Author Topic: SN 12.70: Susima Sutta  (Read 2585 times)

bodhimind

  • vetted member
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 356
SN 12.70: Susima Sutta
« on: March 16, 2016, 01:40:14 AM »
Here is the reference: https://suttacentral.net/en/sn12.70

This sutta is quite strange, because the liberated Bhikksus claimed, “Whether or not you understand, friend Susīma, we are liberated by wisdom."

This was when Susima asked these Bhikksus about whether they had gained the few fruits of enlightenment such as knowledge of past lives, clairvoyance, clairaudience, manomaya, etc. The Bhikksus said they did not have them, but were still liberated by wisdom.

Then Susima went to the Buddha who explained it as thus: "First, Susīma, comes knowledge of the stability of the Dhamma, afterwards knowledge of Nibbāna."

Quote
“Seeing thus, Susīma, the instructed noble disciple experiences revulsion towards form, revulsion towards feeling, revulsion towards perception, revulsion towards volitional formations, revulsion towards consciousness. Experiencing revulsion, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion his mind is liberated. When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: ‘It’s liberated. ’ He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’

“Do you see, Susīma: ‘With birth as condition, aging-and-death comes to be’?”

“Yes, venerable sir.”

“Do you see, Susīma: ‘With existence as condition, birth’?… ‘With clinging as condition, existence’?… … ‘With craving as condition, clinging’?… ‘With feeling as condition, craving’?… ‘With contact as condition, feeling’?… ‘With the six sense bases as condition, contact’?… ‘With name-and-form as condition, the six sense bases’?… ‘With consciousness as condition, name-and-form’? … ‘With volitional formations as condition, consciousness’? … ‘With ignorance as condition, volitional formations come to be’?”

“Yes, venerable sir.”

“Do you see, Susīma: ‘With the cessation of birth comes cessation of aging-and-death’?”

“Yes, venerable sir.”

“Do you see, Susīma: ‘With the cessation of existence comes cessation of birth’?… ‘With the cessation of clinging comes cessation of existence’?… ‘With the cessation of ignorance comes cessation of volitional formations’?”

“Yes, venerable sir.”

“Knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you wield the various kinds of spiritual power, such that: having been one, you become many ... and exercise bodily mastery as far as the brahma world?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you, with the divine ear element, which is purified and surpasses the human, hear both kinds of sounds, the divine and human, those that are far as well as near?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you understand the minds of other beings and persons, having encompassed them with your own mind?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you recollect your manifold past abodes with their modes and details?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you, with the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human, see beings passing away and being reborn and understand how beings fare on in accordance with their kamma?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you dwell in those peaceful deliverances that transcend forms, the formless attainments, having touched them with the body?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Here now, Susīma: this answer and the nonattainment of those states, how could this be, Susīma?”

It seems that some might be able to be enlightened without these particular siddhis and simply by wisdom?

Wondering if GWV can explain this sutta and how we can be liberated by wisdom alone?

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: SN 12.70: Susima Sutta
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 02:50:33 AM »
I am inclined to recommend critical reading, especially when it comes to reading ancient religious literature, some of which is known to be pseudepigraphy.  I stick to, "we know a tree by its fruit."  If the superior fruit of attainment (maha-phala) is not present, then enlightenment and liberation are not present.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.