Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Retreats => : Jhanananda February 01, 2014, 02:50:54 PM
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As long as I can transport myself there, I suspect I will be there.
I have had several requests for retreats this year, so this is where we will begin to plan one or more GWV retreats. Transportation continues to be an issue for me, so I can most reliably join those interested in a retreat within a 100 mile radius of Sedona, AZ. This gives us a remarkable range in elevation from about 1,000 feet above sea level to about 15,000 feet, with associated diversity of biological zones, and at least 4 national forests. All we have to do is agree upon where and when. So, please post your preferences here, and we will all discuss it as a community and come up with a plan that accommodates the majority.
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This is starting to look like my last year of leading retreats. I will be 62 in a year, and I plan to fully retire then. Plus, while the health of this body is improving, it may not improve enough to continue to put out as much effort as I have in the last 10 years. So, if you have been considering attending a GWV wilderness retreat, then this might be the summer to plan on making it. If you are planning on attending the retreat, then let us know as soon as you think you can attend one, so that we can make arrangements.
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As usual I will attend the retreats... This is a golden opportunity for those of you who have not spent time with Jeffrey - if you do not spend time him you miss a "I know not what" - words can only point to whatever; they are not whatever... I will fit into whatever dates are offered. Stu
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Thank-you Stu, I look forward to retreating with you again. How about somewhere on the mesa near the last place we were on retreat near Flag Staff? Spring water is near by, and so are grocery stores and the interstates are not far away either.
We will be above 7000feet (2100meters) of elevation. There is an airport not far away, if anyone wants to fly in, and there are airport shuttles that will take anyone who flies into Phoenix to Flag Staff, and we can pick you up there and take you out to the retreat site.
There is a camping limit of 2 weeks per month, so depending on how much work I have, and how many times people want, and how much time needed on retreat, we may have to move to one of 3 other national forests within a 50 mile radius.
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Jeffrey, Owing to jury duty I am not available until July... Stu
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Thanks for the update, Stu. Knowing your time limitations will help us narrow down a date.
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Adding to Stu's schedule, my rhythm also would flow with a retreat happening July and after,
My grandparents happen to reside in Phoenix area and be fortunate to have the opportunity to host and assist transporting those arriving.
Though may not be in the states till july
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Good to hear from you, everybodyishome, and thanks for the offer to help transport people. As the date gets closer, hopefully we will be able to nail down a firm date.
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We recently had an out of control forest fire here, which I believe may have burned through the area where we camped much of last year, so we may need to find another campsite; and the forest service has restricted campfires everywhere, as far as I know. So, it will be best if we wait to retreat until after the monsoons start, which might be early or late, which means the earliest that we can camp will be mid-to-late July.
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Jeffrey, Having completed my jury duty, I am more than ready to attend another retreat. It would be really nice to have a great photo of you, me and the other participants in the outfits we tend to wear - I really like your new outfit. You are on the scene and monsoon season would be really nice. The site near Payson was nice - anyplace above 7000 feet is good - Stu
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Thank-you, Stu, for giving us an update. I was thinking, since July was coming up, that an update was in order. I just heard yesterday that the road to Flag Staff from Sedona is open again, so I plan to drive to last summer's campsite there to see how is fared with the recent fire. If there are good, unburned campsites there, and Fry Park is open, then that would be my first choice, as it is close to 2 interstates, there is spring water close by, it is above 7,000 ft, and supermarket where we can get ice, are not far away, but far enough that we will not have them, and their traffic in our face.
Otherwise, the site we camped at first near Payson would be my second choice.
The monsoons have not started yet, so until they do the forest service will maintain their fire restriction. Also, with the Fourth of July weekend coming up, they will be on hyper vigilance, so I think it is best to wait until after the weekend of the 4th.
If anyone else is planning on joining us, then please let us know in advance.
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Yes,
Interested to attend and follow GWV retreat outfits and alike
Gear and supplies will be great opportunity if I may assist
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Thank-you, everybodyishome, for the offer of help, and the interest in attending the GWV summer wilderness retreat. Help is always appreciated, and so is expressing interest in attending one of our retreats.
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I am glad to hear about various encounters with the dark night of the soul. I have practiced being a contemplative mystic for 40 years, well that is what it is and now I have to sort out which which downturns, tangents, which events were deep or deeper dark nights. I am getting more and more agoraphobic- even so it would be great to have the dark night as a topic to be considered at the next retreat. I am available after July 17 and onward. So where do we stand on the next retreat? My most recent, and on going DNS, has lasted about 8 months. Stu Thanks to all who have contributed to this topic.
Good to read from you Stu. Yes, I agree, the spiritual crisis/dark night of the soul is an excellent topic for this summer's wilderness retreat. The monsoons started a few days ago, and the ran has been falling daily, so the forest should be quite moist. So, I plan to scout out possible campsites this week. Sometime after the 17th of July sounds good to me. I hope to camp near where we camped last year near Flag Staff, but it might be near the site we camped at near Payson. I will keep you all posted. Anyone interested in attending the GWV summer wilderness retreat should let us know of your intentions as soon as possible.
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The update is applicable,
Once you are more aware and inclined please write the dates may be plausible
I happen to be in New England and committed for employment for a couple weeks..
Thank you
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I would love to go, but cannot at present afford the travel costs. If anyone is passing through Washington state to go, please let me know.
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So, it sounds much more likely I will be able to attend as well :) I don't want to say anything concrete just yet--but I do want to say I am extremely pleased for the chance to get there.
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I hope you can make it to the retreat, Jhanon.
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Me, too. I've not had physical interactions with fellow samadhi mystics, since....well, never? I mean, I've spent time at a good monastery with people who had past mystical experiences, but weren't consistently experiencing them. Except one of the monks I was close with seemed to be. My camping plans for this year were also thwarted.
So, yes--I hope I can go, as well. Let us hope I don't talk so much, if I do.
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Me, too. I've not had physical interactions with fellow samadhi mystics, since....well, never?
This is why I believe it is so important to meet with the fellow mystics of the GWV, so that we can forge friendships, find like-minded people, and learn to meditate more deeply. The GWV retreats also server the function of answering the many questions that one has as one becomes a mystic, which no other meditation teacher or organization seems to be able to answer today.
I mean, I've spent time at a good monastery with people who had past mystical experiences, but weren't consistently experiencing them. Except one of the monks I was close with seemed to be.
I was a bit curios about your retreat at Watt Meta. Why do you think the monks at Watt Meta had some mystical experiences, but do not seem to have them now?
My camping plans for this year were also thwarted.
So, yes--I hope I can go, as well. Let us hope I don't talk so much, if I do.
It is my understanding that you have the support of a friend who values mystics within a Buddhist context, which I find refreshing. So, I am sorry to not have set a date, which has more to do with no one making a firm date. So, how about we decide that August will be the retreat month for this summer's GWV wilderness retreat?
People can show up when they can, and let us know where and when to pick you up. I expect that Stu might be good for the whole month, and so am I. I plan to drive into town every Wednesday to pickup water, mail, food, check-in with the forum and email, etc.; then return to camp Thursday. I can pick up people Thursdays when I return to camp. Therefore Sedona Thursdays is the best place to pick up people, and take them to the camp site, which will have to change every 2 weeks, because the forest service wants that.
Flying into Phoenix Sky Harbor, then taking the shuttle to Sedona, and getting off at the Walgreens in West Sedona, will make it easiest for me. Or, if you are driving, then we can tell you where the camp is, if you email us.
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Jeffrey, Yes... Stu P.S. Details to follow about when this body will appear in the Sedona area - probably most of August.
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Sounds good, Stu. Please keep us posted.
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For the last 2 mornings here I have been noticing smoke in the Oak Creek valley, so this morning I got onto the NSF website to see if there were any nearby forest fires (http://gacc.nifc.gov/swcc/predictive/intelligence/admin/google_maps/ics_209_incidents/ics_209_incidents.htm). It turns out there are 2 nearby our first campsite from last year, so I do not think camping above the Mugallon Rim above Payson will work for us.
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Jeffrey, Anywhere at 7,000 or above... What damage did the fire between Sedona and Flagstaff do.? Hopefully the area near Flagstaff is possible. But then you are the Arizona native and I am your southern NM operative. Stu
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Hi Stu, I have yet to explore the potential camping areas, as I have a lot still to do to prepare for the retreat. I will keep all posted as to further investigations.
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Hi Jhananda,
I think August sounds good. Now that I have a month, I have to make arrangements--and ensure that my family, medical, and schooling are taken care of in advance and won't suffer my absence. Thank you for all the details about the trip you provided. That really helps me prepare mentally, as I am not a fan of flying alone somewhere new to do something I've never really done before with people I've never met in real life. LOL! I am sensitive to anxieties this way--but I am hopeful all will work out. I will get back to you shortly with more specific date.
"I was a bit curios about your retreat at Watt Meta. Why do you think the monks at Watt Meta had some mystical experiences, but do not seem to have them now?"
This requires more specificity on my part. Out of the regular lay meditators who spoke with at length, there was one or two who had had some mystical experience, but it wasn't brought on by formal meditation. It was spontaneous, like my significant experience with reading The Power of Now while body scanning was. However, in the half-year I attended there, it appeared I had the most significant experience.
When I began making progress and attaining jhana (before I realized it), and just before I came across GWV, I began to more confidently express how I appeared to be finding success. I no longer went there once I established in samadhi regularly. But, just before moving, I did run into the lay meditator who coordinated all of our extra-curricular meditation sessions. He's a much older gentleman. I didn't have much time, but I quickly explained my experience and how I consistently attained it--in detail. However, it appeared there was a bit too much brain-washing from his endeavors in popular textbook and teachers who taught the "jhana doesn't matter" kind of doctrine. He seemed doubtful that what I had begun teaching them before i left was indeed proved successful. However, he didn't express this. He just didn't say much. He was genuinely happy for me, but I think it was just too much information, too fast. And I recognized he was, mentally, in the same conundrum as I was just a year ago. But, there wasn't as much independent fire as was with me when i was in that situation.
Now, out of the monks I could get coherent English out of, I could only confirm one of them to have significant experience with jhana. But I can't be certain, as it seemed there was a general aversion to anyone discussing jhana. When I first asked him about jhana, when he didn't know me yet, he told me he the most significant quality he regularly experienced was a deep peace. He could have said this because he didn't want to frighten me away, which I also throttle myself with new students.
Before I moved away, I finally returned to specifically speak with him. He told me he often sees a type of mandala in deeper experiences. I've not experienced such a thing. I explained my experience of deva's, and he expressed no aversion or surprise. However, I believe I recall him inferring that these experiences weren't "real", or suggesting I shouldn't take them too seriously as they are all "mind made." I felt I had no ground to disagree, but I also didn't adopt his words.
My memory is not very good, in general. But, it appeared that he had some attainment, but it was not specifically pursued or expressed due to the general monastic perspective of samadhi experiences.
He was intelligent, and it was difficult to know what his experience actually was. I do remember when I first began learning about the tactile charism, which at that time I referred to as the "breath body", and was before I encountered the GWV, that I explained to him my success with using the breath body as a meditation object. I also mentioned to him that my discussions with other meditators suggested they weren't aware of the breath body and it's efficacy as a meditation object. That same night, he taught it to the meditation group.
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Hi Jhananda,
I think August sounds good. Now that I have a month, I have to make arrangements--and ensure that my family, medical, and schooling are taken care of in advance and won't suffer my absence. Thank you for all the details about the trip you provided. That really helps me prepare mentally, as I am not a fan of flying alone somewhere new to do something I've never really done before with people I've never met in real life. LOL! I am sensitive to anxieties this way--but I am hopeful all will work out. I will get back to you shortly with more specific date.
Good, please do keep us posted.
Before I moved away, I finally returned to specifically speak with him. He told me he often sees a type of mandala in deeper experiences. I've not experienced such a thing. I explained my experience of deva's, and he expressed no aversion or surprise. However, I believe I recall him inferring that these experiences weren't "real", or suggesting I shouldn't take them too seriously as they are all "mind made." I felt I had no ground to disagree, but I also didn't adopt his words.
This was all pretty useful information you gave us, but no surprise for me that you basically go no guidance from a Buddhist monastery. The "mandala" in a Theravadan perspective is called a "kasina." It sounds like this monk's kasina might have been mind-made. We have found here to dismiss all of the charisms as "mind-made" does not lead to emancipation (vimokha).
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Currently I am experiencing problems with my right shoulder - enough it make it impossible to load a vehicle. Tomorrow I begin treatment - surely I will be advised to rest the shoulder for several days - assuming treatment is successful... I do not want to miss the retreat, but I will be there when possible. As I have mentioned before,i f you can go to a retreat with Jeffrey do so - otherwise you do not know what you are missing... Stu
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I've been trying schedule for the third week of August. I admit to some hesitance. Anxiety, nerves, I dunno. I have little vision fears of the retreat not going well at all, when I meditate lately. But I also acknowledge this may be Jhananda's last retreat.
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I have encountered some delays of my own, so there is no rush, Stu. Take time to heal. We will all get together for a retreat when it all comes together.
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Thank you for the update,
Joining in appreciation for a "delay", as I was not certain I will be able to appear in AZ in august for the retreat
Thank you for sharing your experiences, I have also the fortune of being welcomed at Watt Metta
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Is that the place with the clocks in the meditation room? LOL. I still laugh whenever I come into a meditation room with clocks that "tick, tock, tick, tock."
For me, it's like heading to sleep in a bedroom filled with in-use washers, dryers, and dishwashers :D
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Is that the place with the clocks in the meditation room? LOL. I still laugh whenever I come into a meditation room with clocks that "tick, tock, tick, tock."
For me, it's like heading to sleep in a bedroom filled with in-use washers, dryers, and dishwashers :D
Ha. Why on earth would they put a ticking clock in the meditation room? Is it some sort of a conspiracy by the monks to prevent one from attaining the jhanas?
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When you go into a meditation hall and you find a ticking clock, then know that you are in the presence of the clueless. So, it is time to turn around and find a better place to meditate. This is partly why we prefer wilderness retreats.
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A lot of priorities have had to be reorganized. I plan to head off on retreat in the next few days. I will begin scouting for a retreat site after that. After I have left it might be a few days before you hear from me again.
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Does that mean we have to hurry and make our travel arrangements? I'm sorry, I don't fully understand.
I haven't planned much for it yet, as I'm trying to get some time-sensitive high priorities taken care of--but I've been fatigued and sick for a few weeks.
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Thank-you, Jhanon, et al, for your interest in attending a retreat led by me. I unfortuenatley will have to cancel any plans for retreat with anyone at this time.
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I am acquainted enough with you to know not to question that further. I'm sorry to hear that, but my anxiety is relieved as well.
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Let us say for now that I need an extended solo retreat due to stresses beyond my control.
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Will there be a 2015 retreat?
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Hello Cal, due to threats from several people for whom I have reason to believe that they are murderers, and they have expressed a desire to kill me, the I can no longer state where I am going to be for my safety, and that of those with me. So, yes, there will be future retreats. Everyone attending will have to have had a long record of membership and participation in the GWV, and demonstrate attainment. So, all future retreats that I lead will have to be private.
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I think that is a wise choice, Jhananda. I had my own concerns with what would have been the 2014 retreat.