Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Samadhi => : jhananimitta August 18, 2016, 05:35:20 PM
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Can someone please explain what one does in the first Jhana? I get absorbed into contact. I feel that I have tuned into one thought.
I can’t discern if I have joy or bliss as this state is very profound. Realizing that I have no breath or the feeling of no breath.
My breathing becomes erratic and the whole thing falls apart. Although I still have that profound state. Doubt arises which then turns to panic and I stop meditating.
Should I keep on with the feeling of profound state and forget about the no breathing and let go? Or maybe this has nothing to do with the first Jhana?
I have read the first Jhana and the 5 jhana factors. So can we compartmentalize the factors? Do these factors happen in one go when contact is made?
Vitakka - applied or initiating attention
Vicára - sustained attention
Sukha - joy
Piti -bliss
Ekaggatha - one-pointedness
It would be greatly appreciated if one can explain these simple factors to someone new to the first gate.
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The answer to my question just needed some direction.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/recognizingabsorption.htm (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/recognizingabsorption.htm)
jhananimitta
For straight is the path and narrow is the gate
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Can someone please explain what one does in the first Jhana?
I define the first stage of depth in meditation, which I believe is the same as Siddhartha Gautama's first jhana, as just finding the practice of meditation enjoyable, and fulfilling in and of itself. When we find meditation thus, then we want to practice every day, and we want to meditate several times a day, and we want our meditation sessions to be longer.
I get absorbed into contact. I feel that I have tuned into one thought.
I can’t discern if I have joy or bliss as this state is very profound. Realizing that I have no breath or the feeling of no breath.
When we learn to take our pleasure and fulfillment from the practice of meditation, then we practice meditation more and for longer periods. It is here where we begin to have the experience of deep meditation. We find here that when the breath seems to cease, then the subject is most likely at the 4th stage of depth in meditation (4th jhana).
My breathing becomes erratic and the whole thing falls apart. Although I still have that profound state. Doubt arises which then turns to panic and I stop meditating.
Should I keep on with the feeling of profound state and forget about the no breathing and let go? Or maybe this has nothing to do with the first Jhana?
It sounds like you are getting attached to your meditation object, which in your case is the breath. When the breath appears to stop, then do not cling to it. Just let happen what happens, and do accept the strange things that arise be the signs of deep meditation, which are called "jhana-nimitta" in the Pali Canon.
I have read the first Jhana and the 5 jhana factors. So can we compartmentalize the factors? Do these factors happen in one go when contact is made?
Vitakka - applied or initiating attention
Vicára - sustained attention
Sukha - joy
Piti -bliss
Ekaggatha - one-pointedness
It would be greatly appreciated if one can explain these simple factors to someone new to the first gate.
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The answer to my question just needed some direction.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/recognizingabsorption.htm (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/recognizingabsorption.htm)
jhananimitta
For straight is the path and narrow is the gate
Yes, the factors are correct, but we just need to keep in mind that the 8 stages of depth in meditation (samadhi) do not start with a fantastic experience, but begin with the first discernible experience of depth, and move to greater levels of depth, which are characterized by increasingly profound states. Typically the 3d to the 4th stages are so profound that they tend to blow the mind of the subject, and sometimes people get frightened by greater depth.
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Honesty when I read your answers I freaked out. The palms where sweaty and the heart was racing. I had to walk out side under the stars as I felt I was going to explode. Every fear mongering thought attacked my psyche. How could I have slipped that far in deep meditation. I thought this was a gradual process?
I really had to try hard to compose myself. As I felt I've gone too far and too quick. I panicked and started pacing. Thinking that it would ware off. I didn't. I needed an Ally which was my younger self. The younger me had been though a lot of strange, hurtful and experimental stages. So I asked. Whats the difference between what I was then and what I'm now? The only answer was time.
The panic and trembling stop and got replaced with warmness. I felt a calmness enter my being much like when I start deep meditation but not as intense. Then my mind climbed in to have another round. But this time it hit a brick wall. The problem arise when one gets caught in the moment with an unsettled mind which leads to fear and attachment. Its easy for me to say that now I admit. But I have come across that this unpleasantness is necessary.
So now when I re-read your comments. Its very claim with focused mind.
As I stated in our first email correspondence. I have come to understand how to cultivate the door to the inner mind. This is when I took up the practice again in earnest three mouths ago. The question that got me there was I wanted to understand God. Whether God was in the sky or just thin air. There must be something. So I practice. And dropped everything I knew about pretend meditation.
You are right that when I punched longer times in meditation "enjoyable, and fulfilling in and of itself". I wanted more meditation. All I could think about was meditation. The only subject I wanted to talk about was meditation.
The first time I experienced deep meditation it took me really quick to get there. The second time took me quicker and that is the base now. Since my last post I have stopped meditating. Purely from confutation and needed some guidance. I can see that I'm clinging to the breath and should "Just let happen what happens, and do accept the strange things that arise be the signs of deep meditation". I do however need to read up more about what the actual signs are versus jhana-nimitta. For jhana-nimitta is running in the foreground.
Is there a way I can traverse the Jhanas back down to the first Jhana? As you describe I might be going into the 4th Jhana or already in the 4th Jhana? I feel I need solid foundation or become skillfull before I blow my mind...
As always I'm grateful deeply for the free time that you have spent writing to this post.
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Honesty when I read your answers I freaked out. The palms where sweaty and the heart was racing. I had to walk out side under the stars as I felt I was going to explode. Every fear mongering thought attacked my psyche. How could I have slipped that far in deep meditation. I thought this was a gradual process?
For most people the process of progressing to deeper depths in meditation is a gradual process; however, for those who have joined this forum often we find fairly profound states within the first few weeks of taking up a daily meditation practice. This rapid progress tends to confuse some people.
I really had to try hard to compose myself. As I felt I've gone too far and too quick. I panicked and started pacing. Thinking that it would ware off. I didn't. I needed an Ally which was my younger self. The younger me had been though a lot of strange, hurtful and experimental stages. So I asked. Whats the difference between what I was then and what I'm now? The only answer was time.
The panic and trembling stop and got replaced with warmness. I felt a calmness enter my being much like when I start deep meditation but not as intense. Then my mind climbed in to have another round. But this time it hit a brick wall. The problem arise when one gets caught in the moment with an unsettled mind which leads to fear and attachment. Its easy for me to say that now I admit. But I have come across that this unpleasantness is necessary.
This reminds me of the reference to 'aridity' in John of the Cross's books. We all have to realize that there are ups and downs in the contemplative life for all of us. If we meditate daily to depth, and we do it for decades, then we get used to the ups and downs, and the ups and downs become a gentle ride through hilly country, instead of a roller coaster ride.
So now when I re-read your comments. Its very claim with focused mind.
As I stated in our first email correspondence. I have come to understand how to cultivate the door to the inner mind. This is when I took up the practice again in earnest three mouths ago. The question that got me there was I wanted to understand God. Whether God was in the sky or just thin air. There must be something. So I practice. And dropped everything I knew about pretend meditation.
When we examine the references to "holy spirit" in the Bible and Gospels, and compare that to the references to samadhi in the Pali Canon and Yoga Sutras, then I find these terms are used synonymously. So, the experience of depth in meditation is one and the same with the experience of direct communion with god as described in the Bible and Gospels.
You are right that when I punched longer times in meditation "enjoyable, and fulfilling in and of itself". I wanted more meditation. All I could think about was meditation. The only subject I wanted to talk about was meditation.
The first time I experienced deep meditation it took me really quick to get there. The second time took me quicker and that is the base now. Since my last post I have stopped meditating. Purely from confutation and needed some guidance. I can see that I'm clinging to the breath and should "Just let happen what happens, and do accept the strange things that arise be the signs of deep meditation". I do however need to read up more about what the actual signs are versus jhana-nimitta. For jhana-nimitta is running in the foreground.
Is there a way I can traverse the Jhanas back down to the first Jhana? As you describe I might be going into the 4th Jhana or already in the 4th Jhana? I feel I need solid foundation or become skillfull before I blow my mind...
As always I'm grateful deeply for the free time that you have spent writing to this post.
When the experience of deep meditation gets scary, then just open your eyes and get up and go for a walk, or go about your day. It is that simple. Eventually one will become used to the terrain of deep meditation, then one can explore greater depth when one is ready.
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All things come to those who practice skillfully.
And this is what I have been doing these past weeks. I have managed to start from the beginning with the process to dial in and fine tune the experiences. Although it was hard at first as, the mind was not wanting to be still. Racing around like ponies do in the field.
When I succeed in achieving the first gate (Jhana) I was joyful and blissfully contented. I knew that the other gates where in reach. I'm currently dipping in and out of the fourth gate and I find that this one is going to take me awhile. Its very profound and when I get contact I see swirling patterns forming. Very bright colored patterns something like a kaleidoscope. I have also heard two very low tones running in parallel. Each taking turns in adjusting the audio with degrees.
These experiences have changed my life dramatically and sometimes, I have had hard times dealing with people and there ways. At some points I feel that I could just vanish and live a solitude life.
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Its very profound and when I get contact I see swirling patterns forming. Very bright colored patterns something like a kaleidoscope. I have also heard two very low tones running in parallel. Each taking turns in adjusting the audio with degrees.
These, I believe are what is referred to in the suttas as jhananimitta. I have found if I just tune my meditation to the jhananimitta, then I find they are the pathway to greater depth in meditation. It sounds like you are finding the same thing.
These experiences have changed my life dramatically and sometimes, I have had hard times dealing with people and there ways. At some points I feel that I could just vanish and live a solitude life.
Yes, I too found the more time I spend in deep meditation the more my life is transformed, and the less the things of life attract me.
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I have extended my sitting more frequently to two or three times a day (depends on circumstance). During the days I feel electric but when it comes to sitting. I feel slightly anxious half an hour before. Can't work out why?
I find the experience of bliss or body hit lasts very sort (5 mins or so) and the jhananimitta don't come or the signs shows up and disappear. That is when my meditation stops or I have to revive it from the beginning. Usually at this point its hard to maintain focus on my object. If I can't maintain I don't mess around and force myself. I just stop.
I have tried working out what has changed and hopefully it will iron itself out in the end.
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It sounds like you are making progress. Success in deep meditation just takes time, patience, and continuity.
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I did the ironing and found the issue I was having and fixed it.
I'm technical and that got in the way. I never understood how I arrived at deep meditation except that I would just fall into it. I had the technique down to the letter. But when I applied critical thinking at how I actually arrived. It all went out the window.
The feelings of anxiousness is the immutable current state moving to the mutable.
A few answers would be helpful from your own experience. I'm sure you have written about this?
Why do we get absorbed in deep meditation?
Do we have these states when we sleep but unaware that its taking place?
Why does one feel bliss?
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I did the ironing and found the issue I was having and fixed it.
I'm technical and that got in the way. I never understood how I arrived at deep meditation except that I would just fall into it. I had the technique down to the letter. But when I applied critical thinking at how I actually arrived. It all went out the window.
I arrived at deep meditation shortly after I started daily meditation practice. I reason why is because I expected that meditation practice would lead to something pleasant, and an altered state of consciousness.
It is also possible that those who arrive at deep meditation have exceptional IQs, as I do, and it seems that you do, and it seems most of the people on this forum seem to.
The feelings of anxiousness is the immutable current state moving to the mutable.
I noticed that as I meditated deeply that I would become aware of the mental state of others. I happened to find it easier to meditate deeply when in the wilderness, so I went on hikes nearly every day, as everywhere in Tucson is only about 20 minutes from a hiking trail. I also spent at least 2 weeks camping in the wilderness every year, as well as I attended at least one 10-day meditation retreat each year. So, I developed skill with deep meditation, and self-awareness.
There were times when I felt anxious. When I examined myself I could not see a reason for the anxiety and determined that I was becoming aware of others around me who are anxious. And, 13 years ago when I increased my meditation practice I headed off into the wilderness where I would not feel the anxiety of others. So, since you are meditating deeply, then possibly the anxiety that you feel is the anxiety that other around you feel.
A few answers would be helpful from your own experience. I'm sure you have written about this?
Why do we get absorbed in deep meditation?
It is a natural state that some people who are more intelligent than others discover on their own when they take up a contemplative life.
Do we have these states when we sleep but unaware that its taking place?
We can. I have, but most people do not, because they do not lead a contemplative life.
Why does one feel bliss?
It is simply part of the experience of deep meditation. Also, if it was not blissful, then it would not be compelling enough to pursue deep meditation, as well as put up with the strange charisms, as well as the spiritual crises that are part and parcel of an interior life that goes to depth.
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I noticed that as I meditated deeply that I would become aware of the mental state of others
Yes I find this too. But as I can't read minds I do feel the knots tied deeply in their minds.
I happened to find it easier to meditate deeply when in the wilderness, so I went on hikes nearly every day, as everywhere in Tucson is only about 20 minutes from a hiking trail. I also spent at least 2 weeks camping in the wilderness every year, as well as I attended at least one 10-day meditation retreat each year. So, I developed skill with deep meditation, and self-awareness.
I have never attended a meditation retreat and feel that's not for me. As I'm a solitary person only venturing out from my space when necessary.
There were times when I felt anxious. When I examined myself I could not see a reason for the anxiety and determined that I was becoming aware of others around me who are anxious.
I agree with this and the only conclusion was the transformation in myself. I have also been absorbed in the meditation state when fully awake. i.e. not trying to meditate at all. Would you call this being saturated?
In sitting I also experience the loss of time when it feels like I have been meditating for twenty minutes when, actually its been close to 2 hours. Recently my deep meditation pattern has changed. I get absorbed one night and the next two nights I'm bordering around being absorbed. This feels at the moment enough as the absorption spills over to my normal state of being. Until the cycle starts again.
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I agree with this and the only conclusion was the transformation in myself. I have also been absorbed in the meditation state when fully awake. i.e. not trying to meditate at all. Would you call this being saturated?
Yes, that is the consensus here, because we who meditate deeply consistently tend to find the charisms are with us throughout the day.
In sitting I also experience the loss of time when it feels like I have been meditating for twenty minutes when, actually its been close to 2 hours.
Space/time dilation is a characteristic of the fourth stage of depth in meditation (4th jhana).
Recently my deep meditation pattern has changed. I get absorbed one night and the next two nights I'm bordering around being absorbed. This feels at the moment enough as the absorption spills over to my normal state of being. Until the cycle starts again.
It is a common experience for those who meditate deeply that there are waves or cycles to the depth. We just get used to it, but show up regularly in case the rocket ship ride to the center of the universe shows up to. Otherwise we might miss the ride.
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Hey, I know you're not one for retreats, but I'd love to meet you.
Another guy that came for a retreat, Zach was really great.
The retreats are low pressure, not like the boot camp that I expected.
Anyway, no pressure. It's lovely to read your posts. Very inspirational.
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Jeffrey, I just put 2 and 2 together about anxiety.
When we're camping together, do you feel my anxiety? If so, thanks for making the sacrifice.
Overall, I'm just curious. I figured if if bothered you too much, you'd do something about it. But it was just something that I wondered about while re-reading this thread.
Be well.
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Hey, I know you're not one for retreats, but I'd love to meet you.
I have thought about it after I posted my comment. But it will take some planing to get there.
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Jeffrey, I just put 2 and 2 together about anxiety.
When we're camping together, do you feel my anxiety? If so, thanks for making the sacrifice.
Overall, I'm just curious. I figured if if bothered you too much, you'd do something about it. But it was just something that I wondered about while re-reading this thread.
Be well.
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Yes, of course I feel your anxiety. Stu also says he feels the anxiety of others. He once commented about how difficult it is for him to walk into a WalMart.
Once one becomes fully established in equanimity, then one can walk into a crowded place and not be bothered by it. The third stage of samadhi is where we develop equanimity. When we regularly meditate at that depth or greater, then the anxiety of others does not bother us; however, we may still choose not to be immersed in the anxiety of others.
Hey, I know you're not one for retreats, but I'd love to meet you.
I have thought about it after I posted my comment. But it will take some planing to get there.
Our retreats are a cooperative venture, so when someone is interested, then we start some planning. The spring and fall here in Prescott are best. Winters are a bit cold, and can be very cold; and the summers are a bit warm, to hot.
Wickenburg, where we retreated last winter, was quite pleasant for a winter holidays retreat. I plan to winter there again this winter, if all goes well.
My van is about dead, so I am presently working on my truck to see if I can get it running reliably again. I will keep all posted here on my progress.
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Our retreats are a cooperative venture, so when someone is interested, then we start some planning.
It would be a treat to meet you and others who are contemplative. Its just that I'm 9000 plus mi away. I'm sure there are others that travel that far.
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There is no need to go to a lot of trouble to attend our retreats. Sometimes people are not far away, so we invite those who came make it.
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Work has taken priority over my practice and I need to find balance.
Lately I have been experiencing a second presence always behind my right side. I keep looking back to see who it is. I have read about this phenomenon when sailors get hypothermia or freezing to death at the arctic tundra. They also report this second presence but in more detail.
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How is the presence? Neutral, good or malevolent.
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My dog sits behind my right side when I'm working at my desk. I made a metal note not to push the chair out as it has rollers. So there you have it. I think this metal note manifested itself as an automatic check. Even when his not there.
Not mysterious at all...
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I've being seeing various colors and a few objects.
Colors in order are orange and yellow or gold. I don't see them sequentially but one at a time when I sit to the next sit. The orange I've seen twice but the yellow or gold is new.
The first object was blue opaque like stone but in a pendent lying flat clasped in sliver. The second is grey squared like stone.
Does this mean jhana-nimitta?
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Does this mean jhana-nimitta?
This is a very difficult question to answer, because the mind can project an infinity of apparent objects to confuse us. So, first we must learn to still the mind. Once the mind is still, then the charisms (jhana-nimittas) arise. The charisms occur in every sensory filed, and have their own unique expressions, but they all have one thing in common. The mind is not needed to manifest them.
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I have experienced many things when sitting. Just questioned what I'm seeing. I see what I see but don't entertain what is being looked at. Absorption is the state of mind yes?
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If your mind is still, then you are in absorption, which means whatever arises is a quality of that absorption, or altered state of mind. Some phenomena is unique to a particular session. Whatever is a consistent quality of that altered state of mind, then one could call it a charism (jhana-nimitta). When we see these phenomena arise, then we can use them as a vehicle to take us to the next level deeper in absorption. If the phenomena works to take us deeper into absorption, then it is a charism (jhana-nimitta), because they are sign posts along the way that direct us deeper, and this is why we use them as a meditation object, which replaces the cognitive meditation object that we use to get to the first level of absorption.
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I've lost the ability to drop into an altered state of mind or any state. These past months have been and still are well, useless.
When It started I had the feeling to quit the world. Nothing has real meaning if I can't get out of this shit hole. I'm running on replay and everyday its the same hole staring me in the face. There are days that have glimmers but most are dark and far between.
I've been meaning to write but this is all that I can squeeze.
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I've lost the ability to drop into an altered state of mind or any state. These past months have been and still are well, useless.
In the beginning of arriving at jhana it typically is a random experience, and most often it is during a retreat. Those who develop skill with the attainment of jhana learn to make a number of lifestyle changes that make it possible to experience jhana, eventually every time they meditate. So, if you had better access to jhana in the past, then look to see what has changed about your life that makes it difficult for you now.
When It started I had the feeling to quit the world.
The mystics of the past generally quit the world, and just focused upon fine tuning the altered states of consciousness which we call jhana here. So, I am not surprised that you have considered this.
Nothing has real meaning if I can't get out of this shit hole. I'm running on replay and everyday its the same hole staring me in the face. There are days that have glimmers but most are dark and far between.
I've been meaning to write but this is all that I can squeeze.
For those who have had at least one experience of deep meditation, the world begins to have little meaning for them. This state I call a spiritual crisis, or dark night of the soul. As long as we find our self outside of the rarefied environment of the deep states we feel as if we have been thrown out of paradise. Well, we have been. We begin to thirst for our return to Paradise, and eventually we become wholly obsessed with that return, and once we have that return we rarely are willing to leave it. Keeping Paradise with us 24/7 becomes a 24/7 occupation.
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I've lost the ability to drop into an altered state of mind or any state. These past months have been and still are well, useless.
In the beginning of arriving at jhana it typically is a random experience, and most often it is during a retreat. Those who develop skill with the attainment of jhana learn to make a number of lifestyle changes that make it possible to experience jhana, eventually every time they meditate. So, if you had better access to jhana in the past, then look to see what has changed about your life that makes it difficult for you now.
When It started I had the feeling to quit the world.
The mystics of the past generally quit the world, and just focused upon fine tuning the altered states of consciousness which we call jhana here. So, I am not surprised that you have considered this.
Nothing has real meaning if I can't get out of this shit hole. I'm running on replay and everyday its the same hole staring me in the face. There are days that have glimmers but most are dark and far between.
I've been meaning to write but this is all that I can squeeze.
For those who have had at least one experience of deep meditation, the world begins to have little meaning for them. This state I call a spiritual crisis, or dark night of the soul. As long as we find our self outside of the rarefied environment of the deep states we feel as if we have been thrown out of paradise. Well, we have been. We begin to thirst for our return to Paradise, and eventually we become wholly obsessed with that return, and once we have that return we rarely are willing to leave it. Keeping Paradise with us 24/7 becomes a 24/7 occupation.
Praying for you. Please be well. I hope you get some meditation in, at least.
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For those who have had at least one experience of deep meditation, the world begins to have little meaning for them. This state I call a spiritual crisis, or dark night of the soul. As long as we find our self outside of the rarefied environment of the deep states we feel as if we have been thrown out of paradise. Well, we have been. We begin to thirst for our return to Paradise, and eventually we become wholly obsessed with that return, and once we have that return we rarely are willing to leave it. Keeping Paradise with us 24/7 becomes a 24/7 occupation.
I've been locked out of Paradise! She was so quick to welcome me and yet I sailed alone through the dark. The experiences I've had while locked are indescribable. No mere mortal would comprehend. Unless we both understand the subscription.
The difficult part is this mundane existence I'm dealing with right now. What changed? Everything! I've tasted some of the fruits, which left me changed forever. There's no turning back. If I do I will be obliterated. If I continue I will be obliterated. The question is? which way? Sit for the path is straight and narrow is the gate.
Yes I will strive to attain Paradise once more..
Praying for you. Please be well. I hope you get some meditation in, at least.
Thanks.. I try and meditate but its useless for now. When I fell off, all I wanted to do was banish it for good.
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They say never mix money with family or friends.. Well I did just that. With a friend. I bankrolled a small business venture and it flopped.
With having little experience with Jhana has taught me is, to forgive the mistakes of others as well as myself. For we are all lost on some point within this timeline. I'm still broken and locked out of Paradise. But I can use what I've learnt and apply the experiences to cut through the veil of this illusion.
Happy to grope my way through the dark...
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I see no problem with funding a small business venture, but one has to keep in mind that investment is a form of gambling. We of course want to reduce our risks by making informed choices. My father became quite wealthy through investments. He made informed choices and he was apparently good at it.
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Life is a gamble. The choices we make are dictated by the actions we take whether we hit the ball or miss it completely. The reduced risk was marginalized on the type of product we where going to produce. The planning had been calculated, measured and weighed. All we had to do was execute. But when it comes down to physical people its a whole new story.
I'm not happy or upset that it flopped but see it as a lesson. It teaches me patience. Patience when meditating and knowing I'm on the right path. I like the word patience..
Google search has this to say about patience:
noun
1.
the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious.
"you can find bargains if you have the patience to sift through the rubbish"
synonyms: forbearance, tolerance, restraint, self-restraint, resignation, stoicism, fortitude, sufferance, endurance; More
2.
BRITISH
any of various forms of card game for one player, the object of which is to use up all one's cards by forming particular arrangements and sequences.
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Yes, patience: the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious.
synonyms: forbearance, tolerance, restraint, self-restraint, resignation, stoicism, fortitude, sufferance, endurance.
These are all some of the altruistic mental states that are readily accessible to those who learn to lead a disciplined, righteous, lifestyle that leads to deep meditation states.
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These are all some of the altruistic mental states that are readily accessible to those who learn to lead a disciplined, righteous, lifestyle that leads to deep meditation states.
Lets all be altruistic.. We living on borrowed time.
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I've clipped the nimitta.. Using the breath. At first it felt like yolk running down my head then covering my body (what felt like my body). I then realized the jhananimitta as bright as a thousand points of light.
I dropped the breath and transcended through time as if time itself accelerated. I differently pierced through what could be the nimitta.. As I arrived I became conscious of my breathing and the structure broke down. Leaving me still and calm. At that point I knew the experience was over.
This could be the start or just a lucky packed.
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I can never read enough of these meditation success stories. Thanks for sharing this. Here's to keeping up the good work.
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I've clipped the nimitta.. Using the breath. At first it felt like yolk running down my head then covering my body (what felt like my body). I then realized the jhananimitta as bright as a thousand points of light.
I dropped the breath and transcended through time as if time itself accelerated. I differently pierced through what could be the nimitta.. As I arrived I became conscious of my breathing and the structure broke down. Leaving me still and calm. At that point I knew the experience was over.
This could be the start or just a lucky packed.
I found that if I meditated consistently, and learned from my past experiences, and leaned toward the deep meditation experience, then I would have more of these experiences, until the charisms have become part of my moment-to-moment daily experience.
I can never read enough of these meditation success stories. Thanks for sharing this. Here's to keeping up the good work.
Yes, reading the books by the mystics was a major inspiration for me, so providing a forum for modern day mystics to report on their experiences was my intention to inspire others to meditate deeply.
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Somedays I'm angry others I'm extremely happy. But today, I'm swimming in ecstasy.
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Would the feeling of ecstasy be considered as one for the charisms?
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Somedays I'm angry others I'm extremely happy. But today, I'm swimming in ecstasy.
As you meditate deeper you will develop equanimity so that the roller-coaster of emotions released by deep meditation smooths out.
Would the feeling of ecstasy be considered as one for the charisms?
Yes, I would say that the feeling of ecstasy experienced in deep meditation should be considered a charism.
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Does deeper meditation or experiencing the results of deep meditation have any negative effects on ones life? i.e. The dark knight happens every time when one experiences what you call the religious experience or Jhana?
In the beginning I experienced Jhana a lot. Right after those experiences I fell into the dark knight. I have since overcome this and life returned to an acceptable state. Again I experienced Jhana a few times and again my life is in an unacceptable state.
But this time its different. I feel indifferent. Before it was an emotional attachment fueled by fear. Now its just an experience that needs to run its course. But it also feels like when one experiences Jhana either once or in sessions. The dark knight or not is worse than the previous one.
The first was emotional attachment fueled by fear. This one is random acts occurring of just that. So does having Jhana cause one to go through these events or lets say a need to but lets speed up your dark knight because that's what the doctor prescribe?
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Does deeper meditation or experiencing the results of deep meditation have any negative effects on ones life? i.e. The dark knight happens every time when one experiences what you call the religious experience or Jhana?
Deeper meditation itself has no negative effects - as you said it is rather rapture, bliss of jhana states. But deeper meditation's aims,or at least one of them, is to move very deep part of mind's habits of reacting to the sensations. This enables you to practice equanimity ( best imho in 4th jhana - you experience state of equanimity but also you can train yourself in remaining balanced while facing 'dark (k)night'. Dark night is the best thing that can happen - this gives you the right condition to meditate with past deeds.
In the beginning I experienced Jhana a lot. Right after those experiences I fell into the dark knight. I have since overcome this and life returned to an acceptable state. Again I experienced Jhana a few times and again my life is in an unacceptable state.
Then equanimity factor of enlightenment and also strong will/right effort are missing. One need to practice them along with samadi so that deep meditation entry has no effect on different than a very positive one.
Deep meditation is in fact not about jhana, but like a purgatory. It is far more advanced hell on the earth for some years of meditation to eliminate all defilements. The second time one experiences Nibanic peace, Sakrudagami state it is, about 50% of pain and 50% of jhana are present. So abusing the vocabulary we can say one reach balance at this moment.
But this time its different. I feel indifferent. Before it was an emotional attachment fueled by fear. Now its just an experience that needs to run its course. But it also feels like when one experiences Jhana either once or in sessions. The dark knight or not is worse than the previous one.
After eliminating the fetters is gonna be all right. Before that it is all hell.
The first was emotional attachment fueled by fear. This one is random acts occurring of just that. So does having Jhana cause one to go through these events or lets say a need to but lets speed up your dark knight because that's what the doctor prescribe?
Fear is strongest one. It pops out as the first and disappears as the last one...make friendship with him.
Good luck!
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Does deeper meditation or experiencing the results of deep meditation have any negative effects on ones life? i.e. The dark knight happens every time when one experiences what you call the religious experience or Jhana?
It depends upon your perspective. If you consider that almost everyone is deeply delusional, then as one matures as a contemplative in deep meditation, then one sheds the delusions that others have. This makes the mob nervous when someone in the mob loses their delusions.
In the beginning I experienced Jhana a lot. Right after those experiences I fell into the dark knight. I have since overcome this and life returned to an acceptable state. Again I experienced Jhana a few times and again my life is in an unacceptable state.
Deep meditation tends to bring our attention to the dysfunctions that exist in our life. This is called the dark night of the soul, which is a good thing, and necessary to overcome the delusions.
But this time its different. I feel indifferent. Before it was an emotional attachment fueled by fear. Now its just an experience that needs to run its course. But it also feels like when one experiences Jhana either once or in sessions. The dark knight or not is worse than the previous one.
When equanimity arises due to deep meditation, then the dark night becomes less, and less.
The first was emotional attachment fueled by fear. This one is random acts occurring of just that. So does having Jhana cause one to go through these events or lets say a need to but lets speed up your dark knight because that's what the doctor prescribe?
Jhana, aka deep meditation, then we want to shed our neuroses.