Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Case Histories with religious experiences => : Michel September 19, 2013, 10:24:13 PM
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I've been meditating for just over a year now. Currently, I try and do four one-hour sits daily.
Here are some my observations and things that I've learnt:
It 's good to let go and relax by doing absolutely nothing. I mean not making any effort to try and let go, or to try and relax; not trying to control anything - just letting things be by doing nothing, getting out of the way, letting things develop without any intervention or interference.
I've noticed that the mind is totally out of control. Our senses are completely out of our control. Our environment is totally out of our control . There is no control over these unstoppable forces. We are totally helpless. So if everything is hopelessly out of our control, then why should we fight it, or try to control it? Why waste the energy in such a hopeless situation. I think the best thing to do is to totally surrender. Give up completely. Allow everything to be. Go with the flow. The best place to be in a hurricane is in the eye of the hurricane. Just let everything swirl around you.
I've learnt that even though I'm not making any real progress, at the moment, in my meditation, it's best not to worry about it. I've discovered this past year that any desire to have a good meditation leads to frustration, discouragement and suffering. I've noticed that to want anything causes irritation, and, I think, that's a hindrance to successful meditation. The second Noble Truth is: the cause of suffering is attachment to desire. The third Noble Truth is: when attachment to desire ceases, suffering ceases. I believe contentment is the antidote to desire. The secret, I think, is therefore to be content with whatever arises in one's meditation. So I'm trying to be content with whatever sensations, feelings, with whatever arises during the course of the meditation. Just by letting everything be, and being happy with it.
Here's what I'm doing will I meditate:
I sit down on a sofa with my spine as straight as possible. (I can't sit with my legs crossed, I have nerve damage in my lower limbs. Maybe a highly adjustable ergonomic chair would be better.) Then, I close my eyes and place my attention on the breath. Sometimes I breath long breaths or short ones. I find a comfortable rhythm. Maybe this is controlling the breath? But it feels good. I also experiment with just letting the breathe find its own natural pace.Then I let go and relax.
Sometimes clouds of fog like sensations form in my head and they are neither pleasant or unpleasant. Well, maybe the odd little burst of pleasant sensations, but nothing strong and enduring. What I'm looking for is bliss and joy, but I've been largely unsuccessful. However, I do get relaxation when I let go.
Sometimes there is a strong pressure sensation that builds up in my head when I let go and relax. It's like the magnetic repulsion of two magnets of the same polarity. This energy manifests as a pulsating, bouncing, turbulent, intense swirl in my head. It wants to move upward as if it were a buoyant, giant helium balloon strongly drawing my head upwards. Or, it feels as if my head is being stretched upward and my face is being stretched and distorted in all kinds of ways, i.e. my nose is where my eye is, etc. This makes following the breath very difficult. Sometimes there is a strong downward pressure at the roof of my mouth. I guess it's a distortion of the senses.
I've also had occasions where evenly-suffused, intense sensations pervaded the head. It was a relaxing experience. The breath became interesting and easy to observe. I wasn't bored with it, nor did I have feelings of aversion for it because it was not to my liking. This feeling sometimes lasted for five to ten minutes or so, and is at times accompanied by a tranquil, silky, smooth and faint breath. There are no feelings of piiti and sukkha. Perhaps these sensations are waiting just around the corner, and all that is needed is to tranquilize the breath further. I notice that when I'm bored or have aversion for the breath, when I'm not satisfied with the breath -- thinking arises and takes hold.
One thing I've learned over the past year is if I am disturbed by a sound during meditation, it's just a sound, just to leave it at that. I don't let thoughts about it to proliferate, i.e. "Those damn neighbors! Will they ever stop that irritating noise." The noise causes a disturbance in my central nervous system. That's all. I let it slide, I let it subside by itself. I just sit there and observe my meditation object. That's what I try to do. Sometimes I use other objects of meditation, such as the sound of tinnitus in my ears. Sometimes I use the sensation of letting go as my meditation object. I experiment.
So, overall I think I'm in the pre-stages leading to the first jhana. It's taken me a year of hard work to get to this point.
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I've been meditating for just over a year now. Currently, I try and do four one-hour sits daily.
This is a very good practice strategy, but you would want to avoid wearing it out. If you find that meditation for us is a refuge, that it is pleasant, and you find some consolation, and therefore some conviction in practicing meditation, then you are most probably getting to the first jhana; because the first jhana is just the first detectable stage of the religious experience. It is not some utterly fantastic experience. that comes later.
I am learning to let go and relax by doing absolutely nothing. I mean not making any effort to try and let go, or to try and relax; not trying to control anything - just letting things be by doing nothing, getting out of the way, letting things develop without any interference on my part.
In the beginning this is a good strategy, because in the beginning we are so used to controlling everything in our lives, that most people do not get to even the first jhana because they are too much involved in controlling the experience.
I've noticed that the mind is totally out of control. Our senses are completely out of our control. Our environment is totally out of our control . There is no control over these unstoppable forces. We are totally helpless. So if everything is hopelessly out of our control, then why should we fight it, or try to control it? Why waste the energy in such a hopeless situation. I think the best thing to do is to totally surrender. Give up completely. Allow everything to be. Go with the flow.
This really is the magic formula for getting to the 2nd jhana, this is why almost every religion has a concept of letting go. In Christianity it is all about "thy will be done." In Islam it is all about submission to god. In Buddhism it is the refuge, etc.
The best place to be in a hurricane is in the eye of the hurricane. Just let everything swirl around you.
The eye of the storm is the still mind of the 2nd jhana, and the rest of the 6 stages of the religious experience; and we do not get there, except by developing ever deeper levels of letting go. However, at some point we must aspire to, and even actively engage in the relaxing process, and the stilling of the mind.
Although I'm not making any real progress, at the moment in my meditation, I'm learning not to worry about it. I've discovered this past year that any desire to have a good meditation leads to frustration, discouragement and suffering.
Yes, we even have to give up our craving for the religious experience to have deeper, and great religious experiences.
The secret, I think, is to be content with whatever arises. Contentment is the antidote to desire. So I'm trying to be content with whatever sensations arise during the course of the meditation. I'm looking for bliss and joy, but I've been largely unsuccessful. However, I do get relaxation when I let go. To want anything causes an irritation. And, I think, that's a hindrance to successful meditation.
Contentment is surely one of the core attainments that comes from a fruitful contemplative life. So, if you keep going, then you will find your contentment will increase, which will deepen your meditation experience, as well as enrich your life.
I sit down on a sofa with my spin as straight as possible. I can't sit on the floor, I have nerve damage in my lower limbs. Maybe a highly adjustable ergonomic chair would be better.
With as much meditation time as one, who attains abundant fruit (phala) from a contemplative life, one tends to hone, and hone, and hone, one's meditation posture. The goal is to find as comfortable a position to sit in, while remaining as deeply relaxed as possible. An erect spine definitely helps the rising of the kundalini. To improve my sitting posture I spent at least a decade practicing yoga every day to transform my body into one that could sit comfortably in cross-legged meditation.
I also worked, and reworked my meditation seat. I found a raised cushion that was slightly ramped rising to the rear smoothly, wihat no wrinkles worked best. And, I found that foam and cotton were not helpful, because they cause heat in my body to pool; whereas wool and silk breath. So, I sat on wool blankets shaped into a wedge, and I rolled the rear of the wedge up against my but, and wrapped it around my butt. I also wore wool or silk pants, and silk under pants, and, if it was cold, then I wore a wool blanket. But, whatever works is important, and if you have nerve damage, then a couch maybe the best thing for you.
Some people find laying down meditation works best for them. Shiva and Siddhartha Gautama found laying down meditation worked best for them. They are commonly represented in laying down meditation posture. Laying down meditation posture is a posture all mystics develop, because you cannot go OOBE without it. Also, you cannot meditate all night long sitting up, so Laying down meditation posture is best for that. This is when we develop lucid dreaming, the OOBE, and the traversing of the upper 4 stages of the religious experience.
Some find standing posture works best for them. Standing in meditation is just finding a comfortable stance and relaxing deeply into it, and stilling the mind, etc. The Tai Chi standing posture is an excellent example of a well developed standing meditation posture.
Walking meditation is another posture that is described in the suttas, and it works for many. The practice of Tai Chi and Chi Gong, are excellent examples of walking meditation.
I studied Tai Chi the year after I took up a meditation practice. I found the standing and walking forms of Tai Chi worked excellently for me to develop my standing and walking meditation practice. However, remembering the 64 posture form I found not conducive to deep meditation while walking. Instead I took the basic concepts behind Tai CHi and thru out the form and just walked about in deep meditation while moving my body and arms in a Tai Chi-like manor. I found doing so worked very well at developing deep meditation states.
There is a guy, Millennium Twain, I met in Santa Monica, he later moved to Ojai. I taught him the walking and standing forms that lead to jhana. He made at least one YouTube video on it. He calls it "jhana walk." Jhana DreamTime Walkers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshpQhstMDU). The video does not seem to work anymore.
I place my attention on the breath. Sometimes I breath long breaths or short ones. I find a comfortable rhythm. Maybe this is controlling the breath? But it feels good.
If, whatever we do is relaxing, comforting, and feels good, then it probably leads to the religious experience (jhana). However, when I meditation I just let the breath do whatever it is going to do, while I observe it.
When the mind becomes still, then I observe the still mind as a meditation object. As the pleasant, blissful, charismatic sensations of the religious experience arises, then I take each one of them as a meditation object as they arise. This means at deep levels of the religious experience I have many meditation objects.
It is a little like listening to an orchestra perform a complex piece. An audiofile will here every instrument. In the same way, a skilled contemplative will sense in great detail all of the subtle phenomena of the religious experience.
I also experiment with just letting the breathe find its own natural pace.Then I let go and relax, but there are no sensations of bliss and joy. There are clouds of fog like sensations in my head which are neither pleasant or unpleasant. Well, maybe the odd little burst of pleasant sensations, but nothing strong and enduring.
Learning to take comfort in the practice of meditation, and even find the practice of meditation, not just a refuge, but pleasant, leads to the first jhana.
Sometimes there is a strong pressure sensation that builds up in my head when I let go and relax. It's like the magnetic repulsion of two magnets of the same polarity. This energy manifests as a pulsating, bouncing, turbulent, intense swirl in my head. It wants to move upward as if it were a buoyant, helium balloon drawing my head upwards. Or, it feels as if my head is being stretched upward and my face is being stretched and distorted in all kinds of ways, i.e. my nose is where my eye is, etc...Sometimes there is a strong downward pressure at the roof of my mouth. I guess it's a distortion of the senses.
This is a religious experience. This is jhana. These sensations are the jhana-nimitta, or charisms.
This makes following the breath very difficult.
When the charisms (jhana-nimitta) arise, is when you dump the meditation object, and use the charisms as your new meditation object. Obsessing over the meditation object, and ignoring the charisms is why most people who meditation never have a religious experience.
I've also had occasions where evenly-suffused, intense sensations pervaded the head. It was a relaxing experience. The breath became interesting and easy to observe. I wasn't bored with it, nor did I have feelings of aversion for it, because it wasn't to my liking. This feeling sometimes lasted for five to ten minutes or so, and is at times accompanied by a tranquil, silky, smooth and faint breath.
These are more charisms (jhana-nimitta). So, when they next arise, then use them as your meditation object, and dump the cognitive meditation objects, such as the breath, body scanning, Satipathana etc.
There are no feelings of piiti and sukkha. Perhaps these sensations are waiting just around the corner, and all that is needed is to tranquilize the breath further.
The deeply emotional experience of bliss, (piiti) and joy (sukha) are indeed just around the corner of this experience; however, the charisms (jhana-nimitta) constitute bliss (piiti). Every one who has not had a religious experience has no idea what bliss, and the charisms are.
I notice that when I'm bored or have aversion for the breath, when I'm not satisfied with the breath -- thinking arises and takes hold.
This is true for all contemplatives. So, learn to find comfort, bliss and joy, in the charisms (jhana-nimitta).
One thing I've learned over the past year is if I hear a sound during meditation, it's just a sound. I don't let thoughts about it to proliferate, i.e. "Those damn neighbors! Will they ever stop that irritating noise." The noise causes a disturbance in my central nervous system. That's all. I let it slide, I let it subside by itself. I just sit there and observe my meditation object. That's what I try to do.
This is skillful means, and leads to equanimity, which is the definition of the 3rd jhana.
Sometimes I use other objects of meditation, such as the sound of tinnitus in my ears.
When did you develop tinnitus? What were the conditions that caused it?
Sometimes I use the sensation of letting go as my meditation object.
Using the sensation of letting go as a meditation object is very good.
I experiment.
So, overall I think I'm in the pre-stages leading to the first jhana. It's taken me a year of hard work to get to this point.
Experimenting in the early stages of meditation practice is a good thing. Keep searching for what calms your mind and relaxes you, and comforts you. However, it looks to me like you are beyond the beginning stages and you are bumping into the charisms, but you did not know what to look for, or how to respond to it. I hope my responses here will help you and others to deepen your meditation experience.
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Well, thank-you kindly, Jhanananda, for your detailed comments. I'm thinking about everything you have said. I'm trying to incorporate many of your suggestions into my practice. It's very helpful, because already I've experienced an increase of bliss in my meditation.
I studied Tai Chi the year after I took up a meditation practice. I found the standing and walking forms of Tai Chi worked excellently for me to develop my standing and walking meditation practice. However, remembering the 64 posture form I found not conducive to deep meditation while walking. Instead I took the basic concepts behind Tai CHi and thru out the form and just walked about in deep meditation while moving my body and arms in a Tai Chi-like manor. I found doing so worked very well at developing deep meditation states.
There is a guy, Millennium Twain, I met in Santa Monica, he later moved to Ojai. I taught him the walking and standing forms that lead to jhana. He made at least one YouTube video on it. He calls it "jhana walk." Jhana DreamTime Walkers. The video does not seem to work anymore.
This is an improvement over traditional forms of walking meditation. I've been moving about in a similar fashion to what is shown in this beautiful Millennium Twain video, which is, I think, an improvised dance form derived in the spirit of Tai Chi. I notice that doing this type of dance movement calms the mind and body. It's also good exercise. I love this video, and I now dance along with it as part of my daily practice. It's really that good.
As the pleasant, blissful, charismatic sensations of the religious experience arises, then I take each one of them as a meditation object as they arise. This means at deep levels of the religious experience I have many meditation objects.
It is a little like listening to an orchestra perform a complex piece. An audiofile will here every instrument. In the same way, a skilled contemplative will sense in great detail all of the subtle phenomena of the religious experience.
I've been doing something similar to this orchestra analogy. I am continually shifting my attention to whatever sensation or feeling is dominant. I actually used the sound of a chain saw as my meditation object during one of my meditations. The sound was the dominant sensation, so I put my attention there. I think the idea is to put your main attention on the piiti and sukha, but sometimes sensations are so overwhelming that they overtake everything, and maybe it's best to put ones attention there and ride it out instead of fighting it. So, you can use anything as your meditation object, not just the breath. I'm experimenting with this. I've been getting more blissful in my latest meditations using this approach. What do you think?
Quote from: Michel on September 19, 2013, 03:24:13 PM
Sometimes I use other objects of meditation, such as the sound of tinnitus in my ears.
When did you develop tinnitus? What were the conditions that caused it?
The tinnitus is nothing unusual. I've had it before I even started meditating. It's not a product of meditation, it's not a charism.
One thing I might add is, I use shooters ear mufflers when I meditate. They mute sound levels by about 30 decibels. It's noisy where I live, sometimes. The drawback is internal body noises, like the heart beating or tinnitus, become more amplified . However, I'm use to this.
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Well, thank-you kindly, Jhanananda, for your detailed comments. I'm thinking about everything you have said. I'm trying to incorporate many of your suggestions into my practice. It's very helpful, because already I've experienced an increase of bliss in my meditation.
This is very good news.
This is an improvement over traditional forms of walking meditation. I've been moving about in a similar fashion to what is shown in this beautiful Millennium Twain video, which is, I think, an improvised dance form derived in the spirit of Tai Chi. I notice that doing this type of dance movement calms the mind and body. It's also good exercise. I love this video, and I now dance along with it as part of my daily practice. It's really that good.
Thank-you, I am glad that you found the video and technique useful. The walking meditation practices that I have witnessed in Buddhism just do not seem to be as helpful as the free-form Tai Chi style that I developed for myself in about 1974. Here is a link to a YouTube I created on the subject at the summer 2012 GWV retreat: Walking Meditation that leads to jhana (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzN_ceUh_9Q)
I've been doing something similar to this orchestra analogy. I am continually shifting my attention to whatever sensation or feeling is dominant. I actually used the sound of a chain saw as my meditation object during one of my meditations. The sound was the dominant sensation, so I put my attention there. I think the idea is to put your main attention on the piiti and sukha, but sometimes sensations are so overwhelming that they overtake everything, and maybe it's best to put ones attention there and ride it out instead of fighting it. So, you can use anything as your meditation object, not just the breath. I'm experimenting with this. I've been getting more blissful in my latest meditations using this approach. What do you think?
Good to hear you are doing this. I do the same thing, and I find taking the dominant sensation skilful means; however, for me these days my attention is so at rest upon the charisms 24-7 that I can hear charismatic sound, and feel charismatic tactile sensation even when a loud sire is close by. So, if I encounter a disturbing sound, or sensation, then I just retreat into the charisms.
The tinnitus is nothing unusual. I've had it before I even started meditating. It's not a product of meditation, it's not a charism.
I am always vigilant when I hear a contemplative has tinnitus, because too often contemplatives get to one charism or another, and often charismatic sound, and have no skilled meditation teachers around to ask, so they go to the doctor who labels it tinnitus, so they never end up using the charismatic sound as a vehicle to deeper meditation states.
One thing I might add is, I use shooters ear mufflers when I meditate. They mute sound levels by about 30 decibels. It's noisy where I live, sometimes. The drawback is internal body noises, like the heart beating or tinnitus, become more amplified . However, I'm use to this.
Using ear plugs, and hearing protection is skilful means. Being able to hear the heart beat is actually quite useful in meditation, so you might try using it as a meditation object and see how it works for you.
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Hi Jhananda, I'm trying your method of shifting focus to feelings of piti and sukha when they arise. I'm starting to see results. Using relaxing and letting go as my meditation objects, I've noticed a definite increase of blissful sensations that arise from the base of the skull to the crown of the head. I believe there's a very strong correlation between the blissful sensations and relaxing and letting go. These blissful sensations will arise and fall many times, when they subside I return to my meditation object.
So if I keep practicing maybe one day the mind will become still, and then I'll be on my way to becoming a Zen master.
I've tried the other approach, advocated by many Therevadan teachers, which is staying focused on the breath while ignoring anything else that arises. This approach has given me limited success, and so I've abandoned it.
This quote shows where Thanissaro and you, Jhananda, have a parting of ways:
Thanissaro:
Pleasure is the sense of ease and well-being that come when the body feels soothed by the breath, and the mind is pleasurably interested in the work of the meditation. Here again it’s important to stay focused on the breath and not to focus on the pleasure, for that would lose touch with the causes of the concentration.
Instead, use your awareness of the breath and your powers of evaluation to allow—that’s the operative word: allow—the feelings of rapture and pleasure to fill the body. When rapture and pleasure totally interpenetrate the body, they strengthen the singleness of your preoccupation with the whole-body breath.
In this way, the activity of evaluation, instead of being an unfortunate unsteadiness in your concentration, actually strengthens it, so that the mind is ready to settle down more securely.
Thanissaro Bhikkhu (2013-02-01T08:00:00+00:00). With Each & Every Breath: A Guide to Meditation (Kindle Locations 1908-1944). Metta Forest Monastery. Kindle Edition.
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Hi Jhananda, I'm trying your method of shifting focus to feelings of piti and sukha when they arise. I'm starting to see results. Using relaxing and letting go as my meditation objects, I've noticed a definite increase of blissful sensations that arise from the base of the skull to the crown of the head. I believe there's a very strong correlation between the blissful sensations and relaxing and letting go. These blissful sensations will arise and fall many times, when they subside I return to my meditation object.
It sounds like you are already having success, because the blissful sensations that arise from the base of the skull to the crown of the head is one of the reported charisms observed by those who meditate deeply. So, just keep doing what you are doing, but make whatever adjustments you need to to maximize the charims.
So if I keep practicing maybe one day the mind will become still, and then I'll be on my way to becoming a Zen master.
When your mind is still, then you are at least at the level of the Zen Master, which is only the second jhana, and a number of people meditate at least to that level here on this forum, why there is no reason why you could not get there in a few weeks or months of skilled meditation practice.
I've tried the other approach, advocated by many Therevadan teachers, which is staying focused on the breath while ignoring anything else that arises. This approach has given me limited success, and so I've abandoned it.
This quote shows where Thanissaro and you, Jhananda, have a parting of ways:
Pleasure is the sense of ease and well-being that come when the body feels soothed by the breath, and the mind is pleasurably interested in the work of the meditation. Here again it’s important to stay focused on the breath and not to focus on the pleasure, for that would lose touch with the causes of the concentration.
There are a number of places where Thanissaro and I part, his ignoring the charisms is one of the major places were we differ. After all, just keep in mind the Competent Cook sutta Satipatthana Samyutta [SN 8] [8] (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/Phala_Nikaya/competentcook.htm).
Instead, use your awareness of the breath and your powers of evaluation to allow—that’s the operative word: allow—the feelings of rapture and pleasure to fill the body. When rapture and pleasure totally interpenetrate the body, they strengthen the singleness of your preoccupation with the whole-body breath.
In this way, the activity of evaluation, instead of being an unfortunate unsteadiness in your concentration, actually strengthens it, so that the mind is ready to settle down more securely.
Thanissaro Bhikkhu (2013-02-01T08:00:00+00:00). With Each & Every Breath: A Guide to Meditation (Kindle Locations 1908-1944). Metta Forest Monastery. Kindle Edition.
Another place where I differ from Thanissaro is he translates samadhi and jhana as merely 'concentration.' Anyone who believes samadhi and jhana are merely concentration has never had the experience of samadhi and jhana. This should remind us that just because someone has been a monk for a long time, or has translated large portions of religious literature, or has many followers, or is highly respected, does not mean that person knows how to meditate, or understands that religious literature.
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Quote from: Michel on October 01, 2013, 09:23:37 AM
Hi Jhananda, I'm trying your method of shifting focus to feelings of piti and sukha when they arise. I'm starting to see results. Using relaxing and letting go as my meditation objects, I've noticed a definite increase of blissful sensations that arise from the base of the skull to the crown of the head. I believe there's a very strong correlation between the blissful sensations and relaxing and letting go. These blissful sensations will arise and fall many times, when they subside I return to my meditation object.
Jhanananda:
It sounds like you are already having success, because the blissful sensations that arise from the base of the skull to the crown of the head is one of the reported charisms observed by those who meditate deeply. So, just keep doing what you are doing, but make whatever adjustments you need to to maximize the charims.
Thank-you for your words of encouragement, Jhanananda. I feel very fortunate to have you as my teacher. I guess you have tens of thousands of hours of experience; you must be up there in the 50 thousand hours plus catagory.
My last sit was particularly interesting. Blissful sensations arose in my head and stayed around for some 15-20 minutes until they burned out. I would describe the intensity of feeling on scale from 1 to 10 as a 5. I don't get a sense of joy from the blissful sensations; I usually feel ho-hum about them; I have a what next type of attitude; this applies even when the blissful sensations are intense. I feel this way probably because the sensations don't lead to anywhere, such as stilling the mind.
I start and end the day with meditation. I'm doing 5 sits from 45 minutes to 1 hour depending on how I feel. I tend to do less meditation when I'm tired. Do you think I should push it and do an hour no matter what?
How should one deal with pain during meditation, like a sore butt for instance?
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Thank-you for your words of encouragement, Jhanananda. I feel very fortunate to have you as my teacher. I guess you have tens of thousands of hours of experience; you must be up there in the 50 thousand hours plus catagory.
You are welcome.
I am not sure how many hours of meditation I have done. It is something like 3-6 hours a day, plus 6 hours of meditation during sleep time for the body, for 40 years, plus 30 10-day meditation retreats. Whatever that comes to
My last sit was particularly interesting. Blissful sensations arose in my head and stayed around for some 15-20 minutes until they burned out. I would describe the intensity of feeling on scale from 1 to 10 as a 5. I don't get a sense of joy from the blissful sensations; I usually feel ho-hum about them; I have a what next type of attitude; this applies even when the blissful sensations are intense. I feel this way probably because the sensations don't lead to anywhere, such as stilling the mind.
I can only hope that if you pursue this meditation model that you will find a still mind. However, part of stilling the mind successfully is learning to live in the moment.
If you keep going the bliss will become so intense that it is likely to scare you, so be patient.
I start and end the day with meditation. I'm doing 5 sits from 45 minutes to 1 hour depending on how I feel.
This sounds like a good practice strategy.
I tend to do less meditation when I'm tired. Do you think I should push it and do an hour no matter what?
Part of the art of successful meditation is knowing when to push through, and when to take it easy, so I cannot tell you what to do in these circumstance. I tend to meditate until the bliss settles down, and then I go to bed. It does not matter how late the meditation goes. However, I have had my best meditations when I noticed the bliss settle down, but I knew and hour had not gone by, so I just sat anyway, then I got the jackpot explosive kunalini to the 8th samadhi. You can never tell, so you just have to keep showing up.
How should one deal with pain during meditation, like a sore butt for instance?
Again, sometimes it is important to meditate through any discomfort; however, chronically meditating through the pain, as some meditation teachers teach, only leads to boredom, not bliss.
Another aspect of pain during meditation is the pain might be telling you something, like change your pillow, your posture, your clothes, your location, etc. I spent about 30 years honing my meditation clothes, posture, seat, location, etc. It paid off for me in lots of bliss.
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Thank-you for your reply, Jhananda.
I have been exploring two ways of letting go in my meditation practice.
I would describe my first method of letting go as being like a limp, drowned man, floating face down in the water, limbs spread out, bouncing about with the waves.
This is total passivity - I'm just floating in a sea of sensations primarily observing this sensation of letting go. When I succeed in letting go in this fashion, intense, blissful sensations will sometimes arise very rapidly. I use this type of letting go as my primary meditation object; but sometimes I'll switch over to the breath; and sometimes to whatever sensation is dominant - whatever feels right; there are no rules.
I would describe the second method of letting go as requiring volitional effort. Using the breath as my primary object of meditation, and letting go in a similar fashion to the drowned man simile, I relax after the in breath, and relax after the out breath; this takes an effort, and I notice that on both the in and out breaths, each time I relax, there is a slight disruption of the breathing process. This method is more tiresome, but it can also sometimes produce intense blissful sensations.
I prefer the first method. I find it is much more conducive to relaxing, and is effortless; but sometimes it doesn't work, so I try the second method. The second method, I think, could be smoothed out, honed to a fine edge, making it effortless too.
For me, letting go is a tough skill to master; but my gut tells me that it is one of the most important things to learn.
How would you describe letting go in the various stages of meditation?
PS - Do you think this post should be under a new topic, for a more general audience?
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Thank-you for your reply, Jhananda.
I have been exploring two ways of letting go in my meditation practice.
I prefer the first method. I find it is much more conducive to relaxing, and is effortless; but sometimes it doesn't work, so I try the second method. The second method, I think, could be smoothed out, honed to a fine edge, making it effortless too.
To me your second method leads to your first method; however, if you can get to the level of letting go that you described in your first method, without resorting to the second method, then I think you should do so.
For me, letting go is a tough skill to master; but my gut tells me that it is one of the most important things to learn.
You are correct, and without deep relaxation, or letting go, then you cannot hope to get to the second jhana.
How would you describe letting go in the various stages of meditation?
Each stage of the religious experience (samadhi) requires successively deeper levels of letting go, or relaxing. And, we need to let go of many things along the way.
When we let go of thinking, then we enter the 2nd jhana.
When we let go of perception, then we enter the 3rd jhana.
When we have let go of the body and its sensory domain completely, then we enter the immaterial domains.
Along the ways we go through many shades of non-dualism. When we let go of our identity completely, then we have become fully liberated.
PS - Do you think this post should be under a new topic, for a more general audience?
If you think this subject warrants more discussion then we could split it off and start a new thread.
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I would describe the second method of letting go as requiring volitional effort. Using the breath as my primary object of meditation, and letting go in a similar fashion to the drowned man simile, I relax after the in breath, and relax after the out breath; this takes an effort, and I notice that on both the in and out breaths, each time I relax, there is a slight disruption of the breathing process. This method is more tiresome, but it can also sometimes produce intense blissful sensations.
Just like you, sometimes when I am on the exhale I try to relax as much as possible like I am drowning downward, this really seems to stir up pleasant feelings.
Sometimes when I don't feel that I am progressing towards Jhana because of me being impatience, I try to remind myself about the bliss that I am "waiting" for.. usually after a few seconds or minutes it appears.
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I would describe the second method of letting go as requiring volitional effort...I prefer the first method. I find it is much more conducive to relaxing, and is effortless; but sometimes it doesn't work, so I try the second method...
In my last response, Michel, I forgot to discuss where your above quote links into vitaka and viccara. The "volitional effort" that you described in your second method is precisely what vitaka and viccara are. Sometimes we need them to get to the first jhana; however, we have to dump them to get to the second jhana. People who have not learned to meditate deeply never get beyond the volitional effort of vitaka and viccara. You, on the other hand, are clearly getting beyond the volitional effort of vitaka and viccara in your second meditation technique.
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Jhananda: The "volitional effort" that you described in your second method is precisely what vitaka and viccara are. Sometimes we need them to get to the first jhana; however, we have to dump them to get to the second jhana. People who have not learned to meditate deeply never get beyond the volitional effort of vitaka and viccara. You, on the other hand, are clearly getting beyond the volitional effort of vitaka and viccara in your second meditation technique.
Thank-you for this comment, Jhananda, it's food for thought.
My initial impression is when blissful feelings arise and take hold they almost feel beyond the effort of vitaka and viccara; it almost feels that you no longer have to apply and sustain your attention on your meditation object but you are still making a slight effort. However, sometimes there is no effort of having to apply and sustain your attention, it becomes just a case of simply observing those blissful sensations, you are just effortlessly floating about watching those blissful feelings as a passive observer. I'm not sure, it's possible that I may have experienced this a couple of times, but I'm not quite there yet since I do not do this consistent basis. I'm almost at the stage where intense blissful sensations last a long time and possibly lead to a still mind. I just need to keep at it. Do you think this makes sense?
Quote Ichago:
Sometimes when I don't feel that I am progressing towards Jhana because of me being impatience, I try to remind myself about the bliss that I am "waiting" for.. usually after a few seconds or minutes it appears.
Thanks for your comment, Ichago, very interesting.
I'll experiment with "reminding myself about the bliss that I am "waiting" for."
But what do you think about this, Ichigo and Jhananda? Is it possible maybe the actual act of thinking about the bliss that you want to arise becomes a new meditation object and this acts as a vehicle leading to actual bliss?
Here's an interesting video, Ichago, on letting go and other subjects, titled "Kundalini, chakras, the spiritual crisis and letting go" with Jhananda and his students:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA7ph1uSons
PS - I had a couple of interesting meditation sessions today where I used the sound of my heart as a meditation object [m/o]. [I use ear protectors, they amplify internal body sounds.] It's such an easy m/o to follow. It seems to be easier than following the breath. On every occasion that I used it intense blissful sensations arouse in a very short time. Whenever I shifted my attention to the blissful sensations they would subside. Maybe I should stay with my m/o longer and build up those blissful feelings. But this is really interesting!?
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Thanks for the video Michel, even though I already came across it :)
Is it possible maybe the actual act of thinking about the bliss that you want to arise becomes a new meditation object and this acts as a vehicle leading to actual bliss?
For me it's more like thinking about the bliss, or the feeling of bliss, or any other thing that can trigger even the smallest kind of a pleasant sensation, for some even a smile helps triggering a nice sensation, never got that to work though.. it's not like you start thinking about it the whole time in meditation, but just for a split second while keeping your attention on the breath.
Another way is to really find refuge in the breath, and when you inhale try to feel that you inhale something pleasant, like you really want more of that stuff (the breath), and when you exhale, the air goes out and you still feel that pleasant breath "outside" the nostrils or whatever..
Usually when I pay extra attention to the breath as something really pleasant, bliss start to bubble up and then the breath itself seems to be very pleasant of wanting to inhale and exhaling the breath.
I use ear protectors, they amplify internal body sounds.
You mean ear protectors like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-Ear-Muff-Muffler-Noise-Hearing-Protector-/261258778491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd43c977b
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Thank-you for your very helpful advice, Ichigo. I plan to try some of your ideas out for myself.
Ichigo: You mean ear protectors like this?...
Yes, similar to the ones that you show. I've been using shooters ear muffs for a year now. See link below.
The thing about these ear mufflers is that they reduce the sound levels by 30 decibels, which is at the upper end of sound reduction for mufflers. The ones in the link are from amazon.ca. I've had mine for over a year; they're well made -- don't go by the reviews, they're for people who use rifles and guns. For us peace lovers they're good enough.
When I use these muffs I hear internal body sounds, they become amplified. Just play around with the them until you hear something you like. Try a pair of cheap ear plugs and you'll get a similar effect, I'm sure.
Today, during 3 of my sits, every time I used the sound my heart beat as my meditation object, intense, blissful sensations would arise in my head in about 10 to 20 seconds, without fail. It's not as pleasant a sensation as compared to the breath, but it works for me.
http://www.amazon.ca/Howard-Leight-R-03318-Leightning-Shooters/dp/B001DZX86O/ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1361666220&sr=1-4
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Today, during 3 of my sits, every time I used the sound my heart beat as my meditation object, intense, blissful sensations would arise in my head in about 10 to 20 seconds, without fail. It's not as pleasant a sensation as compared to the breath, but it works for me.
Only 10-20 Seconds?! That sounds great!! from what I have heard is that when one puts sustained attention on the right side of the heart, this produce some kind of tinglings which will grow into blissful experience because the heart chakra gets stimulated this way.
I never really tried it myself though.
I myself was looking for some ear plugs, however I want to avoid ear plugs because one time it came inside my ear to deep and clogged my whole ear, and there are so many other negative experiences on the net about them that I prefer not to mess around with them.. that's why a few days ago I came pass those ear muffs, which are cheap as $4.. I know they are against very loud noises.. but I am not sure if they cancel other more low frequency noises such as normal conversations, annoying neighbours, media such as TV.. and if they aren't to tense on the head as a distraction to meditation..
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Thank-you for this comment, Jhananda, it's food for thought.
My initial impression is when blissful feelings arise and take hold they almost feel beyond the effort of vitaka and viccara; it almost feels that you no longer have to apply and sustain your attention on your meditation object but you are still making a slight effort. However, sometimes there is no effort of having to apply and sustain your attention, it becomes just a case of simply observing those blissful sensations, you are just effortlessly floating about watching those blissful feelings as a passive observer. I'm not sure, it's possible that I may have experienced this a couple of times, but I'm not quite there yet since I do not do this consistent basis. I'm almost at the stage where intense blissful sensations last a long time and possibly lead to a still mind. I just need to keep at it. Do you think this makes sense?
When you become a Stream Winner, then the charisms (jhana-nimitta) become easy to come by. Since you find them easy now to find, then you must be a Stream Winner. The Stream is the charisms.
But what do you think about this, Ichigo and Jhananda? Is it possible maybe the actual act of thinking about the bliss that you want to arise becomes a new meditation object and this acts as a vehicle leading to actual bliss?
Yes, anything that we attend to in a focused manner, whether it is abstract (nama) or concrete (rupa) is a meditation object.
PS - I had a couple of interesting meditation sessions today where I used the sound of my heart as a meditation object [m/o]. [I use ear protectors, they amplify internal body sounds.] It's such an easy m/o to follow. It seems to be easier than following the breath. On every occasion that I used it intense blissful sensations arouse in a very short time. Whenever I shifted my attention to the blissful sensations they would subside. Maybe I should stay with my m/o longer and build up those blissful feelings. But this is really interesting!?
...Today, during 3 of my sits, every time I used the sound my heart beat as my meditation object, intense, blissful sensations would arise in my head in about 10 to 20 seconds, without fail. It's not as pleasant a sensation as compared to the breath, but it works for me.
When I lived in San Francisco it was very noisy there, so I used to use simple foam hearing protection that was a cylinder of foam. To use it one just roles it between the index and another finger, then insert it into the ear canal before it swells back up. I found it better than most hearing protect. It is also less intrusive.
At that time I worked in a canning factory, where I had to wear hearing protect all day long. Almost all other hearing protection equipment would result in an ear infection for me, from habitual use, except these foam cylinders. They are very inexpensive, and they can also be used in conjunction with another hearing protection device for additional sound attenuation.
After I ramped up my meditation practice to 3 1.5 hour sessions per day I then spent a week camping along the US Mexican boarder in very remote areas. One such place was School House Canyon. There I found it so quiet that I could even hear my heart. I used the sound of my heart as a meditation object instead of the breath. That week it was very effective to get me well established in the charismatic sound. From then on the charismatic sound has been with me continuously.
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Jhananda:
At that time I worked in a canning factory, where I had to wear hearing protect all day long. Almost all other hearing protection equipment would result in an ear infection for me, from habitual use, except these foam cylinders. They are very inexpensive, and they can also be used in conjunction with another hearing protection device for additional sound attenuation.
I've tried several types of foam ear plugs, similar to the ones you describe, and some are better than others. I can wear my shooters ear protectors for one hour without any discomfort at all; the longest I've worn them was about 3 hours with some degree of discomfort. In my opinion, they're much more comfortable than earplugs, and I'm convinced they're more effective at reducing sound levels. They are good for completely eliminating or significantly reducing sounds like people next door talking, music, air conditioning, refridgerators and furnaces. They are less effective with cupboards banging, dogs barking, lawn mowers, weed wackers, and very low frequency sounds. And like you, I sometimes use them together with foam earplugs for additional attenuation. This is very effective, and especially so when my immediate neighbours are partying - I can't hear them at all.
Jhananda: When you become a Stream Winner, then the charisms (jhana-nimitta) become easy to come by. Since you find them easy now to find, then you must be a Stream Winner. The Stream is the charisms.
I'm not sure if I'm a Stream Winner? One has to eliminate the 1st three fetters: belief in a self, doubt, and attachment to rites and rituals.
As for belief in a self, intellectually I understand that there is no real self, we are just a composite of our ever changing aggregates.
As for doubt, sometimes I'm not sure what to believe regarding the teachings of the Buddha -- what if the Buddha and Ananda were deluded, and got it all wrong, and therefore it's all a big fairy tale, the Pali Canon is all nonsense; or maybe the suttas have been misrepresented. That's what goes on in my mind sometimes, that's what keeps me questioning everything. On the other hand, my gut intuition tells me that there's something here, some kind of universal, timeless, ancient truth, beautiful and full of awe. It is my quest to find out. It's the big adventure, maybe I'm Don Quixote's reincarnation. I am, however, especially recently, gaining faith and confidence in the eightfold path; it seems so beautifully logical.
As for rites and rituals, I've got that one nailed -- I put my statue of the Buddha in the closet a long time ago; and the sight of somebody doing 108 prostrations before a Buddha statue gives me a headache.
I've read somewhere in the suttas, if I recall correctly, that the four levels of attainment (Stream-enterer, Once-returner, Non-returner and Arahant) correlate directly to the first four levels of jhana. Is this the case?
Jhananda: There I found it so quiet that I could even hear my heart. I used the sound of my heart as a meditation object instead of the breath. That week it was very effective to get me well established in the charismatic sound. From then on the charismatic sound has been with me continuously.
Every time I use the heartbeat as my m/o blissful sensations arise. When this occurs I switch to the blissful sensations as my new m/o. But usually the blissful sensations stay around only for a couple of minutes until subsiding, then I go back to the heartbeat as my m/o. So, I keep going through this cycle over and over again. Its' like a balloon composed of bliss inflating and deflating in my head. Sometimes by letting go and placing my attention on the bliss, it keeps going for 5 to 10 minutes maximum. Sounds like I need to practice. I don't think I've attained Stream Enterer level yet.
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Jhananda, are you familiar with the case when one is with the breath for about let's say 20-30 minutes, and suddenly one thinks about sexual exciting thoughts, but is still with the breath and then a rush of piti invades the body and "shakes" you a little bit? (the trigger in this case is the sexual thoughts)
Should stuff like this be avoided?
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I've tried several types of foam ear plugs, similar to the ones you describe, and some are better than others. I can wear my shooters ear protectors for one hour without any discomfort at all; the longest I've worn them was about 3 hours with some degree of discomfort. In my opinion, they're much more comfortable than earplugs, and I'm convinced they're more effective at reducing sound levels. They are good for completely eliminating or significantly reducing sounds like people next door talking, music, air conditioning, refridgerators and furnaces. They are less effective with cupboards banging, dogs barking, lawn mowers, weed wackers, and very low frequency sounds. And like you, I sometimes use them together with foam earplugs for additional attenuation. This is very effective, and especially so when my immediate neighbours are partying - I can't hear them at all.
It is good that you found what works for you, so stick with, or make improvements in the future. When I want silence I go camping in the wilderness. That works for me.
I'm not sure if I'm a Stream Winner? One has to eliminate the 1st three fetters: belief in a self, doubt, and attachment to rites and rituals.
As for belief in a self, intellectually I understand that there is no real self, we are just a composite of our ever changing aggregates.
As for doubt, sometimes I'm not sure what to believe regarding the teachings of the Buddha -- what if the Buddha and Ananda were deluded, and got it all wrong, and therefore it's all a big fairy tale, the Pali Canon is all nonsense; or maybe the suttas have been misrepresented. That's what goes on in my mind sometimes, that's what keeps me questioning everything. On the other hand, my gut intuition tells me that there's something here, some kind of universal, timeless, ancient truth, beautiful and full of awe. It is my quest to find out. It's the big adventure, maybe I'm Don Quixote's reincarnation. I am, however, especially recently, gaining faith and confidence in the eightfold path; it seems so beautifully logical.
As for rites and rituals, I've got that one nailed -- I put my statue of the Buddha in the closet a long time ago; and the sight of somebody doing 108 prostrations before a Buddha statue gives me a headache.
I've read somewhere in the suttas, if I recall correctly, that the four levels of attainment (Stream-enterer, Once-returner, Non-returner and Arahant) correlate directly to the first four levels of jhana. Is this the case?
If you have found the bliss of the charisms (jhana-nimitta) and you know how to get back to them consistently, and you find some consolation in them, then you have found the stream, thus you are a stream winner. However it is true that the 4 noble beings, which we have discussed here before, correlate with a reduction, or elimination, of the fetters, and they do indeed correlate with the 4 jhanas. However, one experience of a jhana is not as transformative as living the lifestyle that consistently produces that jhana every day.
Every time I use the heartbeat as my m/o blissful sensations arise. When this occurs I switch to the blissful sensations as my new m/o. But usually the blissful sensations stay around only for a couple of minutes until subsiding, then I go back to the heartbeat as my m/o. So, I keep going through this cycle over and over again. Its' like a balloon composed of bliss inflating and deflating in my head. Sometimes by letting go and placing my attention on the bliss, it keeps going for 5 to 10 minutes maximum. Sounds like I need to practice. I don't think I've attained Stream Enterer level yet.
No matter what keep practicing, because liberation (vimokha) and enlightenment (nibanna) require a lifestyle that produces it, and sustains it.
Jhananda, are you familiar with the case when one is with the breath for about let's say 20-30 minutes, and suddenly one thinks about sexual exciting thoughts, but is still with the breath and then a rush of piti invades the body and "shakes" you a little bit? (the trigger in this case is the sexual thoughts)
Should stuff like this be avoided?
The hypersensitive phase tends to come after the 2nd jhana. It is characterized by a number of things. One of those things is the mind seems to get even less controlled, and one can start having out of control sexual fantasies etc.
There are a number of ways to look at this period of development.
1) The mind does not like that you are no longer paying attention to it, so it keeps increasing its inducements. The mind will go through all 7 deadly sins/10-fetters to get you to pay attention to it. If it is sexual fantasies, then it will give you them in spades, etc.
2) When we begin to still the mind, then the mind goes through a period of sloughing, like a snake sloughing its skin. This sloughing can seem to go on for ever, and it can even appear to get worse. It sloughs what we have been holding onto. When we truly tame the mind, then the sloughing period will be over, and we will be left with a still, tranquil mind.
Liberation and enlightenment just take perseverance.
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Often when I meditate I feel like a rocket blasting off into outer space trying to leave the pull of gravity, sometimes succeeding. As I begin to let go more and more deeply, and I'm not even following the breath, and I'm using letting go as my meditation object, often what happens is intense pressure builds up in my head accompanied by violent, involuntary, very deep in-breaths, followed by an out-breath that culminates in blissful feelings in my head. It's almost like an orgasm; or, as in the analogy of the rocket, it's like overcoming the pull of gravity. When this happens I place my attention on those blissful sensations. Usually the blissful sensations dissipate lasting at most ten minutes. I haven't yet managed to still the mind.
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That sounds like a very nice meditation, but if you have not stilled the mind, then it was the first jhana. And, just think. It only gets better the deeper you go.
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Michel's Daily Practice:
I try to maintain a strict discipline in my practice throughout the day. I have to be my own drill sergeant. I welcome any suggestions on how I could improve my practice.
I am a hardcore recluse. I'm retired, and I am celibate with few responsibilities.
The following is how I practice each day, 24/7:
7:00am - I start my day, and wash up
7:20am - 1st meditation sitting
8:20am - Breakfast: oatmeal, 1 apple, 1 square dark chocolate, 1 cup of black tea, straight.
8:40am - On computer: check email, read news, check GWV forum
9:15am - Studying, reading, and reflection
11:00am - 2nd meditation sitting
12:00pm - Lunch: 1egg sliced, with mayo, on 1 slice of 12 grain bread, 1 orange, 1 cup of tea
12:15pm - Studying, reading, and reflection
1:30pm - 2:00pm - 3rd meditation sitting
3:00pm - Studying, reading, and reflection
5:00pm - 4th & final meditation sitting (I have difficulty meditating when I'm tired later in the day.)
6:00pm - Supper: chicken breast strips with mixed vegetables
6:20pm - Check GWV forum & post, or respond to posts. Evaluate my practice to make sure I'm practicing the Eightfold Path correctly. Relax and do light reading on the web, watch YouTube videos germane to the practice.
10:00pm - Bedtime
Other:
For exercise, every hour throughout the day, I walk 10 laps at a brisk pace around the main floor of my house. I do around 2 kilometres (1.2 miles) each day. Often I will do Tai Chi style, Jhana, walking meditation. At all times I try to think only when I have to, maintaining present moment awareness in everything I do.
Throughout the day, I investigate the various phenomena of my own personal experience.
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That sounds like an excellent regimen, Michel. If the whole world did that, then there would be no wars, no crime. I might suggest that you see what happens when you avoid caffeine, which is in black tea. If you want to experiment, then it may take at least a month to withdraw from caffeine.
The reason why I suggest that you try withdrawing from caffeine, is I found it to be a cerebral stimulant, which means it can make it difficult to still the mind. You will find; however, that once you have mastered the stilling of the mind, then you can enjoy your favorite caffeine drink once again, but in moderation.
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I might suggest that you see what happens when you avoid caffeine, which is in black tea. If you want to experiment, then it may take at least a month to withdraw from caffeine.
The reason why I suggest that you try withdrawing from caffeine, is I found it to be a cerebral stimulant, which means it can make it difficult to still the mind. You will find; however, that once you have mastered the stilling of the mind, then you can enjoy your favorite caffeine drink once again, but in moderation.
I'm going cold turkey. So, I threw out all my tea, and I now drink water instead. Thank-you for pointing this out.
I find meditating before going to bed difficult because I'm tired and restless, and I can't seem to establish mindfulness. Is this a common problem?
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I'm going cold turkey. So, I threw out all my tea, and I now drink water instead. Thank-you for pointing this out.
You may find that you have an occasional headache, when kicking the caffeine habit, this is why aspirin commonly has caffeine added to it, because almost everyone is strung out on the drug so badly that if they miss one of their regular caffeine doses, then they can develop a headache. This means most headaches that most people experience are due to caffeine withdrawal (http://www.energyfiend.com/caffeine-withdrawal-symptoms-top-ten).
I find meditating before going to bed difficult because I'm tired and restless, and I can't seem to establish mindfulness. Is this a common problem?
Yes, it is common for a non-contemplative to find it difficult to meditate before bed. However, meditating before sleep is one of the best ways to cultivate access to the immaterial domains, through lucid dreaming and the OOBE.
So, you can easily develop your skill of meditating before sleep by simply going through the practice mechanically. What I mean by this, is say you have a formal meditation place, then go there, and set yourself up to meditation just before bed. Meditate there for as long as you feel it works for you, that could be as little as five minutes.
Going through the effort to meditate before bed on a daily basis will develop in you the skill to practice meditation late into the night, which is more useful than sleep, and can result in profound religious experiences. It is like doing scales when one is learning a musical instrument. We just have to show up regularly to be there when the religious experiences happen, and have facility with our "instrument" to know how to "play" it when the "music" starts.
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Thanks for your advice on withdrawing from tea. I should be alright. I wasn't much of a tea drinker anyways.
Jhananda: Yes, it is common for a non-contemplative to find it difficult to meditate before bed. However, meditating before sleep is one of the best ways to cultivate access to the immaterial domains, through lucid dreaming and the OOBE.
I'll make it part of my practice to meditate before bedtime.
Should one meditate, while lying in bed, waiting to fall asleep?
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Should one meditate, while lying in bed, waiting to fall asleep?
For those who are intent upon leading a disciplined, rigorous, self-aware contemplative life, and wish to cultivate all 8 stages of the religious experience (samadhi), then after a prolonged meditation sit prior to bed, then one will lie in bed meditating until sleep occurs. This is how I have practiced for more than 40 years, and it worked for me, so I see no reason why it would not work for others.
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Jhananda:
So, please friends, do report and discuss your religious experience. If nothing else, I find it comforting to read reports of the religious experience. It helps me to feel comforted that others are doing what is necessary to pursue the only thing of real value in life.
I have nothing new to report about my meditation experiences. Haven't been able to still my mind. It's a hard slog for me. Goods days, bad days. I maybe one of those who take years to get anywhere. But overall I think I'm learning, my spirits are still up - and I haven't given up. I'm studying various subjects, and practicing the N8P.
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I have nothing new to report about my meditation experiences. Haven't been able to still my mind. It's a hard slog for me. Goods days, bad days. I maybe one of those who take years to get anywhere. But overall I think I'm learning, my spirits are still up - and I haven't given up.
I have a method when I was just starting out meditation. In order to still my mind, not only do I do meditation but I use whatever free time by reciting a mantra internally all day to focus and keep out all unwanted thoughts. It works for me and I think it would work for anyone. It is good that you are not giving up and I am glad that you have such determination. Keep it up. ;D
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I have a method when I was just starting out meditation. In order to still my mind, not only do I do meditation but I use whatever free time by reciting a mantra internally all day to focus and keep out all unwanted thoughts. It works for me and I think it would work for anyone...
Hello Sam. Thank-you very much for pointing this out. This is really good practical advise! As a result of your suggestion, I have been experimenting with using a mantra both in meditation and in my daily practice outside of meditation. A mantra helps to avoid useless thoughts while keeping the mind focused and still. Today I was speaking with my mother, who is a master of small talk, and I used a mantra while listening to her. Focusing partially on the mantra while listening to her, instead of the impatient thoughts and irritation that usually arise, made the conversation bearable.
PS - I've very much enjoyed reading your health blog.
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I am experiencing new sensations during my meditations: Whereas usually in my meditations I have felt strong energies and bliss swirling about and confined to my head, now, in addition to what I've been experiencing in the head, I'm experiencing sensations throughout the entire body. There are mild burning sensations in the forearms, and back of hands, as well as burning sensations inside my nostrils. Often there are tingling sensations in forehead, crown, back of hands, and shoulders. Overall mild feelings of very pleasant bliss throughout the body. And there are sensations of heat throughout the entire body with faint perspiration. The burning sensations continue after the meditation as well. I hope I don't catch on fire?
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Congratulations, Michel, you are a stream-winner. Now your job, as a contemplative who wishes to be a mystic, is to get there every day, several times a day, and to maintain all of those sensations within your awareness throughout the day.
Just a note: the Pali term, jhana is derived from the Pali term to burn.
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This does sound like significant progress, Michel. The way you describe these "burning" sensations was a bit concerning at first. And I'm also not familiar with nostril "burning". However, jhana does mean "to burn" as Jhananda reminded us. And I can certainly see how the sensations could be interpreted as a burning, especially if the experience is paired with anxiety or trauma response, as I will explain.
The sweating may be an anxiety response. When I first began accessing a jhana, I believe it was my "fight or flight" or anxiety response would kick in, and I would begin to perspire. To the best of my knowledge, this has happened in the first 5-10 experiences of each stage of samadhi. But eventually I got accustomed to that level of charismatic activity, and now I only have anxiety response for intense kundalini and 4th samadhi and above (which I still have less than 5-10 experiences with.)
So my preliminary conclusion is that the sweating will go away as you grow accustomed to the increase in charismatic activity :) Can you tell us what you perhaps did differently this time, or what you might attribute to the new development?
I must say that congratulations are in order, Michel :) I celebrate your perseverance!
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The sweating may be an anxiety response...
So my preliminary conclusion is that the sweating will go away as you grow accustomed to the increase in charismatic activity :) Can you tell us what you perhaps did differently this time, or what you might attribute to the new development?
I must say that congratulations are in order, Michel :) I celebrate your perseverance!
Thank-you Jhanon, and Jhananda.
There is no anxiety at all, none, just heat. It's as if the temperature increased a couple degrees in the room.
What I did differently was I placed my attention on the subtle sensations of bliss that arose from my upper body instead of focusing on the sensations going on in my head.
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Well bravo on two accounts. If you're not experiencing any fight-or-flight, I think that's pretty significant.
Looks like we can add another case history to the "watch the charisms in your hands, feet, chakras" meditation method group. Was it tingling, or euphoria, or warmth/heat that you settled on for your charismatic object?
I was at the monastery on a retreat just before I found the GWV and began to know what I was doing, and I was just brushing 1st jhana here and there when I asked a monk about their experiences. He said his first few experiences involved a lot of heat, and so did mine. I also know that aglorincz says that spiritual development results in friction-causing heat.
Randomness. I hope this is an encouraging development for you.
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...Was it tingling, or euphoria, or warmth/heat that you settled on for your charismatic object?
It was the bliss that I used as charismatic object. But I've got a lot of experimenting to do before I nail it.
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The sweating may be an anxiety response. When I first began accessing a jhana, I believe it was my "fight or flight" or anxiety response would kick in, and I would begin to perspire. To the best of my knowledge, this has happened in the first 5-10 experiences of each stage of samadhi. But eventually I got accustomed to that level of charismatic activity, and now I only have anxiety response for intense kundalini and 4th samadhi and above (which I still have less than 5-10 experiences with.)
This matches my experience. For a few months it felt like my "flight or flight" was on 24-7. It was something I said I would warn others about if they experienced the same and felt worried. I certainly still find myself getting warm in meditation, as if I were a heating pad on low, but it is not as intense as when I first started, and it is not every time. The fear I feel about "intense kundalini" is certainly something I cannot wait to get over.
Michel I am very very happy to see you have found blissful sensations in meditation. I hope things keep progressing well for you :).
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Michel I am very very happy to see you have found blissful sensations in meditation. I hope things keep progressing well for you :).
Thank you, rougeleader, for your kind thoughts.
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The sweating may be an anxiety response. When I first began accessing a jhana, I believe it was my "fight or flight" or anxiety response would kick in, and I would begin to perspire. To the best of my knowledge, this has happened in the first 5-10 experiences of each stage of samadhi. But eventually I got accustomed to that level of charismatic activity, and now I only have anxiety response for intense kundalini and 4th samadhi and above (which I still have less than 5-10 experiences with.)
This matches my experience. For a few months it felt like my "flight or flight" was on 24-7. It was something I said I would warn others about if they experienced the same and felt worried. I certainly still find myself getting warm in meditation, as if I were a heating pad on low, but it is not as intense as when I first started, and it is not every time. The fear I feel about "intense kundalini" is certainly something I cannot wait to get over.
Michel I am very very happy to see you have found blissful sensations in meditation. I hope things keep progressing well for you :).
I'm glad my observation resonated with you, Rougeleader. It's good to know you're no the only one. Definitely remind anyone else who has similar experience. It could potentially scare them away from samadhi. And that would be a tragedy.
And yeah, I also can't wait to get over the fear of intense kundalini. I keep missing out because of it. The only times I've experienced it is when there was very little build up, as it just took over fast--therefor only lasting a short time. At least mild kundalini isn't a problem, though.