Down the Rabbit Hole

[Jhanon]

Wow. I've been reviewing much of the forum, such as "Can arahants be hostile" and learning things I didn't know about the Buddha or Jhananda.

I suppose I came here carrying quite the belief system. Or at least I hoped that meditation and enlightenment were a guaranteed ticket to blameless peace, wisdom, happiness and security. That it is the very best one could do, in consideration of as much of the bigger picture one can see.

But now I am seeing this all seems to be governed by the laws which make the rest of life kind of lame, also. Duality blows. (2 words i haven't used in quite a long time, and honestly it felt good not to censor this expression).

There has been an upside to this, though.

Suddenly I re-realize how precious it is to just to let the house cat lay on my chest, and laugh as she continues to smother my face while I am trying to write this. That, even though I intend to keep meditating, I think I also want to at least try to enjoy and do well in what worldly things are still in this life I inhabit. To balance both the worldly and spiritual as much as possible, without losing the way or desired fruit. I wonder if the Buddha would consider this the middle way. I doubt it, but to me it is a comforting feeling.

This all reminds me of how I would feel while on a psychedelic back in the day. Except this time it isn't induced by one, which is a little freaky. There was a sense of freedom, wonder, and opportunity. but with leaving the cage comes a greater sense of insecurity. That insecurity often inclined me To appreciate more and live in the moment. But it also can open up to fear and despair, as it sometimes did. I've been down this road enough to know just go with the former and not worry.

I hope there isn't something big I am missing. I hope, despite how correct this path seems to me, that i am not missing something more necessary that I could put my efforts toward. I hope to find a lasting security from suffering in even the slightest. I hope this is the right way, and that it is the greatest investment one can make. I hope it is worth it.

[Jhanananda]

Wow. I've been reviewing much of the forum, such as "Can arahants be hostile" and learning things I didn't know about the Buddha or Jhananda.

I suppose I came here carrying quite the belief system. Or at least I hoped that meditation and enlightenment were a guaranteed ticket to blameless peace, wisdom, happiness and security. That it is the very best one could do, in consideration of as much of the bigger picture one can see.

But now I am seeing this all seems to be governed by the laws which make the rest of life kind of lame, also. Duality blows. (2 words i haven't used in quite a long time, and honestly it felt good not to censor this expression)...

I hope there isn't something big I am missing. I hope, despite how correct this path seems to me, that i am not missing something more necessary that I could put my efforts toward. I hope to find a lasting security from suffering in even the slightest. I hope this is the right way, and that it is the greatest investment one can make. I hope it is worth it.

There are a number of ways to express the first of the 4 Noble Truths.  This is as good as any of them.  I have also heard, "Life suck, then you die."  That works to.

Your title for this thread has been on my mind for the last few days.  When you go lucid, even in the sleep state, 24-7, as I have been for about 40 years, then reality just seems like Alice in Wonderland going from one rabbit hole to the next.  The movie "Vanilla Sky" expressed this quite well.

However, when you move above the lower astral realms, then there is no more rabbit hole, after rabbit hole.  You can look down upon it all, and see how beautiful it really is, even the predator-prey action of the material plane.  Bette Midler's From a Distance expressed that quite well for me.

Being able to step back from material life, as well as immaterial life, requires attaining the 7th stage of the religious experience (samadhi).  When you get to the 8th, then all of space-time becomes the fabric of your being, and it is all beautiful, luminous, bliss and love.

[Jhanon]

There are a number of ways to express the first of the 4 Noble Truths.  This is as good as any of them.  I have also heard, "Life suck, then you die."  That works to.

LOL. But Jhananda, let me say that I am going to be even more forthcoming from her on. I am concerned that it never gets better here on Earth for a mystic--just different. I understand a better life on earth is not the end goal, but I would like some immediate as well as future relief. I watch your videos from a few years ago, and you seem happy and at peace. But I read some of the things you say about SPAM, religious authority, and marginalization, it does seem like even you are not immune to the woes of life on Earth. That maybe you are even more sensitive and therefor reactive. I am certainly not attacking you, but using you as an example to help me understand the extent to which this path can provide relief.

I would at least like life to be more simple and carefree, as this adventure initially provided (before I was consistent in jhana). I know that as a relatively free-thinking intelligent individual, there are many woes that come with that intelligence and awareness. And so I am concerned that with higher attainment comes increasing awareness of the dissatisfactoriness of life, which in reflection of the 4 noble truths seems logical and likely. But despite knowing the truth thoroughly, I want to be a beacon of hope for others, to uplift them--even if it is not to sway them onto the path to enlightenment. When something bad happens, I want to compassionately rise above and uplift whoever is involved. Perhaps this is due to the role I played as a child in a dysfunctional family.

Your title for this thread has been on my mind for the last few days.  When you go lucid, even in the sleep state, 24-7, as I have been for about 40 years, then reality just seems like Alice in Wonderland going from one rabbit hole to the next.  The movie "Vanilla Sky" expressed this quite well.

Vanilla sky was..... I appreciated its novelty, but it was rather de-moralizing--hahaha. But are you perhaps saying that due to the destruction of reliance on this reality, it becomes easier to deal with life on earth? I want to be able to laugh sincerely but compassionately at almost anything that would otherwise be depressing or frustrating. I guess I was hoping, based on some of the self-changes I experienced early on in my search for jhana, that life would flow more and more easily. That it could be light-hearted like a game, where the tragic and frustrating could be transcended. That I would have the immediate wisdom to resolve issues and help us return to a positive frame of mind. (Trust me, I know how naive I sound.)

However, when you move above the lower astral realms, then there is no more rabbit hole, after rabbit hole.  You can look down upon it all, and see how beautiful it really is, even the predator-prey action of the material plane.  Bette Midler's From a Distance expressed that quite well for me.

But then how does it feel when you come back to this plane and body after an experience like that?

Being able to step back from material life, as well as immaterial life, requires attaining the 7th stage of the religious experience (samadhi).  When you get to the 8th, then all of space-time becomes the fabric of your being, and it is all beautiful, luminous, bliss and love.

Could this attainment mean I can be light-hearted about life here on earth? I suppose when I read about the Buddha, I always envisioned an unshakable radiance. Someone easy to be around, that brought almost nothing but good to life for others.

[Jhanananda]

LOL. But Jhananda, let me say that I am going to be even more forthcoming from her on. I am concerned that it never gets better here on Earth for a mystic--just different.

It depends upon which you prefer, martyrdom, or daily crucifixion.

I understand a better life on earth is not the end goal, but I would like some immediate as well as future relief. I watch your videos from a few years ago, and you seem happy and at peace. But I read some of the things you say about SPAM, religious authority, and marginalization, it does seem like even you are not immune to the woes of life on Earth. That maybe you are even more sensitive and therefor reactive. I am certainly not attacking you, but using you as an example to help me understand the extent to which this path can provide relief.

If you want a comfortable life then never tell anyone you got anything out of meditation, and do not try to help anyone meditate, or achieve the superior fruit; because if you do, then you will loose your credibility, you will loose your career, you will be written out of your parent's will, your friends, even your children will abandon you.  Your students will harangue you with endless questions, repeat the same question over, and over again, and test you until you go mad.

I would at least like life to be more simple and carefree, as this adventure initially provided (before I was consistent in jhana). I know that as a relatively free-thinking intelligent individual, there are many woes that come with that intelligence and awareness. And so I am concerned that with higher attainment comes increasing awareness of the dissatisfactoriness of life, which in reflection of the 4 noble truths seems logical and likely. But despite knowing the truth thoroughly, I want to be a beacon of hope for others, to uplift them--even if it is not to sway them onto the path to enlightenment. When something bad happens, I want to compassionately rise above and uplift whoever is involved. Perhaps this is due to the role I played as a child in a dysfunctional family.

Well, if you want to be a beacon of hope and guidance, then you are in for martyrdom.

Vanilla sky was..... I appreciated its novelty, but it was rather de-moralizing--hahaha. But are you perhaps saying that due to the destruction of reliance on this reality, it becomes easier to deal with life on earth? I want to be able to laugh sincerely but compassionately at almost anything that would otherwise be depressing or frustrating. I guess I was hoping, based on some of the self-changes I experienced early on in my search for jhana, that life would flow more and more easily. That it could be light-hearted like a game, where the tragic and frustrating could be transcended. That I would have the immediate wisdom to resolve issues and help us return to a positive frame of mind. (Trust me, I know how naive I sound.)

Well, then keep it to yourself, and you will be fine.

But then how does it feel when you come back to this plane and body after an experience like that?

You will want to help people out of their misery

Could this attainment mean I can be light-hearted about life here on earth? I suppose when I read about the Buddha, I always envisioned an unshakable radiance. Someone easy to be around, that brought almost nothing but good to life for others.

Well, read the Samyutta Nikaya, and you will get a completely different picture of Siddharta Gautama.