Surgery / Medicine

[bodhimind]

I've been pondering over this for quite a while, and then I guess I'll just post a question here since I didn't get any insights about it. I've posted this question in dharmaloka (Ajahn Brahm's forum) before, but it was only the other practitioners, not Ajahn Brahm or other monastics under him that replied, so it wasn't very satisfactory.

Then it became more complicated when I saw the following passage in the Samaññaphala Sutta (DN 2):

"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, maintain themselves by wrong livelihood, by such lowly arts as:

    promising gifts to devas in return for favors; fulfilling such promises;

    demonology;

    teaching house-protection spells;

    inducing virility and impotence;

    consecrating sites for construction;

    giving ceremonial mouthwashes and ceremonial bathing;

    offering sacrificial fires;

    preparing emetics, purgatives, expectorants, diuretics, headache cures;

    preparing ear-oil, eye-drops, oil for treatment through the nose, collyrium, and counter-medicines; curing cataracts, practicing surgery, practicing as a children's doctor, administering medicines and treatments to cure their after-effects --

he abstains from wrong livelihood, from lowly arts such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.

One of the biggest problems here is that I've incurred a lot of debt through my medical studies (nearly 6 figures) and the only way I can possibly pay back is to work as a doctor to pay it back (I don't have a fall-back degree to get employed to raise enough funds to pay them back). This is one of the reasons why I cannot just drop everything and go into a contemplative life.

I must admit I was a little foolish, because all I thought about was how to help people with their physical suffering. It was just this irrational thinking that made me go for it... All the other fields didn't seem to appeal to me. Now, my only thought is to return all the things I owe and then drop everything, then move to seclusion and deep meditation, perhaps by my early/late 40s.

In the meantime, I wish to cultivate further, but now that I've read this, I realized that surgery or even as a doctor giving prescription doesn't seem to adhere to "right livelihood"? Is there a particular reason why?

Is there a way to practice medicine without going against the original reason behind why the Buddha said this?

Would this be applicable to the more modern science or the medicine-men of the past?

Would love the input and insights of the GWV.

Thank you.

[Jhanananda]

I've been pondering over this for quite a while, and then I guess I'll just post a question here since I didn't get any insights about it. I've posted this question in dharmaloka (Ajahn Brahm's forum) before, but it was only the other practitioners, not Ajahn Brahm or other monastics under him that replied, so it wasn't very satisfactory.

Then it became more complicated when I saw the following passage in the Samaññaphala Sutta (DN 2):

"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, maintain themselves by wrong livelihood, by such lowly arts as:

One will have to keep in mind that we live in a different culture and a different time than the time of Siddhartha Gautama.  This is a time when someone who lives off of alms will be harassed by the police, and the population.

One of the biggest problems here is that I've incurred a lot of debt through my medical studies (nearly 6 figures) and the only way I can possibly pay back is to work as a doctor to pay it back (I don't have a fall-back degree to get employed to raise enough funds to pay them back). This is one of the reasons why I cannot just drop everything and go into a contemplative life.

This is one of the many reasons why I consider debt to be a sin, because it tends to force us to make decisions that are not for our good, or for the good of others.

I must admit I was a little foolish, because all I thought about was how to help people with their physical suffering. It was just this irrational thinking that made me go for it... All the other fields didn't seem to appeal to me. Now, my only thought is to return all the things I owe and then drop everything, then move to seclusion and deep meditation, perhaps by my early/late 40s.

Since living as a mendicant is not an easy choice to make in western culture, then I believe it is better to seek a career that provides with sufficient income so that one can have some leisure time to spend in meditation, and the study of philosophy.

In the meantime, I wish to cultivate further, but now that I've read this, I realized that surgery or even as a doctor giving prescription doesn't seem to adhere to "right livelihood"? Is there a particular reason why?

Is there a way to practice medicine without going against the original reason behind why the Buddha said this?

Would this be applicable to the more modern science or the medicine-men of the past?

Would love the input and insights of the GWV.

Thank you.

Do keep in mind that this is a different period and culture.  Since you have chosen medicine for your career, then just follow your experience, inspiration, and insight through it, while doing your best to maintain a daily, rigorous, self-aware, contemplative life.

[bodhimind]

This is one of the many reasons why I consider debt to be a sin, because it tends to force us to make decisions that are not for our good, or for the good of others.

Now that you've put it that way, it sounds reasonable... I guess it is what I have to reap from having sowed that decision.

Since living as a mendicant is not an easy choice to make in western culture, then I believe it is better to seek a career that provides with sufficient income so that one can have some leisure time to spend in meditation, and the study of philosophy.

I plan to be able to raise funds to allow the spreading of the true dharma by contemplatives/mystics as well. I can only do so much when I have my hands tied haha, while meditating still, of course. I want to support the GWV as much as I can too.

Do keep in mind that this is a different period and culture.  Since you have chosen medicine for your career, then just follow your experience, inspiration, and insight through it, while doing your best to maintain a daily, rigorous, self-aware, contemplative life.

I will try my best. Thank you so much for clarifying my doubts about it, this issue has been bugging me for a whole year.