Fruit of the Contemplative Life
Fruit of the contemplative life: => General Discussion => : Michel November 27, 2014, 09:35:28 PM
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The Thirty-one Planes of Existence
Scattered throughout the suttas are references to as many as thirty-one distinct "planes" or "realms" of existence into which beings can be reborn during their long wandering through samsara. These range from the extraordinarily grim and painful hell realms all the way up to the most exquisitely refined and blissful heaven realms. Existence in every realm is temporary; in Buddhist cosmology there is no eternal heaven or hell. Beings are born into a particular realm according to their past kamma. When they pass away, they take rebirth once again elsewhere according to the quality of their kamma: wholesome actions bring about a favorable rebirth, while unwholesome actions lead to an unfavorable one. And so the wearisome cycle continues.
The realms of existence are customarily divided into three distinct "worlds" (loka), listed here in descending order of refinement:
The Immaterial World (arupa-loka). Consists of four realms that are accessible to those who pass away while meditating in the formless jhanas.
The Fine-Material World (rupa-loka). Consists of sixteen realms whose inhabitants (the devas) experience extremely refined degrees of mental pleasure. These realms are accessible to those who have attained at least some level of jhana and who have thereby managed to (temporarily) suppress hatred and ill-will. They are said to possess extremely refined bodies of pure light. The highest of these realms, the Pure Abodes, are accessible only to those who have attained to "non-returning," the third stage of Awakening. The Fine-Material World and the Immaterial World together constitute the "heavens" (sagga).
The Sensuous World (kama-loka). Consists of eleven realms in which experience — both pleasurable and not — is dominated by the five senses. Seven of these realms are favorable destinations, and include our own human realm as well as several realms occupied by devas. The lowest realms are the four "bad" destinations, which include the animal and hell realms.
The information on this page was assembled from a variety of sources. In the interests of economizing space I have not attributed each fact to its respective source...
See chart here (scroll down): http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html
Well, Jhananda. I've always wondered about the realms of Samsara. This list is typical of Theravadan teachings which is supposedly based on the suttas. Do you agree with this description?
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Well, Jhananda. I've always wondered about the realms of Samsara. This list is typical of Theravadan teachings which is supposedly based on the suttas. Do you agree with this description?
The realms of existence are customarily divided into three distinct "worlds" (loka), listed here in descending order of refinement:
The Immaterial World (arupa-loka). Consists of four realms that are accessible to those who pass away while meditating in the formless jhanas.
loca is better translated as "domain of existence," or "dimension." However, I do agree that they are accessed through the 4 immaterial attainments (not arupa jhana, but ayatana-samadhi).
The Fine-Material World (rupa-loka). Consists of sixteen realms whose inhabitants (the devas) experience extremely refined degrees of "bliss" not "pleasure."
These realms are accessible to those who have attained at least some level of jhana and who have thereby managed to (relatively) dismantle the fetters. They are said to possess extremely refined bodies of pure light.
The highest of these realms, the Pure Abodes, are accessible only to those who have attained to "non-returning," the third stage of Awakening. The Fine-Material World and the Immaterial World together constitute the "heavens" (sagga).
The Sensuous World (kama-loka). Consists of eleven realms in which experience — both pleasurable and not — is dominated by the five senses. Seven of these realms are favorable destinations, and include our own human realm as well as several realms occupied by devas. The lowest realms are the four "bad" destinations, which include the hell realms. Leave the animals out, because humans are clearly below animals.
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The Immaterial World (arupa-loka). Consists of four realms that are accessible to those who pass away while meditating in the formless jhanas.
loca is better translated as "domain of existence," or "dimension."
I suppose one should die in a wholesome jhana state in order to ensure a good rebirth? Is it possible for, let's say, a none-returner to die in a state of anger and therefore acquire a less favourable rebirth than if they died in a more wholesome state?
However, I do agree that they are accessed through the 4 immaterial attainments (not arupa jhana, but ayatana-samadhi).
What does the term "ayatana-samadhi" mean?
The Sensuous World (kama-loka). Consists of eleven realms in which experience — both pleasurable and not — is dominated by the five senses. Seven of these realms are favorable destinations, and include our own human realm as well as several realms occupied by devas. The lowest realms are the four "bad" destinations, which include the hell realms. Leave the animals out, because humans are clearly below animals.
You're not a big fan of humans these days. Most of us crazy humans seem to be consumed by the states of greed, hatred and delusion; and we're rapidly destroying the world, and, again, we find ourselves entering into a new cold war which could lead to total annihilation. But some humans have the potential to ascend to higher levels of being.
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I suppose one should die in a wholesome jhana state in order to ensure a good rebirth?
I believe that is precisely what is behind DN-16.
Is it possible for, let's say, a none-returner to die in a state of anger and therefore acquire a less favourable rebirth than if they died in a more wholesome state?
One who is well practiced in reduction of the fetters, and attainment of jhana, will die in a wholesome state traversing the various stages of the religious experience to the deepest level they are capably of going.
What does the term "ayatana-samadhi" mean?
The proof of the corruption of the Buddha dhamma, is nowhere in the suttas is the term 'arupa-jhana' used. Instead the immaterial attainments have the suffix 'ayatana.' And, since all 8 stages of the religious experience are called 'samadhi' in the suttas, then I believe it is more reasonable to define the upper 4 stages as "ayatana-samadhi" than to refer to them erroneously as 'arupa-jhana.'
You're not a big fan of humans these days. Most of us crazy humans seem to be consumed by the states of greed, hatred and delusion; and we're rapidly destroying the world, and, again, we find ourselves entering into a new cold war which could lead to total annihilation. But some humans have the potential to ascend to higher levels of being.
You have pointed out the reasons why I believe humans have proven that they are below animals, because no animal would make a mess of the world, like humans have.
Yes, it is obviously possible for humans to become enlightened; however, the human record shows that few humans become enlightened, and those who do are generally marginalized.
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Thank you, Michel, for addressing this. And Jhananda, for providing answers. I've been referencing the planes chart since the beginning of my meditation practice. I find it helps orientate the newcomer.
Regarding Jhananda's comment that a dying mystic will traverse the stages of samadhi they are capable of in ordinary life--taking rebirth to the highest level they can; please tolerate my using myself as an example to ascertain deeper understanding of that.
I have reached the 5th samadhi a few times. Form realms of bliss. However, a samadhi experience beyond the 5th I have once experienced. At the peak, I can recall only absolutely pure and unimaginable ecstasy. It sounds like you are saying that is where I would go if I died today.
Or should I take it you mean that, for example, upon death I will end up in the highest plane I most often accessed just before death? Which at this point would be a form realm of bliss. And not the formless ecstasy I've only once experienced.
Since coming to this forum, I've found a lot of encouragement to not rely on this--but to attain arahantship for the ultimate security from suffering. And so when I have thoughts of where I will go if I die, I just try to go into the charisms deeper. Maybe I don't even understand enough to be asking any of these questions. But it would be good to know.
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When one consistently meditates to the depth of the 4th jhana, then over time one looses all of ones cravings, which means there are no fetters, which makes the one an arahat. At that point, when the arahat dies, then with no cravings, such a one ascends to the highest realms.
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When one consistently meditates to the depth of the 4th jhana, then over time one looses all of ones cravings, which means there are no fetters, which makes the one an arahat. At that point, when the arahat dies, then with no cravings, such a one ascends to the highest realms.
You WOULD respond that way. Hahahaha. I'm grateful I have the wisdom presently to see that there isn't a better response than that. If I were to "beat the dead horse", I would have missed the point. Intuitive insight is practically a requirement for your responses. Somehow you've responded to anyone and everyone, and yet I feel like you've responded directly to me--at least on an intuitive level. Thank you