difficult. I feel hopeless
This is one of the most difficult challenges of meditation. One must keep practicing meditation, and sitting through the arising of difficult emotions. Eventually one is washed clean of them.
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Two critical skills that must be mastered by those who wish to meditate deeply are: deep relaxation, and the stilling of the mind. How are you at these two skills?
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R u able to dedicate a fixed amount of time for sittings ? Like 2hrs or so? In my experience i found that failing to do so can being on all the old forgotten garbage tendencies
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I've been and will go through what your experiencing many more times. For me to get over myself was just to stick it out. Just sit and meditate and forget the joy and bliss or what should happen or what happened in the past. It will iron itself out over time.
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I've been and will go through what your experiencing many more times. For me to get over myself was just to stick it out. Just sit and meditate and forget the joy and bliss or what should happen or what happened in the past. It will iron itself out over time.
This was my method. I also made an effort to observe my mental content throughout the day, and made an effort to still the mind every time I observe a thought. I call it, "Finding the off switch for the mind." Once you get skilled with the mind's off-switch, then it is easy to still the mind.
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The previous wave of suffering has passed for now. I've been experiencing some pretty pleasent sensations during meditation the pasr two days. It's interesting to note that there a sense that the sensations also taste or smell like something sweet.
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Good to know that you are having success in your contemplative life. Now, just learn to value the superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala) as the highest value of anything that one can acquire in life, and spend the rest of your life saturating yourself in these and the other superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala).
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I found that deep meditation is where we shed layers of the psyche, which can often times be protective mechanisms for the ego that might have been important in childhood, but emotional maturity might require dumping them.
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This is where being slef-reflexive, as a contemplative, can pay off, in learning the causes of our suffering, and avoiding those causes.
In the Bible there are numerous to righteousness. It is my opinion that this is a reference to avoiding what causes stress, anxiety, and suffering.
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Probably going there forever may result in not being able to leave it nor being enlightened.
I do not advise you to go to hell, requires some strengh to leave that space safely.
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Some voices are telling me I have to go to hell forever and comeback to become enlighned
The descent into hell is a part of a number of religious systems. For instance, Christianity hace Jesus descending into hell after his crucifixion. I am also reminded of Virgil's Aeneide, which is a pre-Christian era Roman fiction that parallels the Iliad and the Odyssey.
Probably going there forever may result in not being able to leave it nor being enlightened.
I do not advise you to go to hell, requires some strengh to leave that space safely.
I am with you, Jhanek. One need not go looking for hell, because if one needs to experience it for spiritual growth, then a fruitful contemplative is going to experience it in an OOBE.
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Long time since my last post. I am more stable now. I have been experimenting with doing a lot of short meditation sessions instead of a few long one. I'm having more success that way
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Hi Panegalli,
Whatever obstacles you are facing know that you are with us. :) I have been experiencing aridity in my meditations for years now so know you are not alone.
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Good to hear from you, Panegalli. It is good to read that you are meditating. We may not always have the time or energy to sit for a long time. At those times it is best to sit, even if it is for a short time, because keeping the habit up can only lead to further effort, and the fruit thereof.
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Thank you all for the support
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I am going through a difficult existential crisis right now. My intuition tells me I must go through this in order to unblock my heart chakra and feel deep love for all beings
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I am going through a difficult existential crisis right now. My intuition tells me I must go through this in order to unblock my heart chakra and feel deep love for all beings
Hello, Panegalli, I am sorry to here you are experiencing crisis. Life seems to be one crisis after another. Perhaps you would feel like giving us some details, in case we can offer some advice.
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I am not surprised that you re confused. I have been writing here about how none of the people who are claiming enlightenment seem to be enlighten3ed. The whole point of this forum is "we know a tree by its fruit." So, have either of these monks written knowledgeably about any of the superior fruit of the contemplative life? Not in my experience.
So, my advice to contemplatives who are interested in meditating deeply is follow the bliss, and go as deep as you can go.