Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Samadhi => : Tad October 13, 2021, 12:17:10 PM
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Dear Mystics,
In your opinion, which is cause and which is effect when it comes to jhana and elimination of hindrances? Does jhana cause elimination of hindrances or does elimination of hindrances cause jhana?
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Hello, Tad, it is good to hear from you. Thank you for asking such a good question. I hope others respond to your question from their experience.
I find the presence of the hindrances verses jhana really go hand in hand. While the attainment of jhana necessitates discipline, which results in a decline in the hindrances; nonetheless, we can also use the relative presence of the hindrances as a guide for the relative attainment of the superior fruit (jhana/phala). So, I tend to go by the quote from the Gospels, "We know a tree by its fruit." However, just because someone does not exhibit the hindrances does not necessarily demonstrate that individual has any jhana attainment.
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Hello Tad, and thank you for the interesting question. I personally lean toward the "John of the Cross" interpretation of the fetters. If you read the writings of John, who was one of the great psychologists of the spirit, he puts particular emphasis on the stages of the spiritual crisis when discussing the path to self-perfection. He divides the crisis into two major stages: the "night of sense" (John writes about this stage in The Ascent of Mt. Carmel) and the "night of spirit" (John writes about this stage in his more famous book, The Dark Night of the Soul).
The first of these nights includes the experience of metanoia: the thinking over of oneself and one's history, re-assessing one's view of the world, and re-organizing the different faculties of the self. Accompanying this are often periods of great turmoil. In the Catholic tradition, they often refer to overcoming the Seven Deadly Sins as part of this stage. One shifts the self's focus away from materialism/the world, which is seen as not ultimately satisfying, and orienting it instead inwardly/contemplatively. Each step of increasing re-orientation usually results in an increase in stillness.
The second night is called the Dark Night of the Soul. This includes a much more dramatic state of self-abnegation and self-transcendence, in which one disidentifies and disassociates further from the normal sense of "I." I quoted an event from the life of Suso previously which I feel portrays this well:
A malicious woman accused him [a Dominican friar] of being the father of her child, and succeeded for the time in entirely destroying his reputation. “And the scandal was all the greater ... because the rumor of that brother’s sanctity had spread so far.”
Poor Suso was utterly crushed by this calumny, “wounded to the depths of his heart.” “Lord, Lord!” he cried, “every day of my life I have worshipped Thy holy Name in many places, and have helped to cause it to be loved and honored by many men: and now Thou wouldst drag my name through the mud!”
When the scandal was at its height, a woman of the neighborhood came to him in secret; and offered to destroy the child which was the cause of this gossip, in order that the tale might be more quickly forgotten and his reputation restored. She said further that unless the baby were somehow disposed of, he would certainly be forced by public opinion to accept it, and provide for its upbringing.
Suso, writhing as he was under the contempt of the whole neighborhood, the apparent ruin of his career—knowing, too, that this slander of one of their leaders must gravely injure the reputation of the Friends of God—was able to meet the temptation with a noble expression of trust. “I have confidence in the God of Heaven, Who is rich, and Who has given me until now all that which was needful unto me. He will help me to keep, if need be, another beside myself.” And then he said to his temptress, “Go, fetch the little child that I may see it.”
And when he had the baby, he put it on his knees and looked at it: and the baby began to smile at him. And sighing deeply, he said, “Could I kill a pretty baby that smiled at me? No, no, I had rather suffer every trial that could come upon me!” And turning his face to the unfortunate little creature, he said to it, “Oh my poor, poor little one! Thou art but an unhappy orphan, for thy unnatural father hath denied thee, thy wicked mother would cast thee off, as one casts off a little dog that has ceased to please! The providence of God hath given thee to me, in order that I may be thy father. ... Thou shalt be my son, and the child of the good God; and as long as heaven gives me a mouthful, I shall share it with thee, for the greater glory of God ... my darling son!”
The story goes on: “And when the hard-hearted woman who had wished to kill the little one saw these tears, when she heard these tender words, she was greatly moved: and her heart was filled with pity, and she too began to weep and cry aloud. ... And he enjoined the woman to care for [the child] well at his expense.”
Small wonder that after this heroic act of charity Suso’s reputation went from bad to worse; that even his dearest friends forsook him, and he narrowly escaped expulsion from the religious life. His torments and miseries, his fears for the future, continued to grow until they at last came to their term in a sort of mental crisis.
As you can see, there is a dramatic assault on the fundamental sense of I-hood here. In the Christian tradition, those who undergo this experience are sometimes said to have "won their crowns."
If we take these crises and compare them to the other contemplative traditions, we can draw these parallels:
Teresa of Avila's mansions 1-3 correlate with the first stage
Teresa's mansions 4-7 correlate with the second stage
Patanjali's yama, niyama, pratyahara and dharana - the experiences of virtue, austerity, sense withdrawal, and concentration - correlate with the first stage
Patanjali's dhyana and samadhi - meditation and samadhi - correlate with the second stage
In the classic mystical tradition, we would place John's stages here:
1 Awakening (realizing the value of the spiritual life, re-orienting oneself to value it)
2 Purgation (John's night of sense, purification from the base fetters)
3 Illumination (a period of stillness and consolation - the first successes in the contemplative life following purgation happen here)
4 Dark Night of the Soul (a period of renewed crisis following the first steps as a contemplative, the higher fetters are overcome here)
5 Union (the culmination of the quest, the mystic rose, the state of spiritual union and completion)
For the Buddhist tradition, we would link the jhanas here:
Jhanas 1 + 2: follow the first stage
Jhanas 3 + 4, and the OOBE: follow the second stage
That is of course the "classical" description of the spiritual life, and everyone's experience will be different. But, it does seem a relatively similar path, described in very comparable ways by the different traditions.
Hope that helps :)
Om namah shivaya
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Thank you, Alexander, for your interesting interpretation of a fruitful interior life. The story of Suso souds very instructive. I have never heard of him. So, who is Suso? What culture, religion and time period is he from?
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Thank you, dear friends, for sharing your thoughts. Alexander, like always you bring interesting comparisons to Christian mystic traditions.
My understanding leans toward the assessmemt that jhana is the cause of reduced hindrances. I think that no matter how much discipline or understanding of the danger of sensual pleasures one develops, there is no true freedom from craving until one learns to experience joy from meditation. Because the mind will not let go until it touches greater happiness than what can be gained from the sensual stimulation.
By the way, there is a lot to learn from Christian mystic traditions. However, it seems to me that even the most dedicated Christians go through more struggle than needed because they do not practice anapanasati meditation. It seems that they place most emphasis on determination to fight temptation which is of course a noble thing. But I dont see how it can eliminate hindrances for good.
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So, well put, Tad. Thank you. You have clearly understood a contemplative practice that leads to superior fruit.
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I think that no matter how much discipline or understanding of the danger of sensual pleasures one develops, there is no true freedom from craving until one learns to experience joy from meditation. Because the mind will not let go until it touches greater happiness than what can be gained from the sensual stimulation.
This has been my experience as well, the longer and longer I meditate, progress was made only when I learned to inculcate joy in the actual sit. Though this might sound nitpicky, I think discipline is necessary for it. The constant process of vicara which continuously brings the mind back to the object of meditation whenever it strays or is distracted for the desire of stimulation starts to condition the brain to prefer the state of absorption and concentration.
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I completely agree with you two, Rodan, and Tad. Bliss is a critical aspect of leading a fruitful contemplative life, and such a lifestyle necessitates discipline.
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Thank you, Jhananda. The guidance on the Great Western Vehicle and this forum is definitely helpful with all the emphasis on samadhi.
Regarding discipline, I agree that it is absolutely necessary for progress. But discipline alone cannot give full freedom.
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Thank you, Jhananda. The guidance on the Great Western Vehicle and this forum is definitely helpful with all the emphasis on samadhi.
Thank you, Tad, for expressing your kind thoughts regarding the services of the GWV. What do you have in mind when wrote the following?
Regarding discipline, I agree that it is absolutely necessary for progress. But discipline alone cannot give full freedom.
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Thank you, Jhananda. The guidance on the Great Western Vehicle and this forum is definitely helpful with all the emphasis on samadhi.
Thank you, Tad, for expressing your kind thoughts regarding the services of the GWV. What do you have in mind when wrote the following?
Regarding discipline, I agree that it is absolutely necessary for progress. But discipline alone cannot give full freedom.
Well, my understanding is that discipline should serve like a pillar that supports practice. It takes discipline to routinely meditate, practice some sort of sense restraint, study, etc. However, if we try to combat hindrances purely through self discipline such as practicing abstinance and restraint, it can help manage hindrances. But they will not be uprooted. The only way for cutting the roots of hindrances seems to be through jhana.
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Well, my understanding is that discipline should serve like a pillar that supports practice. It takes discipline to routinely meditate, practice some sort of sense restraint, study, etc. However, if we try to combat hindrances purely through self discipline such as practicing abstinance and restraint, it can help manage hindrances. But they will not be uprooted. The only way for cutting the roots of hindrances seems to be through jhana.
While I completely agree with you that without jhana, or more precisely the 8 stages of samadhi, there is not liberation (vimokha) from the hindrances. However, I would also like to add there is no samadhi without submission/refuge, which produces the necessary relaxation needed for the depth of samadhi.
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Thank you, Jhananda. It is very helpful that you emphasize the relaxation aspect of samadhi. Can you explain more about the submission part? Is it about not clinging and returning to the object of meditation despite any thoughts and resistances in the mind?
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While there is a definite expression in the suttas regarding recollection of a previous experience of samadhi; nonetheless, we need to avoid being attached to the experience of samadhi and simply allow it to arise, much like how a flower simply opens in its time. So, there is a careful balance between recollection of the experience of depth in meditation, while submitting to the natural process of awakening. We don't make it happen, we allow it to happen through submission/refuge.