Author Topic: What if Stream Entry is not achieved in this lifetime?  (Read 2132 times)

Tad

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 327
What if Stream Entry is not achieved in this lifetime?
« on: March 05, 2021, 12:02:30 AM »
If a person makes significant spiritual progress in this lifetime but falls short of becoming a Sotapanna, how much of the progress remains in the mind as the person is reborn?

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: What if Stream Entry is not achieved in this lifetime?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2021, 12:23:13 PM »
How I interpret the suttas is the "stream" is the charisms (jhana-nimitta) that people here report from developing deep meditation.  So, if you are experiencing on a consistent basis the phenomena of deep meditation, then one has "won the stream."  To win the stream consistently one needs to develop sufficient depth in meditation to still the mind.  Stilling the mind requires letting go of one's craving for the material world sufficiently that the material world does not pose a constant distraction while one meditates.

Otherwise, if one has not arrived at depth in meditation, but has embraced the Noble Eightfold Path, and lives it to the point of maintaining the daily meditation practice, then the formula in the suttas is one has 8 more lifestimes left.

I hope that helps, and thank-you for posting your question.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.

Alexander

  • (Shivaswara)
  • vetted member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1123
Re: What if Stream Entry is not achieved in this lifetime?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2021, 08:28:18 PM »
Hello Tad and welcome.

Here are a couple of reads that might be interesting to you. Forgive the formatting of the chart, these forums don't copy tab-indents properly so I can't leave it as is in the quote without breaking it.

Quote
15. Discerning Attainment
Buddhism teaches that one often works toward liberation across many lives. One begins as a uninitiated layman, caught in the world's cycles of misery. As one learns the futility of this, however, one begins to turn inward, pursuing truth and higher reality. As one progresses, one passes through certain stages of development.



These stages have always fascinated me, and I have pondered them in many different ways over the years, for example in their relation to destiny.

People who attain one of the above stages are often called Noble Ones, and the root Sanskrit word is arya, meaning another name for them would be the Aryans.

Buddhists emphasize the importance of meeting and interacting with these people in one's life - as whatever they are doing, they have made progress, so they have figured out at least a few things right. These Noble Individuals are certainly great sources of support and camaraderie on the very difficult quest to enlightenment.

The question then arises, how do we see these people when they enter our lives? How does one discern the Noble Ones?

This is another question I have pondered for many years, and after doing so I consider the ability to see the Aryans to be a spiritual gift. So, just like in Christianity certain abilities are called spiritual gifts, I would label this same capacity to see the Noble Ones in that way, with the ability to do so being a kind of "blessing from above."

It is definitely a difficult art to master, as it relies heavily on intuitions from one's deeper nature. And those intuitions, while certainly the source of the highest truths in mystics, can also be misleading, so discernment is absolutely crucial to maintain.

Here are some of the schema I use when trying to assess people's progress in the spiritual life.

Streamwinners

These days this is the hardest one for me. I need to be very well acquainted with the person. Critical to me about streamwinners is:
1. They have a belief in "something more" than what can be seen or felt. This can be expressed in different ways. The person may have contradictory beliefs, but that does not compromise streamwinning.
2. Streamwinners are able to instill mystic knowledge with the importance it deserves.
3. Streamwinners can distinguish between mystic knowledge and ordinary knowledge.

I would say that those three elements are the most essential, and they all go hand in hand. The belief in something higher means they have become "seekers." What are they seeking exactly? They may not know, but they know something is out there worth acquiring - that Pearl of Great Price.

The fact that they "seek" means they are developing the faculty of discernment, which is crucial for a spiritual aspirant. Discernment lets one sort between mystic knowledge - knowledge that grants one progress toward liberation - and regular knowledge. Once this faculty becomes sufficiently strong, the streamwinner begins to amass this spiritual knowledge within himself.

Once-returner

Two major human fetters - sensuality and ill will - have been weakened. This person can never take human affairs seriously in the way an ordinary person can. They have already discovered something very great, like a great cosmic joke, though they may not understand what it is they've found out that's so clever.

While a streamwinner is a "seeker" in the absolute sense, a once-returner is already a "finder" in the relative sense.

Another thing I look for in once-returners is a major personal transformation. In my experience, this event seems to be universal. But, the person may not necessarily invest this event with particular significance. He could see it as something unique to him, and not as a part of his spiritual growth. Often, once-returners go through a kind of spiritual crisis, and come out on the other side with a very different view of themselves and the world.

Non-returner

These people are very rare in the world. But I would say this is the class I am most comfortable with identifying. They are very interesting people, because they have a great amount of gravity beneath the surface.

A non-returner has totally effaced the human fetters. This means he will not return to the human realm again. That is very profound.

Arahant

The supreme state of man spiritually. I look for the Dark Night of the Soul, profound emotional and intellectual refinement, and the religious experience. These are extraordinary men, and in a given century there may only be a few. They will be revealed to you if you achieve a suitable level of attainment and search for them. Note they will almost certainly not be public figures.

Quote
7. Comparing Models of the Afterlife
Death is the most important problem for human beings, so I thought I would reflect for a moment and compare the different models of the afterlife.

One remarkable thing is there is a remarkable consistency throughout human history about these beliefs. While there are times when one predominates over the others, there is always a diversity of opinions. In the medieval Catholic world there were thinkers who were Platonists, for instance; meaning there were some who were aware of reincarnation. Meanwhile, there were contemporaries of the Buddha who were annihilationists. I also think of the famous story of General Patton, who said he remembered a past life when he fought on the beaches of North Africa. We are clearly entering a new time of mass belief in annihilation, but it is also a time when a diversity of opinions is accepted.

Having examined all these beliefs I admit that on some level I agree with all of them; that is, I see the wisdom in each of them. But, each is a wisdom operating at a different level of understanding.

1. Annihilationism

This view says that we have only this one life and at death that is the end of it. This view is generally the materialistic perspective; that there is only the physical universe. This perspective believes consciousness is the product of the body and with the death of the body experience ends. It attributes experiences to accident; for example, if someone dies at a young age or if someone is born into a wealthy family, that is simply chance and it has nothing to do with merit or previous actions.

There are a couple philosophical issues with this perspective – the main one being that raised by Kant. Kant’s critique stated that all knowledge possessed by human beings was acquired through the five senses. Due to this our knowledge of the world was limited. For example, there could be a great deal of phenomena outside the senses but we could know nothing about it. So, Kant's conclusion was a famous "agnosticism" - we cannot say definitively what is true about the nonphysical one way or the other. With this perspective, annihilationism oversteps because it claims absolute knowledge when it actually has only the limited knowledge of the empirical senses available to it.

Having said that, the annihilationist view is quite reasonable to believe in and we find that many people subscribe to it. I have also had friends who grew up in oppressive religious backgrounds, and they take solace in this view as it is a kind of refuge for them. At the same time, I feel this is an unsatisfactory perspective when one confronts the problem of our humanity. If the goal of philosophy is to overcome the human condition - that is, the issues of suffering and death - then there is no solution here. One simply lives an unsatisfactory life and that is the end of it. There are no hidden or greater possibilities available to man.

2. Eternalism

Here we find that both Christians and Muslims share very similar views of the afterlife. Both of these religions say that human beings have this one life, and at death one goes on to either an eternity in heaven or hell.

Recently, I realized the remarkable lack of sources explaining these states. As an exercise one day, I set myself the goal of “today I will find every reference to the afterlife in the Bible.” If you have never done this I encourage you to try it as an experiment – as there is honestly a real lack of anything concrete describing either heaven or hell. The references are vague and open to a large amount of interpretation.

This is the same issue that Judaism has. If we use only the Old Testament as our source, and omit the works of the Kabbalists, the Jewish scriptures have very few explanations of what happens upon death. This is why Jews have many different views of the afterlife.

The New Testament is slightly better, with a few references from Jesus and Paul that are more concrete, but they are still not very clear. Jesus mentions a place where there is "wailing and the gnashing of teeth" and talks very occultly about a lack of people being wed in the afterlife. Paul has places where he refers to being "out of the body," but he himself is not sure of what the experience was.

A couple of questions one might ask here are “who should I listen to for knowledge about these things?” and “who was the source for 'eternalism'?”

If we look at history, my theory is that the original source for these ideas were the accounts of mystics and saints – those with direct experience of these states. However, over time "theologians" - those concerned with enforcing beliefs and increasing their power - hijacked those accounts and interpreted them in their own way. This has led to the teachings of "heaven" and "hell."

Thus, we find that the scriptural basis for these teachings is unclear, and that these ideas are incomplete.

3. Eternal Return

There are different terms used for this one – reincarnation, rebirth, and eternal recurrence. We see examples of it throughout history, most notably in Buddhism, Platonism, and Hinduism.

This view is generally rare in the West, but it is interesting to note that most of humanity believes in it. This is a fact many Westerners gloss over. We are so accustomed to the war between "annihilation" and "eternalism" that we forget that most of Asia does not subscribe to either.

This view says that there is something uniquely you - consciousness, awareness, spirit, or (at minimum) the summary of your actions - that gets reborn again and again over time. It does this either because it is fettered to form-based existence, because it is reaping the results of its actions (karma), or because it is learning something from each incarnation. This view believes that all actions have consequences, although sometimes the results of actions may take some time to be manifested.

One thing I find unique about this perspective is that it allows the former belief to be placed into it. With this view, "eternalism" is an incomplete perspective; it is just part of the picture. Buddhist cosmology presents many possible fates on death - not just heaven or hell. One might return as a human, animal, demon, ghost, or deva. Buddhism is also unique for stating that all these states are temporary. Nothing is eternal: existence goes in a great circle, life after life, until one returns to the Source - Nirvana.

Platonism

The teachings of Socrates and Plato have always existed in the West, although they have been confined mostly to the domain of academics. I wanted to examine these two here, as I feel they build upon some of the ideas for eternal recurrence.

The first idea of Platonism is that of the World of the Forms. When one reads the Platonic dialogues, Socrates reasons through one's experience in physical reality to try to get a sense of the Source from which it all derives from. In the Symposium, he gives the famous story of the lover: first, the lover enjoys the body; then, he begins to appreciate beauty in others in general; then, he begins to contemplate beauty as an abstract Idea in itself. This process leads eventually from form - the reality we all experience - to the formless - the origin of the world.

Plato's argument here is that the physical world is an emanation of the higher spiritual world, in which things can exist in a more perfect or refined state; and that then above this reality there exists a transcendent Source from which all ideas and potentialities derive.

We might connect this to Buddhism as this Source would be none other than the transcendent state of the arahants. By returning to this Source, which is not comprehensible, we are returning to a place beyond form and beyond limitation; we become nothing and we become all.

The other idea of Platonism I wanted to examine is that of the Lethe. The Lethe was the river of forgetfulness in Greek mythology, and we see it alluded to by Socrates when he explains the myth of Er.

In this myth, Er dies and finds himself in the afterlife. Socrates explains that when one dies and later chooses to be born again, one is supposed to drink from the Lethe. However, Er does not drink from the river and retains his memories, and later returns to his body, giving his account in the process.

Er's story reads much like a modern near-death experience, and he recounts much the same narrative of Buddhism. According to Er, people take on many different forms over time, and reap the results of their choices.

Socrates later explains his idea of anamnesis: the idea that all learning is actually a remembering - recalling knowledge that we had in the past or that already exists within us. This idea is quite interesting. As, if we have been transmigrating through time, then it is probable we have already learned everything at some point. And, if we are just an emanation from that originary Source, which is all and possesses all knowledge, then it is true that in this way it is also a process of remembering.

The issue with the Lethe is it seems to be self-defeating. As how is one supposed to be learning life after life if one forgets everything with each incarnation? It does allow the experience of novelty and innocence - but it complicates experience by erasing a memory of former actions, and thus one's ability to understand the causes of the consequences that later happen.

In the East, they sometimes refer to a siddhi by which a spiritual master can recall previous lives; and it seems that if one returns to the Source one is able to perceive all one's incarnations, in full, and also simultaneously.

Why we take on all these forms is hard to understand. The universe may be just a divine fecundity that can't help but manifest itself in all these ways.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 08:40:02 PM by Alexander »
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Tad

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 327
Re: What if Stream Entry is not achieved in this lifetime?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2021, 01:06:29 AM »
Jhanananda and Alexander,

thank you for your responses. I really enjoyed the description of awakening stages. It is probably the most practical one I've read.

Is my understanding correct that for stream entry jhana is not mandatory, but for higher attainments it is?

Alexander

  • (Shivaswara)
  • vetted member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1123
Re: What if Stream Entry is not achieved in this lifetime?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2021, 02:13:20 AM »
Well, to be clear of my own opinion, I am not a Buddhist; however, I certainly greatly admire the Buddha, just as I do Jesus, Socrates, Teresa of Avila, and the other great spiritual teachers of history. But, I try to reconcile Buddhism with the other traditions I have read over the years, including Christianity, Platonism, and Hinduism, trying to be as 'objective' as possible.

I think that the 4 stages of enlightenment described by the Buddha are likely accurate. And, we are lucky to have him explain them to us. If you want a strictly sutta-based / scriptural explanation via Buddhism, the text *is* clear it is based on the *fetters.* So, if you do not have the fetters of sensuality and ill will, then by *scriptural definition* you would be a nonreturner.

The rub is how to get there. That may involve some years of work on oneself, study, meditation, and perhaps spiritual attainment (as you say, perhaps including jhanas). But, it all sort of runs together...

Here is a post that this reminds me of, but it is on the Ouspensky esoteric tradition, comparing it to Buddhism. He was unique when I read him because he had his own "4 stages" of progress on the spiritual path.

Quote
Alexander wrote:
Several months ago I had an exchange with mapeli, where we explored our experiences with the Russian esotericists G. I. Gurdjieff and P. D. Ouspensky. In response to one of mapeli's comments, I said the following.

Quote
Gurdjieff and Ouspensky definitely overstate the pre-contemplative states, and do not mention any of the genuinely supernormal stuff like Jhanananda. But I understand what Gurdjieff's intentions were when he designed his school. The Gurdjieff work (its obtuseness included) is designed to take streamwinners, perfect them with knowledge of the "way out of the world," and then by the end hope to turn those streamwinners into once-returners. It is designed off of the old mystery schools, which functioned in the same way.

You, myself, Jhanananda (and most of the people who find their way to Jeff Brooks) are, or are set to become, nonreturners or arahants. For us we have already struggled through being the lower noble persons, and that is why our lives have been so fortunate in that everything we needed to make progress in the holy life was given to us directly or fatefully.

So, those esoteric schools affect more people than Jhanananda does, but it is focused on the long-term, two to four lifetimes' of progress, and on people who are just taking the first steps onto the 'way.' But Jhanananda, if we wanted to say that he had a destiny, is there to give guidance to people who are already very advanced spiritually. So he teaches a small number of people, but very generously. (Alexander)
I felt this covered a key theme. An esoteric school can get one through the first two stages of spiritual development; after that, the call to the inward life of the mystic is where further progress is to be found.

I had a couple more thoughts on this subject. First, I would like to take a passage from Ouspensky's book The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution.

Quote
In ordinary life we meet only these three categories of man. Each one of us and everyone we know is either no. 1, no. 2, or no. 3. There are higher categories of man, but men are not born already belonging to these higher categories. They are all born no. 1, no. 2, and no. 3, and can reach higher categories only through schools.

Man no. 4 is not born as such. He is a product of school culture. He differs from man no. 1, no. 2, and no. 3, by his knowledge of himself, by his understanding of his position, and, as it is expressed technically, by his having acquired a permanent center of gravity. This last means that the idea of acquiring unity, consciousness, permanent 'I,' and will—that is, the idea of his development—has already become for him more important than his other interests.

It must be added to the characteristics of man no. 4, that his functions and centers are more balanced, in a way in which they could not be balanced without work on himself, according to school principles and methods.
Man no. 5 is a man who has acquired unity and self-consciousness. He is different from ordinary man, because in him, one of the higher centers already works, and he has many functions and powers that ordinary man—that is, man no. 1, 2, and 3—does not possess.

Man no. 6 is a man who has acquired objective consciousness. Another higher center works in him. He possesses many more new faculties and powers, beyond the understanding of an ordinary man.

Man no. 7 is a man who has attained all that a man can attain. He has a permanent 'I' and free will. He can control all the states of consciousness in himself and he already cannot lose anything he has acquired. According to another description, he is immortal within the limits of the solar system. (The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution)

Were you able to find the analogue? He is explaining it in terms very foreign to Buddhism, but we can see the parallels.

Man 4 = streamwinner
Man 5 = once-returner
Man 6 = nonreturner
Man 7 = arahant

I just wanted to present this very different, very unique model as a way of thinking of these stages of growth, particularly if the reader is more familiar with Buddhism.

Quote
Miss J. You said you will tell us in what sense we can call this a school?

Mr. Ouspensky. I think I have answered it. Only a two-degree school is possible. Another school may be a school today and not a school tomorrow, as it happened with the Moscow school. Also long ago I explained that organization which is a school for one person is not a school for another. Much depends on personal attitude and personal work. (The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution)

"Only a two-degree school is possible." In other words, an esoteric school like that run by Ouspensky is focused on the first two levels of noble people. (1) It helps laypeople become streamwinners, then (2) guides them through the transformation into being once-returners.

Quote
Mrs. D. Would it be possible for everyone in a school to progress from No. 4 to No. 5, or only for a few?

Mr. Ouspensky. There is no limitation in principle. But you must understand that there is an enormous difference between No. 4 and No. 5. Man No. 4 is a man who has acquired a permanent center of gravity, but in everything else he is an ordinary man. Man No. 5 is very different. He already has unity, he has permanent 'I,' he has the third state of consciousness, i.e., self-consciousness. That means he is awake, he can always when he needs remember himself and higher emotional center works in him, and this gives him many powers.
Mrs. D. The idea then is to attempt to get to No. 5?

Mr. Ouspensky. First you must think of how to become man No. 4, otherwise it will be just fantasy. (The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution)

Here he states one must be a streamwinner to become a once-returner. Here, also, is a very unique description of what a once-returner is. Note for Ouspensky, a streamwinner is defined by his possessing a special kind of knowledge.

Quote
Mr. A. The chief immediate objectives you recommend are elimination of emotional life?

Mr. Ouspensky. No, quite different; emotional life is most important. The system speaks of elimination of negative emotions. Negative emotions are an intermediate state between sanity and insanity. A man whose center of gravity is in negative emotions cannot be called sane and cannot develop. He must become normal first.

Mr. A. Why I spoke of the elimination of emotional life was because you said that all our emotions are potentially negative.

Mr. Ouspensky. Yes, potentially, but it does not mean that they all become negative. Emotional center is the most important in us for our development. There are many things one can understand only with emotional center. Intellectual center is very limited, it cannot take us very far. The future belongs to the emotional center.

But it must be understood that negative emotions are not really in the emotional center. They are controlled by an artificial center, and this is our only chance of getting rid of them. If their center was real, and not artificial, there would be no chance of getting rid of them, because it would mean that they are useful, or may be useful, in some way. The artificial center is created by a long wrong work of the machine. There is nothing useful about it. Because of this, negative emotions can be eliminated; they do not serve any useful purpose.

Mrs. S. So none of us use the emotional center rightly?

Mr. Ouspensky. Why not?

Mrs. S. You said we have no positive emotions?

Mr. Ouspensky. Positive emotions are quite a different thing, they belong to the higher emotional center. Man. No. 5 has positive emotions. All our emotions can become negative, although, as I said, it does not mean every emotion will become negative. At the same time our emotions are not reliable so long as there is no control and so long as we are asleep. But they will become more and more reliable if we become less asleep and acquire more control. (The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution)

What does this remind us of? Notice how he talks about the developing of the emotions being key to becoming a once-returner. It sounds very much like the opening of the heart chakra. Also notice how he says that the once-returner has "positive emotions." That sounds very much like a reference to the joy of the first state of samadhi.
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Alexander

  • (Shivaswara)
  • vetted member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1123
Re: What if Stream Entry is not achieved in this lifetime?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2021, 02:14:06 AM »
Comparative religions article (1)

Quote
1. Comparing Models of the Spiritual Life
Having studied the works of many mystics over the years, I thought I would make an effort here to try to compare the different systems presented by each one. Even on a cursory glance, it is clear that all are referring to a universal path, though each presents the stages of development differently.

Evelyn Underhill

Let's start with Evelyn Underhill's model as presented in her work Mysticism. I have been reading from this book for many years, and it is indeed an impressive tome. Underhill is a clear authority on the Western mystical tradition, and certainly writes from the perspective of direct experience.

Underhill's model of the spiritual life is the following.

Quote
Awakening
Seeing the vanity of material life, the mystic begins the slow transformation of his values toward those of the spirit. This initial shift is the authentic meaning of the term "conversion" in Christian teaching.

Purgation
The shift from a materialistic focus to an inner focus is often difficult, and involves many personal turmoils and conflicts. In addition, the process of reorienting one's focus involves putting one's psyche in order, and addressing the dysfunctions of the mind.

Illumination
Following the completion of the purgative life, Underhill describes the beginning of the contemplative life. Here, one has gained control of one's faculties, and begins to experience true peace, joy, and rest. This stage is accompanied with the experiences of inner quiet and meditation.

Dark Night of the Soul
The advanced mystic, according to Underhill, eventually outgrows the state of quiet restfulness enjoyed in the state of illumination, and hungers for union. As the mystic reaches this state, their former consolations turn into new aridities and trials. All their progress turns to naught, like Job sitting on the ash heap, and the mystic is often left in a state of uncertainty and limbo for many years.

Union
The final stage of the mystic life, the rose, the state of completion and self-perfection. Underhill uses the Christian models of deification and the spiritual marriage to describe this state.

As part of her book, Underhill describes the stages of the contemplative life proper, which she sees as intrinsically tied to the above.

Quote
Recollection
The beginning stages of concentrating the mind, applying and sustaining the attention.

Quiet
The state in which the discursive mind is suspended, and the mystic resides in a state of quiet peacefulness.

Contemplation
The state of absorption in which the mystic is temporary elevated above himself.

Underhill's model is an attempted synthesis of the many models of the spiritual life presented throughout the Western tradition. Underhill herself remarks on the difficulty of coming to a coherent system, as different writers will often use the same word (let us take for example "contemplation") to describe separate experiences. Throughout her text, Underhill also alludes to many of the experiences of the mystics, examining topics such as ecstasy, vision, voices, automatic writing, and transport.

Eastern Christians

Let's turn now to the Eastern Christian tradition, where their model shares much in common with the above. For sources let us use the Philokalia, the Desert Fathers, and John Climacus.

Quote
Catharsis
The purification of the mind and emotions. Here, we find an analogue with the "purgation" stage above.

Theoria
The stage of "illumination" or "vision" of God. Here, we find the equivalent of the same stage above.

Theosis
Here the Greek fathers do not shy away from the language of literal "divinization" or "deification." Here would be the equivalent of "union" above. The Greek fathers were not averse to invoking the line, "God became man that man might become god."

The Eastern Christian tradition also often encompasses the following very interesting concepts, which I wanted to include here - comparing them to equivalents in other traditions where applicable.

Quote
Dispassion (apatheia), a state in which one is above slavery to the passions.

The heart (kardia), which is fascinating when one draws a comparison to the heart chakra in Eastern traditions.

Watchfulness (nepsis), which we find an analogue to in mindfulness (sati) in the East.

Discursive thought (dianoia), which is overcome in the practice of the contemplative life.
Discrimination (diakrisis), a faculty by which one discerns spiritual knowledge from worldly knowledge, discerns teachers, and obtains wisdom.

Stillness (hesychia), a state of quiet stillness.

Repentance (metanoia), the transformation of the mind and emotions to conformity with God.

Platonism

One thing I found in reading the Philokalia was the ready integration of Platonism into it. Socrates and Plato, while pre-Christian pagan philosophers, were seen as following a path in accord with the Christian one.

The Greek fathers use Plato's model of the psyche as presented in the Republic. In this text, Socrates explains the psyche as being composed of three faculties: (1) reason, (2) anger, and (3) passion. He then compares these three faculties to three types of people in the city-state: the (1) philosophers, (2) soldiers, and (3) craftsmen.

The Republic describes a "just" city-state, in which the philosophers rule with the aid of the soldiers, while the craftsmen work. Analogously, a "just" psyche has reason rule with the aid of anger, with the passions subject to them. The Kallipolis (beautiful city) is thus a parable for the psyche of the philosopher, the just man. To drive his point home, Plato then compares the Kallipolis to unjust city-states. For Plato, these would be the states of ordinary men who are not philosophers: "city-states" in which anger or the passions rule over the psyche; those consumed by greed, violence, delusion, or materialism.

The Greek fathers use this Platonic teaching in their description of the spiritual life, to explain the transformation that takes place in the state of purgation.

Teresa of Avila

Let's turn to Spain now, and one of the greatest texts of mysticism, Teresa of Avila's Inner Castle.

In this text, Teresa compares the soul of man to a castle (or mansion) with seven rooms, with each room representing a deepening state of union with God.

I was first acquainted with this text by Jeffrey Brooks, who alluded to the seven stages as possible corollaries with the eight stages of contemplation described in Buddhism. I thought this was an interesting idea at the time, although after reading Teresa's work years later I found her stages are not the same.

Here are the stages Teresa examines.

Quote
The First Mansion
The turn from worldliness to a life in the spirit; turning away from materialism and the passions toward the inner life.

The Second Mansion
The inner turmoil experienced by those who undergo this shift; the "war" in the psyche between the newly forming spiritual self and the recalcitrant physical self.

The Third Mansion
The next stage of the process of going within. Here, one begins slowly to recollect oneself; one develops the virtues; but one still does not receive spiritual consolations.

The Fourth Mansion
Here is where the contemplative life proper would be said to begin; self-arising joy and the prayer of quiet emerge. The discursive mind is subdued.

The Fifth Mansion
This mansion seems to equate with the state of "contemplation" or "absorption" described above.

The Sixth Mansion
Here, Teresa of Avila describes many of the trials experienced by those in the inner life, examines many of the phenomena that might be attributed to the supernatural (including voices and visions), and discusses the preparation for the spiritual marriage.

The Seventh Mansion
Here, Teresa of Avila describes what we would equate with the "unitive life," the "spiritual marriage" of the soul with God.

If we look at Teresa's mansions, they correlate with our stages of the mystic life above. Mansions one to three correspond with purgation; four to five with illumination; and six to seven with union.

One sympathy I have grown for Teresa's writing over the years is her inseparability of the personal life from the contemplative life. Teresa sees trials as an intrinsic part of one's growth toward the sacred. Since one is in the world, one can only understand adversities as tests sent by God to help in the path to perfection.

Patanjali

Let's turn to India, and to another great text of mystical literature, The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.

For those more familiar with Buddhism, Patanjali lays out a similar "eightfold path" which takes one through the quest for liberation. Patanjali has a unique, aphoristic style: The Yoga Sutras are terse, dense lines which one can take a long time to unpack. At the same time, the careful word choice and the multi-meaning nature of the words produce a sublime formulation of the quest for enlightenment.

Patanjali's stages are the following. Similar to the Greek above, I will give you the Sanskrit, then an English translation.

Quote
1. Yamas - Five ethical rules: ahimsa (nonviolence), satya (truthfulness), asteya (non-stealing), brahmacarya (chastity), and aparigraha (non-possessiveness).

2. Niyama - Five practices: shaucha (purity), santosha (contentment), tapas (austerity), svadhyaya (self-examination), and ishvarapranidhana (contemplation of God).

3. Asana - Posture; the physical exercises we associate with "Yoga" today in the West.

4. Pranayama - Breath control.

5. Pratyahara - Introversion; withdrawing the senses from external objects.

6. Dharana - Concentration; applying and sustaining the attention.

7. Dhyana - Meditation; similar to the state of quiet or the suppression of the discursive mind examined above.

8. Samadhi - The religious experience; similar to the state of absorption examined above.

Particular emphasis here might be given to the final three limbs of Patanjali: dharana, dhyana, and samadhi, which we see are equivalents of the stages described by Underhill earlier.
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Alexander

  • (Shivaswara)
  • vetted member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1123
Re: What if Stream Entry is not achieved in this lifetime?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2021, 02:14:31 AM »
Comparative religions article (2)

Quote
Buddhism

Let's turn to Buddhism now, and the description of the contemplative life as described by the jhanas.

For those unfamiliar, the Noble Eightfold Path of Buddhism reaches its completion in the seventh fold (sati), which we may translate as meditation or mindfulness, and the eighth fold (samadhi), which we may translate as the religious experience.

The Buddhist sutras describe meditators as traversing the four jhanas, which are the following. Similar to the above, below I will give you the Pali, followed by an English translation.

Quote
The First Jhana
Vitarka (applied attention), vicara (sustained attention), sukha (joy), piti (bliss), and ekagatta (one-pointedness).

The Second Jhana
Sukha (joy), piti (bliss), ekagatta (one-pointedness), passaddhi (tranquility), and avitakka ca aicara (no applied or sustained attention). *Tranquility may be understood as the stilling of the mind.

The Third Jhana
Sukha (joy), piti (bliss), ekagatta (one-pointedness), passaddhi (tranquility), and upekkha (equanimity). *Equanimity may be understood as a higher state of stillness. The charisms may arise in this state.

The Fourth Jhana
Piti (bliss), ekagatta (one-pointedness), passaddhi (tranquility), upekkha (equanimity), asukha ca adukkha (no pleasure and no pain). *No pleasure and no pain may be understood as referring to the state of absorption.

From here there is oftentimes a transitional state, with the same attributes of the fourth jhana accompanied by the new traits avedana (no sense experience) and viriya (energy).

This transitional state then shifts into what we in modern times would call the out-of-body experience or astral projection. Nirvana would then be the equivalent of having reached profound transformation after traversing all the higher states of the out-of-body experience.

Charismatic Phenomena

A topic which comes up in mystic literature from time to time, but is rarely examined in detail, is charismatic phenomena. We see these mentioned in passing in the writings of Christian mystics. In Oriental religions, these are sometimes called the "nimitta" (signs) of contemplatives.

Generally, the appearance of these signs is seen as evidence of progress in the spiritual life. Let us briefly look at five of these as an example, first using the non-secular model, then looking at them with the secular model.

Quote
The Inner Sound
Many mystics or meditators report hearing a strange, high frequently whistling sound which persists with them throughout the day. This charism is usually associated with the experience of stilling the mind. From a religious perspective, this sound could be a sign of one "tuning in" one's frequency to a closer alignment with the higher planes.

The Spiritual Heart
There are many examples in hagiography (art of the saints or holy people) of an enflamed, warm, or open heart; we also find references to a sensation in the heart, or to "inner heat," in mystic writings. From a religious perspective, this sensation represents progress: the opening of or the movement of energy through the "spiritual heart." The Eastern tradition would see this as the opening of the heart chakra.

Vibrations
Throughout mystic literature we see references to this; of waves of energy or vibrations flowing through the body. From a religious perspective, this experience would be associated with the sensation of the aura, the meridians, or the "holy wounds" of Christ. Feeling and deepening these vibrations is often associated with the out-of-body experience in modern literature - for example, in the writings of Bob Monroe.

Spiritual Tears
Often associated with the experience of the opening of the heart, unprovoked tears are a common theme in religious literature. Although presumably a universal experience of mystics, references to them seem to be exclusive to the Christian tradition. These tears are usually associated with personal development, metanoia, and the accessing of the higher emotions.

Voices
Mystic literature is often filled with references to an inner "voice" causing the first call to break from worldly life and begin the spiritual life: for example, in the call of St. Francis. Beyond this first call to action, mystics tend to describe these inner communications as a key part of their guidance on the path to freedom.

In Underhill’s Mysticism, she explores these voices in detail, saying the more physical these voices are the less reliable they are. If we read Socrates' trial, we can find a fascinating reference that we can read as an allusion to these types of voices. Socrates states his "daimonion" is quiet during the Apology, which he takes as an approval for his conduct throughout it.

It seems these voices are both the most reliable source of knowledge for the mystic while also being the most dubious. Mystics in the "unitive life" seem to rely on these voices almost exclusively for guidance, while those in the early stages of the inner life find it easy to conflate these communications with their own self-will.

Now let's look at some of these experiences from the secular model. With the secular perspective, these "signs" are not signs at all. They are merely peculiar sensations experienced due to a deepening of awareness or sensitivity that naturally happens for a mystic.

Quote
1. The first could be simply tinnitus, which the average person does not hear due to the distractions of the discursive mind.
2. The second could just be an anomalous heat in the chest – not a sign of anything in particular – as opposed to being a heat caused by alchemical changes induced by spiritual practice.
3. The vibrations could merely be the feeling of the nervous system, which is felt in a state of deep relaxation.
4. These tears could come with ordinary emotional maturation, which does not happen to the layman, though the mystics would associate them with opening the heart chakra.
5. These voices could be interpreted as an extension of the conscience felt by all, but the mystics would say these are intuitions from the higher self or guide.

Comparing the Different Models

In the past, I have read commenters describe the chief distinction in mystic writing as being between "theological" (using God-based language) and "non-theological" (using non-God based language), although as I have studied mysticism more over the years I have come to the conclusion that this difference is very superficial. In the Western and Hindu traditions, the mystics will simply refer to their relationship with God; while in the Buddhist tradition they will simply use impersonal language instead. But, the experiences and states they describe remain a constant throughout.

I believe a more important difference between mystic writers is the extent to which they emphasize "personal experience" compared to the "contemplative life." While both are necessary for spiritual growth, in particular mystics there is often a preference for the one over the other.

If you like, we might see it as a spectrum, with the one side preferring personal experience, and the other the contemplative life.

<--------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Personal experience                                  Contemplative life

The Buddhist writers in particular seem to have a great absence of descriptions of the personal trials undergone as one grows in the spirit - while in the West, figures like Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross describe them in abundance. These trials constitute what is called the spiritual crisis, and in my readings I have found this crisis to be essential to progress.

I will leave you with a final passage on this idea: a section from Underhill's book in which she describes an experience of Henry Suso. It states an extreme "trial" he underwent during his Dark Night of the Soul. I personally have a great sympathy for this tale, and feel his act of supernatural heroism testifies to his greatness more than any ecstasy could.

Quote
A malicious woman accused him [a Dominican friar] of being the father of her child, and succeeded for the time in entirely destroying his reputation. “And the scandal was all the greater ... because the rumor of that brother’s sanctity had spread so far.”

Poor Suso was utterly crushed by this calumny, “wounded to the depths of his heart.” “Lord, Lord!” he cried, “every day of my life I have worshipped Thy holy Name in many places, and have helped to cause it to be loved and honored by many men: and now Thou wouldst drag my name through the mud!”

When the scandal was at its height, a woman of the neighborhood came to him in secret; and offered to destroy the child which was the cause of this gossip, in order that the tale might be more quickly forgotten and his reputation restored. She said further that unless the baby were somehow disposed of, he would certainly be forced by public opinion to accept it, and provide for its upbringing.

Suso, writhing as he was under the contempt of the whole neighborhood, the apparent ruin of his career—knowing, too, that this slander of one of their leaders must gravely injure the reputation of the Friends of God—was able to meet the temptation with a noble expression of trust. “I have confidence in the God of Heaven, Who is rich, and Who has given me until now all that which was needful unto me. He will help me to keep, if need be, another beside myself.” And then he said to his temptress, “Go, fetch the little child that I may see it.”
And when he had the baby, he put it on his knees and looked at it: and the baby began to smile at him. And sighing deeply, he said, “Could I kill a pretty baby that smiled at me? No, no, I had rather suffer every trial that could come upon me!” And turning his face to the unfortunate little creature, he said to it, “Oh my poor, poor little one! Thou art but an unhappy orphan, for thy unnatural father hath denied thee, thy wicked mother would cast thee off, as one casts off a little dog that has ceased to please! The providence of God hath given thee to me, in order that I may be thy father. ... Thou shalt be my son, and the child of the good God; and as long as heaven gives me a mouthful, I shall share it with thee, for the greater glory of God ... my darling son!”

The story goes on: “And when the hard-hearted woman who had wished to kill the little one saw these tears, when she heard these tender words, she was greatly moved: and her heart was filled with pity, and she too began to weep and cry aloud. ... And he enjoined the woman to care for [the child] well at his expense.”

Small wonder that after this heroic act of charity Suso’s reputation went from bad to worse; that even his dearest friends forsook him, and he narrowly escaped expulsion from the religious life. His torments and miseries, his fears for the future, continued to grow until they at last came to their term in a sort of mental crisis.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 02:21:22 AM by Alexander »
https://alexanderlorincz.com/

"I saw all things gathered in one volume by love - what, in the universe, seemed separate, scattered." (Canto 33)

Jhanananda

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4629
    • Great Wesern Vehicle
Re: What if Stream Entry is not achieved in this lifetime?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2021, 12:51:04 PM »
Jhanananda and Alexander,

thank you for your responses. I really enjoyed the description of awakening stages. It is probably the most practical one I've read.

Is my understanding correct that for stream entry jhana is not mandatory, but for higher attainments it is?

A truism is every religion has its pretentious and hypocritical priesthood who work to subvert the enlightened teachings of their progenitor.  So, any effort to downplay the significance of jhana is surely evidence in Buddhism of corruption.  After all samadhi is the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path.  It is defined in numerous places throughout the Pali Canon in terms of jhana.  Therefore claiming jhana is optional is preaching a 7 fold path, which cannot be Buddhism, but a corruption.  However, as we find those who can consistently meditate to the level of jhana the fetters are reduced. So, we could remember "We know a tree by its fruit," and use the fetters as evidence of success or failure in leading the Noble Eightfold Path.
There is no progress without discipline.

If you want to post to this forum, then send me a PM.