Joy and the Three Marks of Existence

[jay.validus]

I spent some time living at a western meditation centre (Goenka) and that is where I learned of the three marks of existence.  Annica, Anatta, Dukha.  To paraphrase his english words, things are always changing, and when the ego creates desire for what is to be different then you suffer. 

I already knew this wisdom prior to the centre, but I applied it differently.  I was able to see the wisdom and truth of the moment, what my mind was creating, and still experience joy in my life.  During and after my stint at the centre, this had changed for a while, and I am still trying to shake off some baggage. 

The feeling and unspoken rule was that anytime you want something you are creating desire, and you should immediately focus on body sensations and the wisdom of impermanence-- things are in a constant state of flux.  You cannot have desire because you are creating ego and craving and causing suffering for yourself, and therefore you will never reach enlightenment.  One should accept what is and not what they would like it to be.

At first, I was just going to give their way of thinking a whirl, but I was in a situation that had me completely brainwashed and the negative aspects of the centre eventually weighted on my psyche.  Goenka was allowed to chant, but everyone was not (of course I chanted anyway, much to the chagrin of some people there)  Goenka outlined his entire theory of the practice, before and after every sit.  Guess what is was?  Annica, anatta, dukha.  He said annica three times a minute! You are made to feel that to want something is to create craving and then you are not enlightened.  The end result was I became very unhappy, but I just focused on bodily sensations and impermanence.

You will find real peace and harmony he would say, but I never was while doing his version of meditation, focusing on bodily sensations only and the wisdom of impermanence.  This creates a mind that is passive, and this can easily be abused by authority.  Someone else will make your decisions for you if you do not have the strength to do so.  This is what my experience taught me, and I am grateful to have gone through it.

I see nothing wrong with having joy part of your life.  Yes, I can be aware of impermanence, but I am the one living my life.  I am the one making my choices, not anyone else.  To want is not evil.  To desire does not mean you are not enlightened.  The key is a deep awareness of the self, which includes the wisdom of impermanence and your desires.  I know it is not my desires that are real, it is the idea of my desires.  I do not really know.  Yes, it is an illusion.  Yes, I will stay aware of the illusion.  But, I choose to keep joy in my life, and part of that involves my own desires, hopes, and dreams.  I choose to have ambition.  I choose to try and to go beyond myself.  This isn't accepting what is, but it is propelling youself forward.

[Jhanananda]

I spent some time living at a western meditation centre (Goenka) and that is where I learned of the three marks of existence.  Annica, Anatta, Dukha.  To paraphrase his english words, things are always changing, and when the ego creates desire for what is to be different then you suffer. 

I already knew this wisdom prior to the centre, but I applied it differently.  I was able to see the wisdom and truth of the moment, what my mind was creating, and still experience joy in my life.  During and after my stint at the centre, this had changed for a while, and I am still trying to shake off some baggage. 

The feeling and unspoken rule was that anytime you want something you are creating desire, and you should immediately focus on body sensations and the wisdom of impermanence-- things are in a constant state of flux.  You cannot have desire because you are creating ego and craving and causing suffering for yourself, and therefore you will never reach enlightenment.  One should accept what is and not what they would like it to be.

At first, I was just going to give their way of thinking a whirl, but I was in a situation that had me completely brainwashed and the negative aspects of the centre eventually weighted on my psyche.  Goenka was allowed to chant, but everyone was not (of course I chanted anyway, much to the chagrin of some people there)  Goenka outlined his entire theory of the practice, before and after every sit.  Guess what is was?  Annica, anatta, dukha.  He said annica three times a minute! You are made to feel that to want something is to create craving and then you are not enlightened.  The end result was I became very unhappy, but I just focused on bodily sensations and impermanence.

You will find real peace and harmony he would say, but I never was while doing his version of meditation, focusing on bodily sensations only and the wisdom of impermanence.  This creates a mind that is passive, and this can easily be abused by authority.  Someone else will make your decisions for you if you do not have the strength to do so.  This is what my experience taught me, and I am grateful to have gone through it.

The above typifies the Goenka experience.  One should keep in mind, when reviewing the SN Goenka version of the Buddha dhamma, that he and his teacher, U Bha Kin, rejected jhana.  The suttas are clear, jhana is the very definition of the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path, therefore anyone claiming to be a Buddhist, who rejects jhana, is by definition not following an eightfold path, therefore they are not Buddhists.

U Bha Kin and his students, such as SN Goenka, obsess over the body scanning method.  It is clearly described in the Kayagata-sati Sutta (MN 119) “Mindfulness of the Body”.  However, they never refer to that sutta.  It just so happens that the Kayagata-sati Sutta (MN 119) “Mindfulness of the Body” states that by following this method one would arrive at jhana. 

It is also worth pointing out here, that there are 4 key suttas that describe the practice of meditation in the Pali Canon.  They are: Maha-satipatthana Sutta (DN 22), “Larger Discourse on the Four Paths of Mindfulness”; Satipatthana Sutta (MN 10) “the Four Paths of Mindfulness”; Anapanasati Sutta (MN 118) “Mindfulness of the breath”; Kayagata-sati Sutta (MN 119) “Mindfulness of the Body”.

However, SN Goenka only refers to the 2 suttas that do not specifically use the term jhana.  They are: Satipatthana Sutta (MN 10) “the Four Paths of Mindfulness”; Anapanasati Sutta (MN 118) “Mindfulness of the breath”.

Clearly SN Goenka rejects jhana, therefore he is not following, or teaching, a Noble Eightfold Path, but just a 7-fold path.

I see nothing wrong with having joy part of your life.  Yes, I can be aware of impermanence, but I am the one living my life.  I am the one making my choices, not anyone else. 

Joy, is a key part of jhana.  If there is no joy, then there is no jhana, which means one is not following the Noble Eightfold Path.

To want is not evil.  To desire does not mean you are not enlightened. 

I would disagree here.

The key is a deep awareness of the self, which includes the wisdom of impermanence and your desires.  I know it is not my desires that are real, it is the idea of my desires. 

I  agree here.

I do not really know.  Yes, it is an illusion.  Yes, I will stay aware of the illusion.  But, I choose to keep joy in my life, and part of that involves my own desires, hopes, and dreams.  I choose to have ambition.  I choose to try and to go beyond myself.  This isn't accepting what is, but it is propelling youself forward.

It seems that you are confusing desire and ambition with joy.

I see no problem with following a career, whatever that might be, as long as it is right livelihood, which need not be monasticism; but requires the avoidance of harm to others, and enables one to lead a contemplative life.

One of the other confusions people have is they tend to confuse an aspiration for bliss, peace, joy and ecstasy of enlightenment with desire, or craving.  Aspiration is not desire, or craving or covetousness.  It is a longing to become whole, which confuses people who think they are Buddhists like: U Bha Kin and his students, such as SN Goenka.

[jay.validus]

It is also worth pointing out here, that there are 4 key suttas that describe the practice of meditation in the Pali Canon.  They are: Maha-satipatthana Sutta (DN 22), “Larger Discourse on the Four Paths of Mindfulness”; Satipatthana Sutta (MN 10) “the Four Paths of Mindfulness”; Anapanasati Sutta (MN 118) “Mindfulness of the breath”; Kayagata-sati Sutta (MN 119) “Mindfulness of the Body”.

Yeah, I agree.  I found when I read through these Suttas, even in the Satipatthana Sutta, he left out much of what was written for his own particular viewpoint.  As you have written from your own experience before, they preferred their own commentaries first to the Suttas or their own experiences.

It seems that you are confusing desire and ambition with joy.

I see no problem with following a career, whatever that might be, as long as it is right livelihood, which need not be monasticism; but requires the avoidance of harm to others, and enables one to lead a contemplative life.

One of the other confusions people have is they tend to confuse an aspiration for bliss, peace, joy and ecstasy of enlightenment with desire, or craving.  Aspiration is not desire, or craving or covetousness.  It is a longing to become whole, which confuses people who think they are Buddhists like: U Bha Kin and his students, such as SN Goenka.

I see what you what you are saying, and I will keep this in mind.  I don't think I am confusing desire with joy, and let me use an example to make my point clear.  I am referring to interests of mine -- fighting and parkour.  I want to do these things.  That is desire.  But, on a daily basis when I choose to train, at my kung fu class, a gym, or outside, I am not thinking about desire.  In fact, I have let go of it completely.  I am right there in the moment enjoying the process and the journey.  Even that I left go of and enjoy what is right in front of me as fact.

I agree that craving can overcome the psyche and feel pleasant, but it has a dry taste to it.  There is no depth to it.  There is a falseness I can see right past.  I train because I feel joy when I do it.  I feel joy when I am walking around work or superstore.  But, when someone asks me why I choose to pursue my interests, I respond, "Because I like it and I want to do it."  There is desire in that.  At some point it was part of the equation.  I have to acknowledge that or it will overcome me unconsciously in some other way.

I don't understand why this is bad.  Maybe it is not bad, and me putting it in someone's face asking for their approval is bad.  So, I apologize.  This is why I do not like Goenka.

[Jhanananda]

I have not problem with the study of martial arts.  I studied them for 10 years, and I see how they brought me to the contemplative life.  I believe Gandarloda would agree with me.