Psychiatric medicine will never get it

[Jhanananda]

I am not surprised that Much-touted Deep-Brain-Stimulation Treatment for Depression Fails Another Trial.  Psychiatric medicine will never get it, because they are always looking outside at machines and drugs to sell. Too bad deep meditation is never investigated, because it works for my subjects.  However, it does not make any money, which explains why Psychiatric medicine never investigates it.

[bodhimind]

Looking at the picture in which they did it, it feels like the technique of transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) which was also questioned in this article: http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/ethics/brain-hackers-beware-scientist-says-tdcs-has-no-effect

And its previous literature that meta-analyzed and said it was plausible: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/769494

---

It is quite strange how modern science is trying to accept such a treatment now, when just a few decades ago, they were adamantly denying the existence of any kind of electricity in the body until the EEG started showing brainwaves. They were calling it woo-woo a few decades back and Robert Becker (author of http://www.amazon.com/The-Body-Electric-Electromagnetism-Foundation/dp/0688069711) got criticized heavily for doing "crazy" research. Coincidentally, this man has been an advocate for measures against electromagnetic "pollution", because he believes that it affects the human's electromagnetic field.

But I find it comforting that scientists are easing up and talking about meditation being possible: http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1809754 . They're setting up meditation programs and finding that they can be more effective than antidepressants.

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you for your informative reply, bodhimind.

A few years ago I exchanged emails with a Canadian researcher who is a pioneer in transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS).  At that time he was claiming that his "god helmet" would produce samadhi just by wearing it.  My argument back to him was, if he does not study people who meditate deeply, then he will not know whether his machine can duplicate the actual experience of deep meditation (aka samadhi).  I told him then that I had a collection of case histories and subjects, whom he could study.  He was not interested.  Clearly he just wanted to sell his product with wild claims.

Also, I met a researcher at UC San Francisco back about 10 years ago, who put me in an Anechoic chamber with an EEG machine attached to my head, and I meditated for an hour.  He found no correlation between what I experience in meditation, and EEGs, so I believe he dismissed me as a fraud, because I never heard back from him. 

The problem here is I am the only researcher I know who studies people who meditate deeply, and my research is dismissed by academics.  If my EEGs do not exhibit increased alpha, theta and delta waves during my meditation sessions; whereas, researchers who study people who do not meditate deeply and exhibit increased alpha, theta and delta waves during their meditation sessions, then it seems reasonable to me that increased alpha, theta and delta waves during meditation sessions of amateur meditators suggests that those amateur meditators are just snoozing when they should be meditating, and deep meditation states do not alter the brain waves of skilled contemplatives, which suggests the "god helmet" is a fraud.

[Cal]

http://skepdic.com/godhelmet.html led to a person taking a MMPI test. I was curious so I searched around trying to find if I could take this test online. It led me to this...http://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/psychiatry-mental-illness-cures-MMPI-7-meticulous-moral-principles-inquiry-mmpi-2-minnesota-multiphasic-personality-inventory-2.htm

To me, shit like this makes perfect sense. The person who wrote the page on the subject apparently got ahold of how the test was 'scored" and found out that it was a framed testing, much like psychology and psychiatry. The fact that they would use these "results" in a court of law further strengthens my thoughts on how much of a fraud this entire "scientific field" is. Several times I see, not just in this article, everybody has some sort of mental illness... It further begs the question, "then what in the fuck is normal?"

Idiots, all of them.

[Alexander]

When I was growing up I spent several years separating myself mentally from the world of psychology. I had a profound interest in the mind, but I was sure that psychology was a bad to discipline to study. So, in school I ended up picking a major in philosophy instead.

It turns out I was right, as I later found the real science of the inner life in mysticism. However, I also learned that the mystic's experience can never be brought into the public domain. So, for the public at least, psychology is the best it can expect.

These days I am not too hostile to psychology. I certainly see its merits for helping the mentally ill, especially when they're dangerous and have no insight into themselves. That said, I agree, Cal, it is the most doubtful of the sciences, and tries to sell itself daily as authoritative, when it often is not. It also has its own priesthood, which works to protect itself. Having said that, those who are serious about the mind can see through all this, and eventually make their way to a place like here.

[Jhanananda]

Considering that the members here often express that learning to meditate deeply led to a reduction in addictive behavior, and a relative improvement in attitude (excluding Cal), yet, psychiatry offers nothing but a prescription for medication, and psychology offers nothing but lifelong cognitive therapy, I am inclined to agree with Cal.

[Zack]

I enjoy reading some depth psychologists but generally only connect to the work of those that at least had an interest in mysticism, like Jung. There is plenty of insight there though, and I see no reason to write it off, though the meditative process would continue whether one did or not. I just find it increases my rate of awareness. The most direct route to describing psychology is astrology, though.

[Cal]

 

There really has been a dramatic attitude improvement within me as well. I used to be angry, and had a victims mentality. Neither of these apply anymore. (except in regards to psychiatry and psychology) 

I think taking these courses was a bad idea. I only want to argue with the instructor (I dont, I stay quiet) and point out flaws. I think I would be more interested in Philosophy.

I see your point Zack. There is certainly a "shortcut" in coming across something that has already been studied in depth. I struggle with it because I am a devout believer in mysticism.

These scientific fields, in my opinion, work towards disproving what I know to be real. They do so in an aggressive, and invasive fashion. Some of the experiments I'm learning about... It's funny, my current instructor has resorted to using "mind tricks" in the proving of psychology. He'll show us a video that may in fact highlight the limits of normal, cognitive awareness. for example, 10 players line up on a bball court. 5 have white shirts 5 have black shirts. There are 2 balls. They move around intermixing with each other and he then asks us to count the number of times the white shirts throw the ball. Later he rewinds the video and says "Did you see the moonwalking bear?" Sure enough, there was a moonwalking bear, I did see it however, most did not. He used a trick like this, and others, as a sort of "backing", to the "real work" that is being done in the field. I find myself reading alot of academic journals lately. All of them (not an exaggeration) have authors who speak with authority on matters they understand little about. Tell me how someone can understand, and then speak about that understanding, if they have not experienced it themselves? At least in the manner theyre trying to convey, an authoritive one. All of it is relayed in the observation of a perception of a perception. Furthermore, how much did the observee leave out? The absolute underlying problem that I have is they attempt to "conform to" what is broken.

[Zack]

Yeah, the field as a whole can be very aggressive and narrow-minded. My big problem with it is the "framing" (a word I think you've used) and so all the western civilization biases that are packaged along with it, but then that's a problem with language in general:

I am writing (obviously) enclosed in language, aware that language reifies the resistance to reification.  As T.S. Eliot's Sweeney explains, "I've gotta use words when I talk to you."  One can imagine replacing the imprisonment of time with a brilliant present--only by imagining a world without division of labor, without that divorce from nature from which all ideology and authority accrue.  We couldn't live in this world without language and that is just how profoundly we must transform this world.

Words bespeak a sadness; they are used to soak up the emptiness of unbridled time.   We have all had that desire to go further, deeper than words, the feeling of wanting only to be done with all the talk, knowing that being allowed to live coherently erases the need to formulate coherence.

There is a profound truth to the notion that "lovers need no words."   The point is that we must have a world of lovers, a world of the face-to-face, in which even names can be forgotten, a world which knows that enchantment is the opposite of ignorance.  Only a politics that undoes language and time and is thus visionary to the point of voluptuousness has any meaning.

[Zack]

And a letter Jung wrote (emphasis being my favorite line):

To Gustav Schmaltz
30 May 1957
Dear Schmaltz:

I understand your wish very well, but I must tell you at once that it does not fit in with my situation.

I am now getting on at 82 and feel not only the weight of my years and the tiredness this brings, but even more strongly, the need to live in harmony with the inner demands of my old age.

Solitude is for me a fount of healing which makes my life worth living.

Talking is often torment for me, and I need many days of silence to recover from the futility of words.

I have got my marching orders and only look back when there is nothing else to do. This journey is a great adventure in itself, but not one that can be talked about at great length.

What you think of as a few days of spiritual communion would be unendurable for me with anyone, even my closest friends. The rest is silence! This realization comes clearer every day, as the need to communicate dwindles.

Naturally, I would be glad to see you for one afternoon for about two hours, preferably in Kusnacht, my door to the world. Around August 5 would suit me best, as I shall be home at then in any case. Meanwhile, with best greetings,

Yours ever,
Jung.

[Jhanananda]

There really has been a dramatic attitude improvement within me as well. I used to be angry, and had a victims mentality. Neither of these apply anymore. (except in regards to psychiatry and psychology)  ...

I see your point Zack. There is certainly a "shortcut" in coming across something that has already been studied in depth. I struggle with it because I am a devout believer in mysticism.

These scientific fields, in my opinion, work towards disproving what I know to be real. They do so in an aggressive, and invasive fashion. Some of the experiments I'm learning about...

My educational background is mostly in the physical sciences, and what I witnessed is it functions as another religion in that one has to accept the mainstream interpretation of the physical world, and a complete rejection of the immaterial domains, or one does not get the degree.  Other western disciplines, such as: anthropology, psychiatry and psychology function much the same way.

Good to know, Cal, that you have had sufficient experience with the superior fruit of the contemplative life to know it exists; and I can see that you are well on your way, when you see the corruption of the world around us all, but you are dedicated your mystical life. 

Now, every time you feel like you are in hell, and surrounded by demons, then do two things: 1) turn your mind to the charisms; 2) and know that the charisms are the direct experience of the sacred (god). 

When you accept that you are in the presence of the holy spirit; god, shakti, YWHA, Allah (or whatever term floats your boat), then you turn your attention to the highest dimensions, and even if you are surrounded by demons, and even if you see and feel them crawling all over you, and even inside of you; know that they can do nothing to you, but pull your attention from the sacred.  So, if you keep your attention upon the charisms of the sacred, "though you walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, then you will fear no evil."

To Gustav Schmaltz
30 May 1957
Dear Schmaltz:

Solitude is for me a fount of healing which makes my life worth living.

Talking is often torment for me, and I need many days of silence to recover from the futility of words...

Jung.

Thank-you, Zack, for posting the two quotes.  I liked them very much.  I especially like the two lines from Jung (above).  When the world seems to impinge too greatly upon our equanimity, then we must realize, no matter what obstacle is placed before us, we simply must head off into the wilderness to regain our equanimity through solitude, and deep meditation.  This is easier for the mendicant, who has given up everything; than it is for the householder, who has many responsibilities.

Often the best the householder can do is head off into his or her meditation room, asking others in the home to respect your need for peace, quiet and solitude.  There one would meditate as deeply, and as long as one may have to to regain one's equanimity. 

In every home that I had lived in during the 30 years of my contemplative householder lifestyle, I always made sure there was such a space for me, even if it was only a closet, or a shed in the backyard.  I started and ended every day in this meditation space; and often retreated to it after work for about an hour of rest.  Some nights I spent the whole night there in peace, and communion with the sacred.  I am sure if you all do this, then you too will be able to regain your equanimity.

[Alexander]

I think I would be more interested in Philosophy.

Ha, well, it may not be great either; after two years I realized it began and ended with Socrates. Every other philosopher is, at best, dancing around the inner life, but never entering it.

[Jhanananda]

I happen to agree, Alexander, with the exception of the few genuine mystics, who clearly understand a path and belief system (philosophy/dhamma) that leads to liberation and enlightenment.

[panegalli]

I have a question. I take antipsychotic medication and I wonder if I will be able to stop taking it ever. Did any of you ever had any success with interrupting the intake of antipsychotics?

[Jhanananda]

Hello, panegalli.  I am very sorry to hear that you are on psychiatric medications.  Were you misdiagnosed from your meditation experiences?  Or, was your Psychiatric condition a precondition?

We have had numerous dialogs here on with-drawing from Psychiatric meds.  Michel is more expert on the topic than I am.  You could try schizophrenia and the spiritual crisis