Winston's Meditation Case Histories

[Jhanananda]

Just to add a really strange encounter...

I'm not sure if it's really a dream but it is not the first time I had such a strange lustful dream. It always ended up with me ejaculating for real when I wake up. I find that lust is a huge problem when I'm asleep.

My encounter was a little half-lucid. I found myself together with a humanoid looking lady (I didn't actually see her as female but felt her as feminine energy) and then there was just sudden lust and I ended up in a position where I was just about to have sex.

The pleasure was so intense that suddenly my mindfulness habit kicked in and I realized what I was doing. Immediately, my lucidity shot up and I forced myself to return. Sure enough, my physical body was at that point of release. I immediately got up from bed and started meditating to quell the passion emotion.

This is how overcoming lust worked for me.  Just keep coming back, know we all of clay feet, so we all fail, those who succeed keep trying.

It's not the first time, but it's the first time I've managed to stop this kind of lust encounter before the point of ejaculation. I'm not sure what this means, but it felt "hyper-real". Maybe it's just a dream, but I just wanted to write that I've actually managed to keep mindfulness while I was nearly unconscious in my dream.

As lucidity grows for you in the sleep state, then the more you will be able to make choices, which will allow you to move to other domains where there is no lust.

Today, I got up and did body mindfulness and I found that I reached first Jhana extremely quickly. There was a sensation I didn't really notice before... The pleasure itself was a little "burning" as if something was burning within, but not a bad kind of burn, but a pleasurable burn. I have no idea if that means anything but then I was able to reach equanimity. Today was one of my better meditation sessions, strangely.

Good work pays off.

Also, I found that I always experience these kind of things especially when I've gotten into a pretty deep state of meditation the day before. Then the moment I release my semen, the progress of my meditation backtracks.

Progress is made when we fall, we pick ourselves back up, and move forward, as you have demonstrated.

How do you channel that to meditation? Do you mean like sexual tantra or like sex transmutation and all?

Sexual tantra is just another example of misguided people.  What you are doing, learning to be self-aware in the sleep state, and getting up and meditating when lust, or any of the other fetters/sins arises, is how one truly sublimates the sexual drive, and other instinctual behavior.

[Sam Lim]

If you can bring the energy from the base chakra and up through the crown chakra. It takes lots of practice.
Base chakra equals to sexual energy and the crown chakra is spiritual energy.

[bodhimind]

Sexual tantra is just another example of misguided people.  What you are doing, learning to be self-aware in the sleep state, and getting up and meditating when lust, or any of the other fetters/sins arises, is how one truly sublimates the sexual drive, and other instinctual behavior.

Strangely I had that same intuition that sexual tantra was a wrong practice based on false view, that's why while I've been exposed to its techniques I've never had that urge to try it out.

Hmm, would you think that it's kind of like what psychologists call 'extinction of conditioning'? Such as trying to reverse the conditioning of the stimuli and response.

If you can bring the energy from the base chakra and up through the crown chakra. It takes lots of practice.
Base chakra equals to sexual energy and the crown chakra is spiritual energy.

I've heard of what before, and it does remind me of what Taoists do in manipulation of energy in the Microcosmic Orbit:



Apparently the theory is that energy tends to flow from the base of the spine/coccyx to the crown of the head from the back, then downwards from the front of the body (consistent with embryology theory). The theory of this energy flow is also used in Tai Chi Chuan, etc to restore the body (I might do a post on Taoism here to contribute some things I've learnt from a Taoist master). As the master I talked to said though, many Taoists have focused on the wrong things and cultivated in the realm of form and formless, fossilizing false views and achieving feats such as extended lifespans, producing astral doubles, etc. He also pointed towards Buddhism as the "right" way of transcending the five skandhas.

[Jhanananda]

Hmm, would you think that it's kind of like what psychologists call 'extinction of conditioning'? Such as trying to reverse the conditioning of the stimuli and response.

Here I think we should realize as mystics that western psychiatry has never understood us or valued out developments.  Instead of reverse the conditioning, we are deconditioning by just letting go and going to depth in meditation.  What psychiatrist ever did that?  None that I know of.

I've heard of what before, and it does remind me of what Taoists do in manipulation of energy in the Microcosmic Orbit:

Apparently the theory is that energy tends to flow from the base of the spine/coccyx to the crown of the head from the back, then downwards from the front of the body (consistent with embryology theory). The theory of this energy flow is also used in Tai Chi Chuan, etc to restore the body (I might do a post on Taoism here to contribute some things I've learnt from a Taoist master). As the master I talked to said though, many Taoists have focused on the wrong things and cultivated in the realm of form and formless, fossilizing false views and achieving feats such as extended lifespans, producing astral doubles, etc. He also pointed towards Buddhism as the "right" way of transcending the five skandhas.

Here the mystic is not trying to do anything.  The energy flows are natural, so all the mystic does is observe them.  If they go up, or down, the mystic just observes it.  That is all.

[Jhanon]

I've been struggling with a surge in lust recently. I noticed that whenever I go celibate for a very long time, there is this sudden accumulation of sexual instinct waiting to go off. In mindfulness, I might catch that spark of lust that generates but sometimes it just causes bodily arousal, that emotion is set deep inside and i feel physically terrible. I might also feel my blood flow increasing towards my genital areas or lower bodily parts. I can feel my mental energy slowly being sucked towards the genital areas. Argh.

We all struggle with lust, because all organisms, and we are an organism, have 3 imperatives:
1] Secure subsistence.  If an organism does not immediately secure subsistence it will parish. 
2] Once subsistence is secured, then reproduction is necessary.  If an organism does not reproduce as quickly as possible then the species might go extinct.
3] Once subsistence and reproduction are secured, then all organisms must secure their subsistence and the product of their reproduction; thus fight or flight arises.
Thus, as we enter deep meditation states, then we will be presented with at least one, if not all of, these vital imperatives.  It is therefore necessary for the contemplative, who is intent upon cultivating deep meditations states, to learn to not be distracted by natural organic behavior.

There is a tremendous amount of power and insight in those words. If calling a friend on the phone is uncommon in a world of text-messagers--then Jhananda just dropped communication from a distant form of physical alien life. Ha!  In other words, communication with this much power in it is very uncommon to be directly communicated to an individual. I'm beginning to realize just how much compassion Jhananda honors the sincere newcomer with.

And, I'm appreciating bodhi's honesty and forthcoming. Makes this a lot simpler.

[Jhanon]

When we can maintain our awareness upon the charisms, then there is no room for the fetters/hindrances/sins to grab a hold.  So, keep coming back.  Keep going deeper.  Know that you will fail, time and again, but if you keep coming back, then one day you will be free, free, free of the fetters/hindrances/sins.

This cannot be more true. You'll fall, but just get back up. The next wave is better than the last. Then you fall off again, but just get back up. And it gets better and better. At least, this is my ongoing experience over the years I've practiced.

[bodhimind]

I cannot be more thankful for having you people here as a guidance to my meditation. So many things are being cleared up and I finally see some of my deluded views. I will just persist on in my mindfulness and meditation.

Lately, the bliss (or physical bliss) tends to tingle even when I'm walking around and I cannot seem to multi-task at all. It might seem that I'm walking around in first or second jhana.

I have a few questions though...

- Does "light" always happen when you go into deep jhana? From what I gather in the suttas, they don't seem to mention any kind of light, although I experienced it once naturally when I dissolved my sense of self in meditation.

- Also, I understand that the first Jhana does still have the remnant of the sixth sense of consciousness. However, would it be the case that this 'bliss' is also a tactile sensation birthed from inner touch? I do remember reading the sutta, saying that both external and internal senses should be quelled. In this way, I am a little confused about how not completely withdrawing the senses lead to a Jhana experience.

[Jhanananda]

I cannot be more thankful for having you people here as a guidance to my meditation. So many things are being cleared up and I finally see some of my deluded views. I will just persist on in my mindfulness and meditation.

I went to many gurus, and joined many religious movements, and contemplative groups and never once found factual or skilled guidance from those groups; however, I did find a few individuals who gave me some useful guidance.  Also, those groups tended to marginalize me after I spoke with the guiding teacher seeking advice.  So, this is why I started this forum, and its predecessor.

Lately, the bliss (or physical bliss) tends to tingle even when I'm walking around and I cannot seem to multi-task at all. It might seem that I'm walking around in first or second jhana.

It is normal to have the charisms extend into our daily life, but doing so makes some people very nervous, especially when their teacher or priest is a moron.

I have a few questions though...

- Does "light" always happen when you go into deep jhana? From what I gather in the suttas, they don't seem to mention any kind of light, although I experienced it once naturally when I dissolved my sense of self in meditation.

Yes, there are charisms that are associated with every sense field, so, yes, light is an option, although the suttas do not spend much time on the subject.

- Also, I understand that the first Jhana does still have the remnant of the sixth sense of consciousness. However, would it be the case that this 'bliss' is also a tactile sensation birthed from inner touch? I do remember reading the sutta, saying that both external and internal senses should be quelled. In this way, I am a little confused about how not completely withdrawing the senses lead to a Jhana experience.

Well, the biggest problem with the suttas is morons have been translating and or interpreting it for thousands of years.  So, you are just going to have to consider that I might be right that the whole point of the N8P is to withdraw from the physical senses and put your attention upon sensory phenomena that is not based upon sensory stimuli, which is called 'jhana-nimitta' in the suttas, and charism in Christian mystical literature.

[Jhanon]

When we can maintain our awareness upon the charisms, then there is no room for the fetters/hindrances/sins to grab a hold.  So, keep coming back.  Keep going deeper.  Know that you will fail, time and again, but if you keep coming back, then one day you will be free, free, free of the fetters/hindrances/sins.

This cannot be more true. You'll fall, but just get back up. The next wave is better than the last. Then you fall off again, but just get back up. And it gets better and better. At least, this is my ongoing experience over the years I've practiced.

Experienced and Posted Today which Relates to This
(I love seeing all the connections)

Artificial Intelligence - Stand Alone

I cannot be more thankful for having you people here as a guidance to my meditation. So many things are being cleared up and I finally see some of my deluded views. I will just persist on in my mindfulness and meditation.

I went to many gurus, and joined many religious movements, and contemplative groups and never once found factual or skilled guidance from those groups; however, I did find a few individuals who gave me some useful guidance.  Also, those groups tended to marginalize me after I spoke with the guiding teacher seeking advice.  So, this is why I started this forum, and its predecessor.

Lately, the bliss (or physical bliss) tends to tingle even when I'm walking around and I cannot seem to multi-task at all. It might seem that I'm walking around in first or second jhana.

It is normal to have the charisms extend into our daily life, but doing so makes some people very nervous, especially when their teacher or priest is a moron.

I have a few questions though...

- Does "light" always happen when you go into deep jhana? From what I gather in the suttas, they don't seem to mention any kind of light, although I experienced it once naturally when I dissolved my sense of self in meditation.

Yes, there are charisms that are associated with every sense field, so, yes, light is an option, although the suttas do not spend much time on the subject.

- Also, I understand that the first Jhana does still have the remnant of the sixth sense of consciousness. However, would it be the case that this 'bliss' is also a tactile sensation birthed from inner touch? I do remember reading the sutta, saying that both external and internal senses should be quelled. In this way, I am a little confused about how not completely withdrawing the senses lead to a Jhana experience.

Well, the biggest problem with the suttas is morons have been translating and or interpreting it for thousands of years.  So, you are just going to have to consider that I might be right that the whole point of the N8P is to withdraw from the physical senses and put your attention upon sensory phenomena that is not based upon sensory stimuli, which is called 'jhana-nimitta' in the suttas, and charism in Christian mystical literature.

Again, Jhananda has nailed it perfectly. This is all true in my experience.

However, I would like to say two things. One, these days there is much more openness and familiarity with the mystic--although it's still dismal. Two, I have a psychiatrist that recognizes my mystic abilities, as she has some of her own.

Things are changing, and your experience will vary from Jhananda and I. But, he is still overall accurate.

[bodhimind]

That makes more sense now!

I suddenly realized something over the few days that I've been reading sutras and material from this forum/site and trying to apply them in my practice.

The "method" that got me to Jhana the other time (skeleton meditation, which was based off mindfulness of the body as Jhanananda had stated) had the same stages that Jhanon talked about in this thread.

The first step of the method was to focus on "illuminating" the skeleton in the body by contemplating on the foulness of the flesh, organs and "discarding them away". The method was to contemplate the rotting and pus-forming on the flesh and skin, revealing the bone. I found that by doing this, in my mind I was in a way, letting go of the physical body. By just maintaining a balance in my attention, not exerting, yet still being mindful, the bone naturally illuminates. So I contemplated every part of the body, starting from my left big toe, then to all toes, then upwards, until I reached the skull. By the time I reached the skull, my attention seemed very sustained and there was a very intense tingling and blissful sensation throughout my body.

I did not even need to keep my attention steadfast on it any more, I took the advice from GWV to anchor my awareness on the blissfulness and joy.

Then the next step was usually to imagine even the bones turning to dust and scattering. I think this represented a form of letting go inside my mind. When I did this, the joy inside of me surged into that of an orgasm.

This was then followed by equanimity, where I could no longer feel any physical bliss. Instead, I started to feel a sort of "tingle" that didn't come from the physical body.

I experienced vivid dizziness, flashing lights, and a tinnitus-like sound that was growing in the background. I could have sworn I almost went into this strange pulling sensation as if my body was being sucked upwards into some kind of space. Then I just freaked out from the new experience and pulled back.

Could it be that I almost generated a mind-made body? It could also have been an anticipation because I've been reading literature and finally understanding that these "siddhis" as described by the sutta was not performed by the physical body but the mind-made body.

I then repeated the meditation in the same way and strangely... I consistently got back to the same point again and again. I guess I'll just keep coming back to face this irrational fear.

It's really amazing how much I've progressed since I've been to this forum/site. I hope I can one day reach the progress of the more advanced mystics here haha.

[Jhanon]

Firstly, although your terms are a bit different than we use--like mind made body (manomaya)--your insight is dead on. A very hearty congratulations to you, my friend Jhananda may have a few details to hammer out with you, but really you have now officially established yourself in jhana. It is now yours to take refuge in at any moment, and any place. You can be free.

This is only the beginning, but it feels like the climax--huh? It keeps climaxing, friend. Remember the waves I talked about? Enjoy your surfing, and MOST IMPORTANTLY: GET BACK UP OMMEDIATELY WHEN YOU FALL OFF. Because the next wave is even bigger.

I feel as though you may attain full enlightenment from this point on of stream-winning, far faster than anyone I've seen on this forum, or guided in real life. Let that give you conviction and humility

[Jhanananda]

This was then followed by equanimity, where I could no longer feel any physical bliss. Instead, I started to feel a sort of "tingle" that didn't come from the physical body.

This "tingle" was most probably the tactile charism.

I experienced vivid dizziness, flashing lights, and a tinnitus-like sound that was growing in the background. I could have sworn I almost went into this strange pulling sensation as if my body was being sucked upwards into some kind of space. Then I just freaked out from the new experience and pulled back.

Could it be that I almost generated a mind-made body? It could also have been an anticipation because I've been reading literature and finally understanding that these "siddhis" as described by the sutta was not performed by the physical body but the mind-made body.

The dizziness is the charism of rapture, which is the kinesthetic charism, which precedes the OOBE. 

Manomya is the Pali term for the OOBE.  It is commonly translated as "mind-made body," which is a literal translation, but it is a poor translation.  OOBE is more accurate.  So, yes, it indeed sounds like you made to the edge of an OOBE, but it frightened you, as it does most people when they have their first few.  If you keep coming back, eventually you will get used to the experience, and enjoy ride.

I then repeated the meditation in the same way and strangely... I consistently got back to the same point again and again. I guess I'll just keep coming back to face this irrational fear.

It's really amazing how much I've progressed since I've been to this forum/site. I hope I can one day reach the progress of the more advanced mystics here haha.

Yes, all one often needs is some skillful guidance.  Too bad so few meditation teachers have sufficient skill to guide people through the charisms to liberation.

[bodhimind]

Firstly, although your terms are a bit different than we use--like mind made body (manomaya)--your insight is dead on. A very hearty congratulations to you, my friend Jhananda may have a few details to hammer out with you, but really you have now officially established yourself in jhana. It is now yours to take refuge in at any moment, and any place. You can be free.

This is only the beginning, but it feels like the climax--huh? It keeps climaxing, friend. Remember the waves I talked about? Enjoy your surfing, and MOST IMPORTANTLY: GET BACK UP OMMEDIATELY WHEN YOU FALL OFF. Because the next wave is even bigger.

I feel as though you may attain full enlightenment from this point on of stream-winning, far faster than anyone I've seen on this forum, or guided in real life. Let that give you conviction and humility

Thank you for the kind words. I will. It's just a little overwhelming at first but I'm sure practice and continuous repetition will make me see this through.

Yes, all one often needs is some skillful guidance.  Too bad so few meditation teachers have sufficient skill to guide people through the charisms to liberation.

I'm really thankful to have discovered the right guidance. It's all so strange how I just happened to chance upon a youtube video out of the thousands of videos out there, then just happened to find myself back here after a few months, realizing that the video I watched was from here, and then suddenly having so much progress when I was stuck around in circles trying to understand what was happening for a few years 

[Jhanon]

Let me ask you, what video in specific?

Also, I know it's strong in the beginning. Please, check out this post when I first established--like you just have. You can visit the whole thread by clicking the blue "quote" title below, if you like. Otherwise, I've simply put what's important in bold.

There is a tremendous amount of questions I've asked lately I apologize, but I feel they are all legitimate and worthy of asking.

Now that I am consistently hitting 2nd or 3rd jhana, does this mean I may enter the dark night soon (or already am)? I am experiencing an increase in unusual discomforts, such as mild dizziness, sudden drops in mindfulness, leg cramps, headaches, and terrifying dreams. Some of this has already been around for a while, but it seems my progress has made them either more apparent or increased in intensity. I suppose it's too late to turn back? LOL

Recently I have made efforts to meditate into 1st or 2nd jhana before falling asleep, as I think it would be great to have an OOBE that I can be certain is an OOBE. Last night I successfully entered 1st or 2nd jhana before falling asleep, but also experienced a terrifying dream where some kind of tall gargoyle like creature was chasing me and others. When I woke, I was instantly almost fully awake and aware, and I felt what appeared to be the jhana tactile and visual charisms still present.

But this dream has made me re-realize that for the last year I've had some rather frightening or unpleasant dreams, and this is what unconsciously caused me 6 months ago to stop my efforts to be aware of and remember my dreams.

What is my best course of action? I am fed up with having dreams that keep me from getting uninterrupted rest, but I also don't think having a couple shots before bed, or making efforts to be otherwise as unaware as possible before sleep is a good idea. What have some of you done to resolve this?

This has also brought to my attention something I never really bothered to consider. There was always an uncertainty if they actually existed as more than a mental exercise or what the jhana's and Path were like. I never, ever thought it would reap so many changes and fruits. But since reviewing some of Jhananda and Michael's postings, I'm suddenly a bit intimidated and hesitant to move forward. On the one hand, this is fascinating, and I seem to be pulled toward it since I was a kid.

This also appears to be what I am most naturally talented at. On the other hand, it almost seems like a great burden to not know if you'll sleep all through the night because of various phenomena, or if you'll break down in tears for seemingly no reason, or see something terrifying during everyday waking life (does that happen?). I don't know what I am looking to hear, but I am tired, and need to finish this post. So far I have found it to be a great and fulfilling ride, but I am concerned at some point it will become more of a burden. I'm hoping that the benefits of the practice continue to outweigh the negatives.

And then compare that with the posts you see of mine now

[bodhimind]

Jhanon, thank you so much for that. Just last night, I was having a huge problem going to sleep. My vision became as if everything was luminiscent and I couldn't exactly see through with my physical eyes. It was as if bright imprints were obscuring my vision. This morning I suddenly had a glimpse of clear vision without my glasses or lenses.

It was a really scary feeling especially at night. My whole body had a very strong tingle. Whenever I thought I should just ignore it a sudden pain comes to the bottom of my forearm. It started on my left and when I tried to ignore it for sleep my right forearm hurt in the same place.

It's also strange since I'm used to unconscious sleep. I can't fathom going into fourth jhana and beyond when I'm going to sleep. I have this irrational fear of detaching from the body. Especially when I started feeling the tactile charism... also it seems as if there was no effort on my part, it keeps progresaing on its own.

I hope to get past these feelings. I too keep being concerned about the phenomena that happen in sleep. I keep wondering if I would suddenly be able to see the dead and spirits and it freaks me out (I had a friend who could see dead people walking around).

To answer the question, I believe it was the "what is jhana" video or one of them. I remember watching a few of them.