Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => Insight => : Alexander May 30, 2014, 01:50:06 PM
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One of the spiritual powers, and a very important one, is Vision of the Noble Ones.
What is this power? It is an ability to discern the four Noble Individuals from ordinary people. This includes (1) being able to intuit generally who is Noble; and (2) being able to discern specifically who is a streamwinner, once-returner, nonreturner, or arahant.
I would argue that this power is a necessity to make progress. This is because we must develop relationships with Noble Individuals, and study with them, to develop spiritually.
Because the spiritual life is for the most part invisible, having this vision implies you have a very refined critical reason, and an intuitive insight into the signs of attainment.
Finally, one argument about this vision is that it is impossible ever to see above one's own level.
Recently, I found a streamwinner who I thought was extraordinary, and who could immediately make the switch into being a once-returner. So, I began to develop a relationship with him. But, what he did not understand was that he was talking to someone who was at a very different stage than he was. He thought that he knew things and that I did not know anything. I was extremely patient: but, eventually, he became hostile. Even now, he remains unaware of the irony of his behavior. Could he not see because of my different level?
If you think about it, in a crowd of 100,000 people, who are nonreturners? Arahants? The latter are unbelievably rare. To have an immediate, personal relationship with one must be the result of fate. But, then, it is an unfortunate thing, to have had the opportunity of a relationship, but then to give it up or to be unaware of the person that was in front of you.
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This topic makes me think of a Biblical quote:
"They shall have eyes, but not see. They shall have ears, but not hear."
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And ironically, the name of my friend was Thomas.
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... This is because we must develop relationships with Noble Individuals, and study with them, to develop spiritually.
"This is the entire holy life, Ananda, that is, good friendship, good companionship,
good comradeship. When a bhikkhu has a good friend, a good
companion, a good comrade, it is to be expected that he will
develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path. And how,
Ananda, does a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develop and cultivate the Noble
Eightfold Path? Here, handa, a bhikkhu develops right view,
which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation,
maturing in release. He develops right intention . . . right speech
... right action ... right livelihood .. . right effort . .. right mindfulness
. . . right concentration, which is based upon seclusion,
dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way,
Ananda, that a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold
Path." SN 3:18
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"This is the entire holy life, Ananda, that is, good friendship, good companionship,
good comradeship. When a bhikkhu has a good friend, a good
companion, a good comrade, it is to be expected that he will
develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path. And how,
Ananda, does a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develop and cultivate the Noble
Eightfold Path? Here, handa, a bhikkhu develops right view,
which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation,
maturing in release. He develops right intention . . . right speech
... right action ... right livelihood .. . right effort . .. right mindfulness
. . . right concentration, which is based upon seclusion,
dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way,
Ananda, that a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold
Path." SN 3:18
An excellent quote. And St. Augustine:
"To talk and laugh and do kindness to one another; to read well-written books together; to make jokes together and then to talk seriously together." (Confessions IV 8)
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... And St. Augustine:
"To talk and laugh and do kindness to one another; to read well-written books together; to make jokes together and then to talk seriously together." (Confessions IV 8)
That's it, isn't it!? If only... People would truly flourish in such a community of individuals who love and care for each other. The Sangha, in our case, is but a dream of something to come. If not in this lifetime, then perhaps the next.
It's truly coincidental, aglorincz, that you raise the subject of Noble friendship and community, because for the last two days I was thinking how ideal it would be, and this morning I came across the sutta on friendship and the holy life, and finally I came across your post. Is that a triple coincidence or what?
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The isolation mystics feel makes this post both immediately relevant and mutually coincidental. The interesting thing about that text from the Buddha is he states that the "entire holy life" is spiritual friendship and then a few lines later states this is conducive to the 8fold path which is rooted in "seclusion." This forces the mystic into deciding the proper balance between isolation and community. I, for one, find myself needing more spiritual friendship. It would be great to have friends to share spiritual thoughts, feelings, and experiences with.
Ajahn Sona said that one of the most enjoyable things about being a monk was the spiritual fellowship within the Sangha. He stated that the fellow monks/mystics are genuinely concerned about each other's well-being and that this forms the bases of their daily conversation. Sounds like compassion and care from other contemplatives is a necessity for many on the Path. I don't see much hope for Sangha support these days apart from a few select monasteries. I am just not quite ready to be celibate and spend significant time chanting Pali.
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... This is because we must develop relationships with Noble Individuals, and study with them, to develop spiritually.
Thank-you, aglorincz for starting such a relevant thread. The Noble Individual, in Pali, is Arya Pugala. The spiritual friend is, in Pali, Kalianamita, which refers to loving kindness.
"This is the entire holy life, Ananda, that is, good friendship, good companionship,
good comradeship. When a bhikkhu has a good friend, a good
companion, a good comrade, it is to be expected that he will
develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path. And how,
Ananda, does a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develop and cultivate the Noble
Eightfold Path? Here, handa, a bhikkhu develops right view,
which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation,
maturing in release. He develops right intention . . . right speech
... right action ... right livelihood .. . right effort . .. right mindfulness
. . . right concentration, which is based upon seclusion,
dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way,
Ananda, that a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold
Path." SN 3:18
Thank-you, Michel, for posting such a relevant quote.
I don't see much hope for Sangha support these days apart from a few select monasteries. I am just not quite ready to be celibate and spend significant time chanting Pali.
Sadly I found no support whatsoever from the Buddha sangha, so I would not expect anyother genuine mystic to find it either. It is my goal to make this forum such a genuinely supportive sangha (community). It is up to each and everyone of you to behave as community members (sangha).
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Now let's look at the other side of the coin. The Buddha didn't need any sangha in his quest for enlightenment. He managed to attain liberation in large measure by his own efforts.
I came across this sutta today. It shows how totally autonomous the Buddha was, not needing anyone.
... Then Mara's daughters - Tanha, Arati, and Raga - approached
the Blessed One and stood to one side. Standing to one
side, Mara's daughter Tanha addressed the Blessed One in
verse:
"Is it because you are sunk in sorrow
That you meditate in the woods?
Because you have lost wealth or pine for it,
Or committed some crime in the village?
Why don't you make friends with people?
Why don't you form any intimate ties?"
[The Blessed One:]
"Having conquered the army of the pleasant and agreeable,
Meditating alone, I discovered bliss,
The attainment of the goal, the peace of the heart.
Therefore I don't make friends with people,
Nor will I form any intimate ties." SN 4:25
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Mara's daughters - Tanha, Arati, and Raga
tanhá: (lit. 'thirst'): 'craving', is the chief root of suffering
Arati: Boredom
rága: 'lust', 'greed', is a synonym of lobha (s. múla), tanhá (q.v.) and abhijjhá (s. kammapatha).
GWV dictionary (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/GWV_Dictionary/ebidx.htm)
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Mara's daughters - Tanha, Arati, and Raga
tanhá: (lit. 'thirst'): 'craving', is the chief root of suffering
Arati: Boredom
rága: 'lust', 'greed', is a synonym of lobha (s. múla), tanhá (q.v.) and abhijjhá (s. kammapatha).
GWV dictionary (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/GWV_Dictionary/ebidx.htm)
Appropriate names. Come to think of it, lust or greed and craving are rather boring. I would call these three sweethearts the "Unholy Trinity."
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Mara's daughters - Tanha, Arati, and Raga
tanhá: (lit. 'thirst'): 'craving', is the chief root of suffering
Arati: Boredom
rága: 'lust', 'greed', is a synonym of lobha (s. múla), tanhá (q.v.) and abhijjhá (s. kammapatha).
GWV dictionary (http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/GWV_Dictionary/ebidx.htm)
Appropriate names. Come to think of it, lust or greed and craving are rather boring. I would call these three sweethearts the "Unholy Trinity."
That is why Siddhartha Gautama called them "Mara's daughters." Mara is the Indic equivalent of the devil.
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That is why Siddhartha Gautama called them "Mara's daughters." Mara is the Indic equivalent of the devil.
Does Mara actually exist as a deva that resides in the heavens as the Pali Canon describes him? Or is he a symbolic personification of the evil taints of greed, hatred and delusion that reside in all unenlightened beings? Could we say that Mara is our sense of ego?
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Does Mara actually exist as a deva that resides in the heavens as the Pali Canon describes him? ...
I would also be interested in hearing you discuss the spiritual realm, Jhananda. In your video on the OOBE you said you would dedicate a whole video at some point to the topic, but never did.
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evil taints of greed, hatred and delusion that reside in all unenlightened beings? Could we say that Mara is our sense of ego?
In my experience of the hell-realms, there is no devil, in the Abrahamic sense. There are; however, over-lords/angles/devas who look after and protect the evil ones, more in a Shiva/Hindu conception.
I would also be interested in hearing you discuss the spiritual realm, Jhananda. In your video on the OOBE you said you would dedicate a whole video at some point to the topic, but never did.
One day soon I will create a video on the topic. I have a lengthy video in production on the topic of alternative fuels that needs to go up onto my YouTube channel next, then after it is posted a shamanic ritual with a poetry reading in the background will go up.
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I have to agree that I would like to hear more of your immaterial experiences. I've read and watched practically everything I can find on the internet from you, including your journals. And there is, to my mind, very little discussion of actual experiences. I have, thankfully, put together in mind a collection of comments and little snippets you've said.
Frankly, I don't understand why there isn't MORE discussion of immaterial experiences. I've only had one or two significant and illustrative ones, because soon after I learned how to get there, my responsibilities increased 10-fold. But they are up here in as much detail as I could muster.
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In part the reason why I have held back on details of my experiences on the immaterial domains is they are often so fantastic that it would not be fruitful to share them. My poetry is full of what you ask for. I will write more in the future.
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After my last comment, I considered that I don't share my immaterial experiences with anyone these days. Because it wouldn't do good. Instead, it would cause doubt, or other unfruitful effects.
So, I understand. And yes--I should buy your book now that I can afford it. Oh, now I'm really excited to read it'
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Alexander, I realized something just now when I read this. I CAN tell who is a Noble One and who isn't. In fact, let me tell you a short and interesting story that jumps at me most prominently.
I was going to a artistic competition with my partner, because she used to love participating, but couldn't any longer. So we went to see her sister. As we were walking up to the school (which is where it was held), a very interesting african american man met with us where two paths to the school meet. Instantly, I knew him. I don't know why, but as soon as I saw him I felt "This is a brother." I've never felt that before. Never. And I had no reason to even have it in my head. I never thought about an ability to discern noble ones or anything like that.
What's crazy, is he knew it, too. He never said it, and we barely talked for a minute, but I knew it, and I knew he knew it. Our eyes met, and we both smiled the biggest smile I've ever given a "stranger." And you know how I don't normally look humans in the face because of their thoughts and mind states, so this was significant.
As soon as my partner and I were seated, I said to her "I think that man is enlightened." (This is something I've never said about someone I've met in ordinary life.) And now, I even know the ones who don't know that they are Noble (or at least a proto-mystic). I attract them to me, or I can just tell. I don't know what's going on. I just thought that I was attracting more wholesome and skillful people because I had changed my outer life to reflect my mind. But, oh god, is it really the case that the only wholesome and skillful humans are the Noble Ones?
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Yes, that's very funny. Many of my friends end up being Noble Ones as well. Even without my doing anything, they will be attracted to me. However, they don't seem to understand why they like me.
One of my friends is a once-returner. He went through a profound personal transformation. He explained this to me in depth. He also has 1st jhana attainment. But, he has no idea that he is a once-returner, and he does not know what the jhanas are as well. Also, he does not recognize his transformation as having been overtly spiritual, either.
Your story about the African man sounds true. What I detect is often some combination of (1) a lack of ill will, (2) self-mastery, and (3) the still mind (strange to say but that is palpable). Also, behind the facade/role you two are playing there are two deeper selves that are there and that can see each other. That is the Vision of the Noble Ones.
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I was going to a artistic competition with my partner, because she used to love participating, but couldn't any longer. So we went to see her sister. As we were walking up to the school (which is where it was held), a very interesting african american man met with us where two paths to the school meet. Instantly, I knew him. I don't know why, but as soon as I saw him I felt "This is a brother." I've never felt that before. Never. And I had no reason to even have it in my head. I never thought about an ability to discern noble ones or anything like that.
What's crazy, is he knew it, too. He never said it, and we barely talked for a minute, but I knew it, and I knew he knew it. Our eyes met, and we both smiled the biggest smile I've ever given a "stranger." And you know how I don't normally look humans in the face because of their thoughts and mind states, so this was significant.
As soon as my partner and I were seated, I said to her "I think that man is enlightened." (This is something I've never said about someone I've met in ordinary life.) And now, I even know the ones who don't know that they are Noble (or at least a proto-mystic). I attract them to me, or I can just tell. I don't know what's going on. I just thought that I was attracting more wholesome and skillful people because I had changed my outer life to reflect my mind. But, oh god, is it really the case that the only wholesome and skillful humans are the Noble Ones?
I had a similar extraordinary experience, though not as profound as your encounter. One day when I was in a department store, some 2 years ago, I came across this striking man of African descent, perhaps in his thirties, who smiled at me with such an intensity of genuine love and warmth that I felt an energy of love swell up within me. I returned his smile with every last drop of love I had in me. We passed each other realizing we did not need to speak. For a good part of that day this feeling of love glowed within me. It was a beautiful experience. There was something very special about this man.