Unpacking Jhana in Theravadan Buddhism

[Jhanananda]

I decided to start a new topic in reply to your question regarding Sheila Catherine's interpretation on jhana.  Sheila Catherine belongs in a very small group of Theravadan meditation teacher who teach about jhana.  I would be in that group, because, since I refer to the Pali Canon, then, by that definition, I am Theravadan, but it stops there for me.

Most Theravadan meditation teachers do not discuss Jhana at all.  In fact if you spend some time unpacking jhana references in Theravadan Buddhism you will find that it has been demonized for about 2,000 years.  This explains why the group of Theravadan meditation teachers, who discuss jhana, is incredibly small.

Early on in my investigations of the term 'jhana' I approached a few Theravadan monks.  One just abruptly turned and left, as if I had just loudly passed gas.  The other laughed in my face and said, "You think you are experiencing jhana"?

The Visuddhimagga schools of Jhana:

The Ayakhema, Leigh Brasington and Sheila Catherine belong to one small school of Theravadan meditation teachers who teach jhana.
This school primarily believes that jhana is a practice strategy of mentally projection or creative visualization of cognitively manifesting the jhana-nimitta.

Gunaratana belongs in his own school

Pau Auk is in his own school

Forest tradition school.

The non-Visuddhimagga schools of Jhana:

Vimalaramsi is in his own school.
While Vimalaramsi rejects the Visuddhimagga, and embraces the Pali canon, he is not willing to believe that it has been incorrectly translated.

Jhananda seems to be in his own school on jhana as well, because none of the above teachers are willing to agree with him on key point, which are:
1) Jhana is not a practice but what happens when one learns to meditate skillfully.
2) The experience of jhana is characterized by ecstatic phenomena, such as: bliss, joy, ecstasy.
3) The Pal Canon has been mistranslated and misinterpreted for thousands of years.

Do you think it's possible for folks to remain still for a very very long time in 4th Jhana? In Sheila Catherine's book she claims that in fourth jhana she can sit there all day (I think I have to check the book) and it can be dangerous to the body as one is so equanimous it's easy to ignore what the body needs.  She also claims this experience of the 4th Jhana is where stories of yogis not moving for a whole week ect. come from.

Bes,t Luke

So, in conclusion, Sheila Catherine belongs to the Ayakhema and Leigh Brasington school of jhana is just a mental projection; thus, it is unlikely that she knows what jhana is.  However, I would agree that the genuine experience of the 4th jhana is characterized by one sitting in meditation continuously for several hours, and feeling as if they could meditate forever, put we do not.  Eventually the meditation state comes to an end on its own, and in my experience the meditation session does not last more than 3 hours, and not days.

Essays that are on this topic are:

The "Wets verses Drys" in Theravadan Buddhism.  Why Does Jhana Represent Conflict?

The Myth of Lineage

How to determine an authentic enlightened teacher

Exposing translator bias in the translation of the Pali Canon and other Asian literature (updated 11-10-04)

Understanding the Language of Gnosis (October 15, 04)

Understanding the Pali terms Piti and Sukha

Understanding the Pali terms, 'vitakka' and 'vicára' (October 10, 2004) 

Understanding Right Meditation (samma-samadhi) Concentration leads to Absorption, which leads to Enlightenment (May 9, 2004)

A Critique of the Abhidhamma and Visuddhimagga

Dispelling the Myth of Access Concentration (upacara-samadhi)

The Lack of Evidence In Support of a 'Dry' Insight Practice

Dispelling Common Misconceptions Regarding Insight (vipassana) and Absorption (Jhana/dhyana)

Understanding Insight and Revelation

The Demonizing of Ecstatic Meditation (Jhana)

The Cha'an, Son and Zen Concept of Makyo the "ghost” or “devil’s cave" as evidence of the subversion of the Buddha Dhamma.

The Mystification of Gnosis

A Critical Analysis of the teaching of Jhana

The Witch-hunt, The Oppression of the Ecstatic Contemplative, paper read at the 2006 CESNUR conference.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/criticism/witch-hunt.htm

The "conspiracy" of hypocrisy

The Suppression of Jhana by the "Sangha" (July, 7, 2005)

The Suppression of Jhana at a Goenka Retreat (August, 2001)

[Jhanananda]

Crow art has Thai monks flapping
By Prangtip Daorueng
Southeast Asia
Nov 15, 2007
crow faced monks

[Soren]

Do you think it's possible for folks to remain still for a very very long time in 4th Jhana? In Sheila Catherine's book she claims that in fourth jhana she can sit there all day (I think I have to check the book) and it can be dangerous to the body as one is so equanimous it's easy to ignore what the body needs.  She also claims this experience of the 4th Jhana is where stories of yogis not moving for a whole week ect. come from.

Bes,t Luke

So, in conclusion, Sheila Catherine belongs to the Ayakhema and Leigh Brasington school of jhana is just a mental projection; thus, it is unlikely that she knows what jhana is.

What is the relationship between mental projection and sitting very still for a long time while being equanimous? I don't see how you reached this conclusion based on what was written.

[Jhanananda]

Do you think it's possible for folks to remain still for a very very long time in 4th Jhana? In Sheila Catherine's book she claims that in fourth jhana she can sit there all day (I think I have to check the book) and it can be dangerous to the body as one is so equanimous it's easy to ignore what the body needs.  She also claims this experience of the 4th Jhana is where stories of yogis not moving for a whole week ect. come from.

Bes,t Luke
[/quote=Jhananda]
So, in conclusion, Sheila Catherine belongs to the Ayakhema and Leigh Brasington school of jhana is just a mental projection; thus, it is unlikely that she knows what jhana is.

I don't see how you reached this conclusion based on what was written.

Soren, you are quoting me out of context, and the context of my reply to Luke has within it all of the material anyone would need to comprehend my response.  However, within the short context of your immediate quote from Luke, it would suggest that Sheila Catherine has arrived at the 4th jhana, because according to him, when she is in the 4th jhana she feels as if she could mediate all day.  That happens to be my definition of the 4th jhana.  So, perhaps she has the genuine experience of jhana.

However, I met her at a Leigh Brasington retreat, I communicated with her and Brasington on numerous occasions.  Before Sheila Catherine published her book my work was self-published on various forums and then my own website.  She surely could have aligned with me, and one would expect so, if she had the genuine experience of jhana; however, at that retreat she had aligned with Brasington, who clearly believed that jhana was just a mental projection, and he was not at all interested in me.

So, I believe a better question to ask, is to ask Sheila Catherine, why she aligns with Brasington and not with Brooks?

Another question to ask is why none of the teachers who teach jhana aligne with Brooks?  I reached out to them all, because they taught jhana, but they were not interested in me. When I spent some time studying their work I found out the reason why.  None of them emphasize the ecstatic component of jhana.  So, you should ask them, or ask yourself, If they have the attainment of jhana, then why does their definition of jhana not include an emphasis upon bliss, joy and ecstasy?  If they have the attainment of jhana, then why do none of them find that translating the terms 'jhana' and 'samadhi' as 'concentration' is completely inappropriate?  If they have the attainment of jhana, then why do they all speak of jhana as a technique, and not as an experience (phala)? If they have the attainment of jhana, then why do none of them find that jhana is the source of the all of the other superior fruit of the contemplative life (maha-phala)?  If they have the attainment of jhana, then why do none of these teachers teach about the other superior fruit (maha-phala)?

What is the relationship between mental projection and sitting very still for a long time while being equanimous?

Jhana is not just "a mental projection" nor is it just "sitting very still for a long time while being equanimous."

Mental projections are a cognitive activity of imagining something, such as a peaceful and serene place.  Or, imagining that one is manifesting the various characteristics of whatever level of jhana one wishes to imagine. Whereas, jhana is free of cognitive activities, such as imagination.

Also, just because one might be able to sit still in meditation posture for a long time does not mean that one is having a religious experience (jhana), because along with that equanimity there must also be the stilling of the mind, as well as bliss, joy and ecstasy; not just concentration.

[Soren]

I don't see how you reached this conclusion based on what was written.

Soren, you are quoting me out of context, and the context of my reply to Luke has within it all of the material anyone would need to comprehend my response.

I am sorry, you are absolutely right, I did not read closely the part above it which said: "The Ayakhema, Leigh Brasington and Sheila Catherine belong to one small school of Theravadan meditation teachers who teach jhana.
This school primarily believes that jhana is a practice strategy of mentally projection or creative visualization of cognitively manifesting the jhana-nimitta." and I didn't see the name.

I do definitely agree that jhana would not be mental projections though. Especially considering the fact that thinking must be stilled, and in suttas Siddhartha even says that it was the ending of thinking which led to samadhi (but of course, it will get translated as concentration).

"And as I remained thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, thinking imbued with renunciation arose in me. I discerned that 'Thinking imbued with renunciation has arisen in me; and that leads neither to my own affliction, nor to the affliction of others, nor to the affliction of both. It fosters discernment, promotes lack of vexation, & leads to Unbinding. If I were to think & ponder in line with that even for a night... even for a day... even for a day & night, I do not envision any danger that would come from it, except that thinking & pondering a long time would tire the body. When the body is tired, the mind is disturbed; and a disturbed mind is far from concentration.' So I steadied my mind right within, settled, unified, & concentrated it. Why is that? So that my mind would not be disturbed.

"And as I remained thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, thinking imbued with non-ill will arose in me. I discerned that 'Thinking imbued with non-ill will has arisen in me; and that leads neither to my own affliction, nor to the affliction of others, nor to the affliction of both. It fosters discernment, promotes lack of vexation, & leads to Unbinding. If I were to think & ponder in line with that even for a night... even for a day... even for a day & night, I do not envision any danger that would come from it, except that thinking & pondering a long time would tire the body. When the body is tired, the mind is disturbed; and a disturbed mind is far from concentration.' So I steadied my mind right within, settled, unified, & concentrated it. Why is that? So that my mind would not be disturbed.

"And as I remained thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, thinking imbued with harmlessness arose in me. I discerned that 'Thinking imbued with harmlessness has arisen in me; and that leads neither to my own affliction, nor to the affliction of others, nor to the affliction of both. It fosters discernment, promotes lack of vexation, & leads to Unbinding. If I were to think & ponder in line with that even for a night... even for a day... even for a day & night, I do not envision any danger that would come from it, except that thinking & pondering a long time would tire the body. When the body is tired, the mind is disturbed; and a disturbed mind is far from concentration.' So I steadied my mind right within, settled, unified, & concentrated it. Why is that? So that my mind would not be disturbed.

[Jhanananda]

I do definitely agree that jhana would not be mental projections though. Especially considering the fact that thinking must be stilled, and in suttas Siddhartha even says that it was the ending of thinking which led to samadhi (but of course, it will get translated as concentration).

Correct, Soren, as long as there is thinking, or mental projection, then one has not left the first jhana.

"And as I remained thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, thinking imbued with renunciation arose in me. I discerned that 'Thinking imbued with renunciation has arisen in me; and that leads neither to my own affliction, nor to the affliction of others, nor to the affliction of both. It fosters discernment, promotes lack of vexation, & leads to Unbinding. If I were to think & ponder in line with that even for a night... even for a day... even for a day & night, I do not envision any danger that would come from it, except that thinking & pondering a long time would tire the body. When the body is tired, the mind is disturbed; and a disturbed mind is far from concentration.' So I steadied my mind right within, settled, unified, & concentrated it. Why is that? So that my mind would not be disturbed.

"And as I remained thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, thinking imbued with non-ill will arose in me. I discerned that 'Thinking imbued with non-ill will has arisen in me; and that leads neither to my own affliction, nor to the affliction of others, nor to the affliction of both. It fosters discernment, promotes lack of vexation, & leads to Unbinding. If I were to think & ponder in line with that even for a night... even for a day... even for a day & night, I do not envision any danger that would come from it, except that thinking & pondering a long time would tire the body. When the body is tired, the mind is disturbed; and a disturbed mind is far from concentration.' So I steadied my mind right within, settled, unified, & concentrated it. Why is that? So that my mind would not be disturbed.

"And as I remained thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, thinking imbued with harmlessness arose in me. I discerned that 'Thinking imbued with harmlessness has arisen in me; and that leads neither to my own affliction, nor to the affliction of others, nor to the affliction of both. It fosters discernment, promotes lack of vexation, & leads to Unbinding. If I were to think & ponder in line with that even for a night... even for a day... even for a day & night, I do not envision any danger that would come from it, except that thinking & pondering a long time would tire the body. When the body is tired, the mind is disturbed; and a disturbed mind is far from concentration.' So I steadied my mind right within, settled, unified, & concentrated it. Why is that? So that my mind would not be disturbed.

Interesting sutta quote.  So, what sutta, and who was the translator?

[Soren]

Interesting sutta quote.  So, what sutta, and who was the translator?

Dvedhavitakka Sutta: Two Sorts of Thinking
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html

[Jhanananda]

Interesting sutta quote.  So, what sutta, and who was the translator?

Dvedhavitakka Sutta: Two Sorts of Thinking
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html

Thank-you Soren, for posting the sources for your sutta quote.  Since I have read the suttas several times, then I have read this sutta several times.  I read it again, and found if you read the whole sutta over again, then you will find this sutta does not say Siddhartha Gautama never had unwholesome thoughts, but that he exercised moment-to-moment, mindful, self-awareness to keep his thoughts upon wholesome thoughts, and away from unwholesome thoughts.

I exercise moment-to-moment, mindful, self-awareness to keep my thoughts upon wholesome thoughts, and away from unwholesome thoughts; while also keeping my mind still, and my awareness upon the charisms 24/7.  That does not mean; however, that when I realize that the enlightened message of the progenitors of all religions has been hijacked by a priesthood who is in service of the hegemony, and actively works to suppress all mystics, and their enlightened message, actively works to suppress my work and marginalize me; that ill-will might arise in my mind.

However, when I find myself marginalized in Western Buddhism and the other western contemplative traditions; and my FaceBook feed is blocked; and my websites and forums are not searched by Google; and there are almost no people who meditate deeply, or are interested in meditating deeply; and there is so little support for myself and the GWV; while frauds like: TM's "Maharishi," Chogum Trungpa and Rajnish are turned into super stars; then I think, "what is the point in continuing to provide contemplative advice, when it always turns into an argument, over deeply flawed beliefs and opinions that are the product of the hijacking of religion by the hegemony?"

[Michael Hawkins]

[T]hen I think, "what is the point in continuing to provide contemplative advice, when it always turns into an argument, over deeply flawed beliefs and opinions that are the product of the hijacking of religion by the hegemony?"

Through it all, Jeffrey, you've connected with a handful of mystics who benefit greatly from your unpacking, from your willingness to engage, and from your persistence in focusing attention on a very basic set of truths related to what should be a universal experience of awakening.  This, alone, makes your efforts valid and worthwhile.

Most folks are too caught-up in hero-worship and legalistic clinging to words on a page to actually live what's being offered here.  It's much easier to argue about who is enlightened and who is not... when essential guidance is staring at us from within the weeds....

[Soren]

Interesting sutta quote.  So, what sutta, and who was the translator?

Dvedhavitakka Sutta: Two Sorts of Thinking
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html

Thank-you Soren, for posting the sources for your sutta quote.  Since I have read the suttas several times, then I have read this sutta several times.  I read it again, and found if you read the whole sutta over again, then you will find this sutta does not say Siddhartha Gautama never had unwholesome thoughts, but that he exercised moment-to-moment, mindful, self-awareness to keep his thoughts upon wholesome thoughts, and away from unwholesome thoughts.

I exercise moment-to-moment, mindful, self-awareness to keep my thoughts upon wholesome thoughts, and away from unwholesome thoughts; while also keeping my mind still, and my awareness upon the charisms 24/7.  That does not mean; however, that when I realize that the enlightened message of the progenitors of all religions has been hijacked by a priesthood who is in service of the hegemony, and actively works to suppress all mystics, and their enlightened message, actively works to suppress my work and marginalize me; that ill-will might arise in my mind.

However, when I find myself marginalized in Western Buddhism and the other western contemplative traditions; and my FaceBook feed is blocked; and my websites and forums are not searched by Google; and there are almost no people who meditate deeply, or are interested in meditating deeply; and there is so little support for myself and the GWV; while frauds like: TM's "Maharishi," Chogum Trungpa and Rajnish are turned into super stars; then I think, "what is the point in continuing to provide contemplative advice, when it always turns into an argument, over deeply flawed beliefs and opinions that are the product of the hijacking of religion by the hegemony?"

Well I dislike being argumentative, but the sutta says:

"As I noticed that it leads to my own affliction, it subsided. As I noticed that it leads to the affliction of others... to the affliction of both... it obstructs discernment, promotes vexation, & does not lead to Unbinding, it subsided. Whenever thinking imbued with sensuality had arisen, I simply abandoned it, destroyed it, dispelled it, wiped it out of existence.

[...]
"As I noticed that it leads to my own affliction, it subsided. As I noticed that it leads to the affliction of others... to the affliction of both... it obstructs discernment, promotes vexation, & does not lead to Unbinding, it subsided. Whenever thinking imbued with ill will had arisen, I simply abandoned it, destroyed it, dispelled it, wiped it out of existence.

[...]

"As I noticed that it leads to my own affliction, it subsided. As I noticed that it leads to the affliction of others... to the affliction of both... it obstructs discernment, promotes vexation, & does not lead to Unbinding, it subsided. Whenever thinking imbued with harmfulness had arisen, I simply abandoned it, destroyed it, dispelled it, wiped it out of existence.

Now technically speaking, in this sutta he only says that it subsides, which doesn't necessarily imply that it was completely gone. However in other suttas he says that ill-will is a fetter, and that one is only an arahant when all of the ten fetters are completely destroyed.

[T]hen I think, "what is the point in continuing to provide contemplative advice, when it always turns into an argument, over deeply flawed beliefs and opinions that are the product of the hijacking of religion by the hegemony?"

I think that you have made progress with some individuals, and if even one more individual can become enlightened it is worth it.

[Alexander]

Through it all, Jeffrey, you've connected with a handful of mystics who benefit greatly from your unpacking, from your willingness to engage, and from your persistence in focusing attention on a very basic set of truths related to what should be a universal experience of awakening.  This, alone, makes your efforts valid and worthwhile.

This. Without Jeffrey I would have had to spend a decade figuring out samadhi. I honestly don't know how the other mystics of history figured it out, without fatefully running into someone like him.

[Jhanananda]

Through it all, Jeffrey, you've connected with a handful of mystics who benefit greatly from your unpacking, from your willingness to engage, and from your persistence in focusing attention on a very basic set of truths related to what should be a universal experience of awakening.  This, alone, makes your efforts valid and worthwhile.

It is so good to hear from you again.

Most folks are too caught-up in hero-worship and legalistic clinging to words on a page to actually live what's being offered here.  It's much easier to argue about who is enlightened and who is not... when essential guidance is staring at us from within the weeds....

Too true, that people tend to obsess over the guy, and the traditional interpretation of his life and teachings, while making no effort at all to live the lifestyle, or walk the talk.

Well I dislike being argumentative,

Good, then just apply yourself to living a moment-to-moment, self-aware contemplative life, because if you do, then how much a fraud I am, or anyone else is, becomes irrelevant.

Now technically speaking, in this sutta he only says that it subsides, which doesn't necessarily imply that it was completely gone. However in other suttas he says that ill-will is a fetter, and that one is only an arahant when all of the ten fetters are completely destroyed.

Yes, and some suttas claim he walked at birth and lotuses bloomed wherever he walked.  And the Gospels say Jesus was born of a virgin, his father was a Nazarite, he walked on water and he raised from the dead.

On the other hand, I was born of an alcoholic whore, my father was an alcoholic atheist, my grandfathers were alcoholic pedophiles.  I am not an alcoholic, I have no addictions, I am not a pedophile, but I can do no magic tricks, other than I regularly turn garbage into fuel:-) and the health of this body is failing fast.  I cannot even drive the 120 miles round trip to forage for food and fuel in one day.  My auto cannot even drive the distance without stopping 2 times to put oil into it. When I work on an auto that was designed by idiots, then I am inclined to swear profusely. And, when I find nearly all ways to communicate my message to fellow contemplatives is blocked by the hegemony, then I am inclined to build a guillotine.

I think that you have made progress with some individuals, and if even one more individual can become enlightened it is worth it.

I keep telling myself that, but every moment not spent totally in absorption (samadhi) is looking like a vast waste of time, and a complete distraction.

This. Without Jeffrey I would have had to spend a decade figuring out samadhi. I honestly don't know how the other mystics of history figured it out, without fatefully running into someone like him.

That is a good point.  I think in most cases there is a hidden mystic, like Shams for Rumi, who passed on the message; after all, how did Teresa of Avila (1515–1582) figure out there were 7 stages of ecstasy after basic devotion?  Ibn al-Arabi (1076-1148) was a Spanish Sufi mystic who wrote about 8 stages of fanah, which was clearly a reference to the 8 stages of ecstasy (samadhi).

I had a number of fellow contemplatives who helped me at key points; however, I do not think any of them, but perhaps Francis, had figured out the whole package.  So, as I can see the end of the road coming up fast, it helps to know a few people have made considerable progress.  It was reading the suttas, and re-translating them that helped me the most to realize I had made it.

[Cal]

So, reading this thread, I continually ask myself, Why were the translations corrupted? Ignorance, promise of monetary gains (greed), or was it something else?

[Jhanananda]

So, reading this thread, I continually ask myself, Why were the translations corrupted? Ignorance, promise of monetary gains (greed), or was it something else?

This is a good question.  Basically there are a number of ways that a religion is co opted:
1) Let us say that you are devout and you have lots of money to spend on the religion of your choice.  You have no attainment, because you are not a rigorous, self-aware, contemplative; so your version of the religion will emphasize devotion.  This might explain Bhikkhu Bhodi.
2)  Let us say that you are the emperor of a large multicultural region.  You want to keep control of the people, so that they keep paying their taxes, and you happen to notice that the biggest business ever in any culture happens to be religion.  So, you hijack all of the religions in your domain, so that you can get a cut.  This might explain Caesar Constantine, King Melinda, and Maharaj Ashoka.

[Jhanon]

It was reading the suttas, and re-translating them that helped me the most to realize I had made it.

You mean that you'd made entry to the stream, or attained arahantship? I ask in order to educate myself regarding a project I might begin  after the other projects are finished.