Author Topic: agoraphobia  (Read 13801 times)

stugandolf

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agoraphobia
« on: March 10, 2012, 05:06:43 PM »
Perhaps this is not the venue for the following:  I have experienced agoraphobia fairly often for some years.  Now I know this is normal for contemplatives - Teresa of Avila and Jeffrey, in conversation, mentioned the condition.  Some x's I do not want to run into people I know - other x's I do not want to run into anyone.  I continue to live, 16 years, in a wonderful area , Silver City. NM.  When I go to northern India for the winter, I experience less agoraphobia and there are many many people.  Perhaps because I retired as soon as possible about 16 years ago and I live alone, but not at all lonely, this increases the tendency... I check my pragmatic ego to see what is possible on a given day...

Jhanananda

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Re: agoraphobia
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 08:43:31 PM »
Agoraphobia (from Greek ἀγορά, "marketplace"; and φόβος/φοβία, -phobia) is an anxiety disorder characterized by anxiety in situations where it is perceived to be difficult or embarrassing to escape.

Thank-you Stu for starting the discussion on the Spiritual Crisis with the topic of Agoraphobia.  I moved the topic to Kundalini and the Spiritual Crisis, because it belongs here, but I had not activated that part of the forum yet.

Anxiety of being in crowded places, and even being in a city, is actually common for people going through the spiritual awakening.  I find it is a part of the hyper-sensitive phase of the spiritual awakening, when we not only become deeply aware of our own psyche put the psyche of others.

I believe it is this hypersensitivity that propels most mystics into a long period in the wilderness.  This might be one of the reasons why you moved to Silver City, NM.

The hypersensitivity that I experience as a mystic is what has kept me in wilderness areas and small town near wilderness areas for most of the last 12 years.  My insight extends to the psyche of others, and I find most people have deep levels of anxiety, fear and resentment.
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mcarl40

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Re: agoraphobia
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2012, 05:40:13 PM »
Yeah, greed, hatred and delusion: the kilesas, that's what it's all about, like Ajahn Chah says.

Most other tasks in life are small in comparison with facing up to greed, hatred and delusion both in yourself and others.

Not quite sure why that should be. I guess the answer to that is "karma". Why karma? I think the answer to that is "unanswerable"

Alexander

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Re: agoraphobia
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2012, 06:16:31 PM »
I went through a period where I had a dry hatred of pretty much everyone (with a few exceptions) for a couple of years. It sounds very similar to the experiences you guys are describing. Especially growing up in a culture which is all about stupid bollocks, it takes a lot of effort on a person's part to break free from all that. And since it's the 21st century, you have to world-renounce in a modern way. =)

I deal with most people perfectly fine at this point, though. Except I can't bond with people if it involves pop culture or material nonsense. Most of my deeper relationships are related with religion in some way.
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mcarl40

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Re: agoraphobia
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2012, 04:05:15 AM »
Yeah, I guess that is true for me too....now that I think about it...you aren't able to have friends and just talk about superficial things as easily....or maybe its just that you sense the hatred that is behind a lot of those superficial things. But I think it is perfectly possible to talk about superficial things with the right person.

For instance, I have a friend who is not interested in spirituality at all, but he is a very good-hearted person. So even though I am not that interested in things like baseball, and he knows that I am not that interested, we can have a nice conversation, for hours even, about baseball, and even though the superficial subject matter is baseball, it's really this good will towards each other that is the subject of our talking....and to be honest, and a little silly, I guess, it kinda makes me cry to talk about it, because he is really, despite having the flaws we all have, a good hearted person.

But your point is well taken. There is a lot of anger and hatred out there, and a lot of people, including people you call "friends" consciously or not, can drag you in to that....often in the context of a conversation about music, movies or some other topic.

In fact, the Pali canon has a whole list of topics you aren't supposed to talk about...let me see if I can find them.....wow, I know they are there, but its taking a long time.....OK, finally! here it is, and amazingly enough it is in a sutta in English called "The Fruit of the Contemplative Life"!!!

"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these — talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms, and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical discussions of the past and future], the creation of the world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or not — he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.02.0.than.html

Now, what I love about the Pali canon is this kind of list of specific things. There is a kind of humor about it, in its exhaustive specificity, and I think the writers of the Pali canon were aware of this.

The point for me is this:
1> and I put this first! It is a MISTAKE to take passages like this literally as the word of God, as in "I will go to hell in a handbasket if I talk about armies, alarms and battles." The reason I put this first is because there are those in the Theravadin community who take exactly this attitude and it is not healthy in my opinion.

2> The point of passages like this is be careful what you say, what you are talking about, and why you are talking about it. Pay attention. That is good advice. If you are talking about armies alarms and battles with metta and compassion, at the right time, at the right place and with the right person, then how is that bad?

Jhanananda

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Re: agoraphobia
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2012, 01:56:28 PM »
Yeah, greed, hatred and delusion: the kilesas, that's what it's all about, like Ajahn Chah says.

Most other tasks in life are small in comparison with facing up to greed, hatred and delusion both in yourself and others.

Not quite sure why that should be. I guess the answer to that is "karma". Why karma? I think the answer to that is "unanswerable"
I think you hit it right on the nail here, mcarl40.  I believe one of the main reasons why most mainstream religions do not understand the the contemplative life is the holy life is because most people and most monks and priests are deeply frightened of looking inside themselves to see that the most evil that exists in the world exists right inside them. So, it takes a lot of compassion and equanimity for one's own weaknesses to meditate through one's own addictions and neuroses.

Avoiding well-gossip, water fountain/coffee urn-gossip does help the contemplative avoid re-stimulating the addiction to coffee urn-gossip, which just re-stimulates the monkey mind.  But, arguably, one can also be mindful during those social gatherings to avoid its pitfalls, while negotiating the world.  But, most mystics just end up recluses like me.
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