Vision of the Noble Ones

[Alexander]

One of the spiritual powers, and a very important one, is Vision of the Noble Ones.

What is this power? It is an ability to discern the four Noble Individuals from ordinary people. This includes (1) being able to intuit generally who is Noble; and (2) being able to discern specifically who is a streamwinner, once-returner, nonreturner, or arahant.

I would argue that this power is a necessity to make progress. This is because we must develop relationships with Noble Individuals, and study with them, to develop spiritually.

Because the spiritual life is for the most part invisible, having this vision implies you have a very refined critical reason, and an intuitive insight into the signs of attainment.

Finally, one argument about this vision is that it is impossible ever to see above one's own level.

Recently, I found a streamwinner who I thought was extraordinary, and who could immediately make the switch into being a once-returner. So, I began to develop a relationship with him. But, what he did not understand was that he was talking to someone who was at a very different stage than he was. He thought that he knew things and that I did not know anything. I was extremely patient: but, eventually, he became hostile. Even now, he remains unaware of the irony of his behavior. Could he not see because of my different level?

If you think about it, in a crowd of 100,000 people, who are nonreturners? Arahants? The latter are unbelievably rare. To have an immediate, personal relationship with one must be the result of fate. But, then, it is an unfortunate thing, to have had the opportunity of a relationship, but then to give it up or to be unaware of the person that was in front of you.

[Alexander]

This topic makes me think of a Biblical quote:

"They shall have eyes, but not see. They shall have ears, but not hear."

[Alexander]

And ironically, the name of my friend was Thomas.

[Michel]

... This is because we must develop relationships with Noble Individuals, and study with them, to develop spiritually.

"This is the entire holy life, Ananda, that is, good friendship, good companionship,
good comradeship. When a bhikkhu has a good friend, a good
companion, a good comrade, it is to be expected that he will
develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path. And how,
Ananda, does a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develop and cultivate the Noble
Eightfold Path? Here, handa, a bhikkhu develops right view,
which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation,
maturing in release. He develops right intention . . . right speech
... right action ... right livelihood .. . right effort . .. right mindfulness
. . . right concentration, which is based upon seclusion,
dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way,
Ananda, that a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold
Path." SN 3:18

[Alexander]

"This is the entire holy life, Ananda, that is, good friendship, good companionship,
good comradeship. When a bhikkhu has a good friend, a good
companion, a good comrade, it is to be expected that he will
develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path. And how,
Ananda, does a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develop and cultivate the Noble
Eightfold Path? Here, handa, a bhikkhu develops right view,
which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation,
maturing in release. He develops right intention . . . right speech
... right action ... right livelihood .. . right effort . .. right mindfulness
. . . right concentration, which is based upon seclusion,
dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way,
Ananda, that a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold
Path." SN 3:18

An excellent quote. And St. Augustine:

"To talk and laugh and do kindness to one another; to read well-written books together; to make jokes together and then to talk seriously together." (Confessions IV 8)

[Michel]

... And St. Augustine:

"To talk and laugh and do kindness to one another; to read well-written books together; to make jokes together and then to talk seriously together." (Confessions IV

That's it, isn't it!? If only... People would truly flourish in such a community of individuals who love and care for each other. The Sangha, in our case, is but a dream of something to come. If not in this lifetime, then perhaps the next.

It's truly coincidental, aglorincz, that you raise the subject of Noble friendship and community, because for the last two days I was thinking how ideal it would be, and this morning I came across the sutta on friendship and the holy life, and finally I came  across your post. Is that a triple coincidence or what?

[trjones]

The isolation mystics feel makes this post both immediately relevant and mutually coincidental. The interesting thing about that text from the Buddha is he states that the "entire holy life" is spiritual friendship and then a few lines later states this is conducive to the 8fold path which is rooted in "seclusion." This forces the mystic into deciding the proper balance between isolation and community. I, for one, find myself needing more spiritual friendship. It would be great to have friends to share spiritual thoughts, feelings, and experiences with.

Ajahn Sona said that one of the most enjoyable things about being a monk was the spiritual fellowship within the Sangha. He stated that the fellow monks/mystics are genuinely concerned about each other's well-being and that this forms the bases of their daily conversation. Sounds like compassion and care from other contemplatives is a necessity for many on the Path. I don't see much hope for Sangha support these days apart from a few select monasteries. I am just not quite ready to be celibate and spend significant time chanting Pali.

[Jhanananda]

... This is because we must develop relationships with Noble Individuals, and study with them, to develop spiritually.

Thank-you, aglorincz for starting such a relevant thread.  The Noble Individual, in Pali, is Arya Pugala. The spiritual friend is, in Pali, Kalianamita, which refers to loving kindness.

"This is the entire holy life, Ananda, that is, good friendship, good companionship,
good comradeship. When a bhikkhu has a good friend, a good
companion, a good comrade, it is to be expected that he will
develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path. And how,
Ananda, does a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develop and cultivate the Noble
Eightfold Path? Here, handa, a bhikkhu develops right view,
which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation,
maturing in release. He develops right intention . . . right speech
... right action ... right livelihood .. . right effort . .. right mindfulness
. . . right concentration, which is based upon seclusion,
dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way,
Ananda, that a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion,
a good comrade, develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold
Path." SN 3:18

Thank-you, Michel, for posting such a relevant quote. 

I don't see much hope for Sangha support these days apart from a few select monasteries. I am just not quite ready to be celibate and spend significant time chanting Pali.

Sadly I found no support whatsoever from the Buddha sangha, so I would not expect anyother genuine mystic to find it either. It is my goal to make this forum such a genuinely supportive sangha (community).  It is up to each and everyone of you to behave as community members (sangha).

[Michel]

Now let's look at the other side of the coin. The Buddha didn't need any sangha in his quest for enlightenment. He managed to attain liberation in large measure by his own efforts.

I came across this sutta today. It shows how totally autonomous the Buddha was, not needing anyone.

... Then Mara's daughters - Tanha, Arati, and Raga - approached
the Blessed One and stood to one side. Standing to one
side, Mara's daughter Tanha addressed the Blessed One in
verse:

 "Is it because you are sunk in sorrow
That you meditate in the woods?
Because you have lost wealth or pine for it,
Or committed some crime in the village?
Why don't you make friends with people?
Why don't you form any intimate ties?"

[The Blessed One:]

 "Having conquered the army of the pleasant and agreeable,
Meditating alone, I discovered bliss,
The attainment of the goal, the peace of the heart.
Therefore I don't make friends with people,
Nor will I form any intimate ties."  SN 4:25

[Jhanananda]

Mara's daughters - Tanha, Arati, and Raga

tanhá: (lit. 'thirst'): 'craving', is the chief root of suffering
Arati: Boredom
rága: 'lust', 'greed', is a synonym of lobha (s. múla), tanhá (q.v.) and abhijjhá (s. kammapatha).
GWV dictionary

[Michel]

Mara's daughters - Tanha, Arati, and Raga

tanhá: (lit. 'thirst'): 'craving', is the chief root of suffering
Arati: Boredom
rága: 'lust', 'greed', is a synonym of lobha (s. múla), tanhá (q.v.) and abhijjhá (s. kammapatha).
GWV dictionary

Appropriate names. Come to think of it, lust or greed and craving are rather boring. I would call these three sweethearts the "Unholy Trinity."

[Jhanananda]

Mara's daughters - Tanha, Arati, and Raga

tanhá: (lit. 'thirst'): 'craving', is the chief root of suffering
Arati: Boredom
rága: 'lust', 'greed', is a synonym of lobha (s. múla), tanhá (q.v.) and abhijjhá (s. kammapatha).
GWV dictionary

Appropriate names. Come to think of it, lust or greed and craving are rather boring. I would call these three sweethearts the "Unholy Trinity."

That is why Siddhartha Gautama called them "Mara's daughters."  Mara is the Indic equivalent of the devil.

[Michel]

That is why Siddhartha Gautama called them "Mara's daughters."  Mara is the Indic equivalent of the devil.

Does Mara actually exist as a deva that resides in the heavens as the Pali Canon describes him? Or is he a symbolic personification of the evil taints of greed, hatred and delusion that reside in all unenlightened beings? Could we say that Mara is our sense of ego?

[Alexander]

Does Mara actually exist as a deva that resides in the heavens as the Pali Canon describes him? ...

I would also be interested in hearing you discuss the spiritual realm, Jhananda. In your video on the OOBE you said you would dedicate a whole video at some point to the topic, but never did.

[Jhanananda]

evil taints of greed, hatred and delusion that reside in all unenlightened beings? Could we say that Mara is our sense of ego?

In my experience of the hell-realms, there is no devil, in the Abrahamic sense.  There are; however, over-lords/angles/devas who look after and protect the evil ones, more in a Shiva/Hindu conception.

I would also be interested in hearing you discuss the spiritual realm, Jhananda. In your video on the OOBE you said you would dedicate a whole video at some point to the topic, but never did.

One day soon I will create a video on the topic.  I have a lengthy video in production on the topic of alternative fuels that needs to go up onto my YouTube channel next, then after it is posted a shamanic ritual with a poetry reading in the background will go up.