Charisms in Taoism

[bodhimind]

I was looking through some documents to do with Taoism today, and found the following gem. I will combine what I've read and adapt it here:

When jing (water element) is transmuted to chi (wind element):

• Feel like top of head is raised
• Dragon's hum and Tiger's roar heard in ears (auditory charism)
• Body floats on clouds and itches all over (hypersensitive phase)
• Sense of boundless bliss (piti/sukha/tactile charism?)
• Spider's web covers face (or) tickling ants swarming over face (hypersensitive phase)
• Continual secretion of saliva which cannot be swallowed in a gulp
• Disinclination to open mouth or move body
• State of indistinctness where body does not seem to exist
• Breathing appears to cease, pulse appears to cease beating
• Golden light manifests when all discriminations stop arising (visual charism?)
• Moonlight appears in forehead, sparks appear between eyebrows
• Able to see internal organs of body, see through walls, see objects in far distance

When chi (wind) is transmuted to shen (spirit):

• Cultivate higher degrees of mind emptiness in the immaterial
• Spiritual awareness becomes unbounded
• Two proficiencies: Yin-body and yang-body. Yin-body is intangible and invisible (probably astral body), and Yang-body is a projected physical, flesh double.

I'm not too sure about the rest of them though, perhaps the more experienced GWV members can comment...

I don't understand how a Yang-body works, does that really work? How can someone project a spiritual, flesh and physical body? It sounds quite "fantastic". On reading on, I saw the following in the "Huang-di-nei-jing" (Yellow Emperor Internal Medicine Classic) when it was referring to the yang-body:

When chi gathers, it forms shape; When chi dissipates, the shape disappears.

[Jhanananda]

When jing (water element) is transmuted to chi (wind element):

• Feel like top of head is raised
• Dragon's hum and Tiger's roar heard in ears (auditory charism)
• Body floats on clouds and itches all over (hypersensitive phase)
• Sense of boundless bliss (piti/sukha/tactile charism?)
• Spider's web covers face (or) tickling ants swarming over face (hypersensitive phase)
• Continual secretion of saliva which cannot be swallowed in a gulp
• Disinclination to open mouth or move body
• State of indistinctness where body does not seem to exist
• Breathing appears to cease, pulse appears to cease beating
• Golden light manifests when all discriminations stop arising (visual charism?)
• Moonlight appears in forehead, sparks appear between eyebrows
• Able to see internal organs of body, see through walls, see objects in far distance

When chi (wind) is transmuted to shen (spirit):

• Cultivate higher degrees of mind emptiness in the immaterial
• Spiritual awareness becomes unbounded
• Two proficiencies: Yin-body and yang-body. Yin-body is intangible and invisible (probably astral body), and Yang-body is a projected physical, flesh double.

I concur with most of this list; however, there is no supporting evidence from our case histories here for a body double.  This is useful supporting evidence otherwise.  What is the source?

[bodhimind]

The first part is cited within this book (The Tao of Bioenergetics: East and West - I uploaded it as a pdf so you can see):

The union of spirit and vitality produces the immortal seed as revealed
by the white light in the heart, light flashing in the head, the dragon's
hum and the tiger's roar in the ears .... 277
Each day while sitting in meditation the practisor should unite the two
pupils (that is draw them together by squinting) to concentrate on and drive
spirit and vitality into the lower tan t'ien (under the navel) in order to
produce and nurture the immortal seed. When the latter is produced the
practisor will feel as if the top of his head is raised; the dragon's hum and
tiger's roar are heard in his ears; his body floats on the clouds and itches all
over; he rises in space and rides on the wind, with an accompanying sense of
boundless bliss. He will then feel as if a spider's web covers his face or
tickling ants swarm over it from his forehead to the bridge of his nose, eye
sockets, cheeks, jaws, teeth and mouth causing continual secretion of saliva
which cannot be swallowed (in one gulp). He is now disinclined to open his
mouth or move his body, thus falling into a state of indistinctness in which
nothing seems to exist, even his own body cannot be found, his breathing
(appears to) stop, his pulses (to) cease beating.278

As well as:

Reveling in the lights and visions of the mind is exciting, but it is not
the end of the process of enlightenment. Instead, the energy is directed
to create the spiritual double. This double is composed of Qi and Shen.
Consciousness is shared with the double and eventually transferred to it.
The system eventually learns to function in the "spiritual realm."

When flowers are seen falling in disorder from the sky, the practisor
should use the method of stirring a thought to jump into the great
emptiness, that he will emerge from the immortal foetus.
When the lights of (essential) nature and (eternal) life unite the foetus will
take the form of the (practisor's) self which is created by the spiritual father
and mother, that is by the positive and negative vitalities in his own body.
In other words, this is the union of his positive and negative spirits which
creates his true spirit which can transform his bodily self into vapor which
then gathers to take shape. This is prenatal vitality in the prenatal state
which in fact is wholly positive vitality, or positive spirit created by the five
kinds of eyes .... and six transcendental powers, which is visible to others, can
speak to them, can pick up objects and has the same features as his own
body. The negative spirit visible to the practisor when he closes his eyes, is
created by (the first) five transcendental powers and is the negative spiritual
breath which can see others but is invisible to them, cannot speak to them
and cannot pick up objects and is, therefore, mortal in the end where his
positive spirit enjoys eternal life and is beyond birth and death .... 2B1
The positive spirit is visible to men whereas the negative spirit (is
invisible to them but) can see them. When the practisor reaches this
stage, if he has not received authentic instructions he will only produce
the negative spirit and will become a seer of the plane of ghosts and
spirits. By the creation of positive spirit is meant the opening of the
heavenly gate (miao men at the top of the head). If the latter is shut the
negative spirit will manifest. The opening of the miao men insures a
realization of the six supernatural powers, the permanence of radiant
heart nature and of the bright light ofvitality.2B2

Finally, the double is created to eventually separate from the physical
body. At the death of the physical body, all of the energy generated is
gathered in the trained spiritual body which can now exist by itself in the
"mid-plane." The object is for the energy, with consciousness, to be .
transferred to another incarnation by choice, not chance, or, to leave the
wheel of incarnations altogether.

Edit: I think the original source is by Yang Jwing-Ming in The Root of Chinese Chi Kung

[bodhimind]

Just to add on another section by Yang Jwing Ming in his book, The Root of Chinese Chi-Kung:

When you have reached the level of regulating your Shen, your Shen will be high and its Ling's supernatural power will be able to reach farther than any ordinary person's. Your mind will then be able to communicate with six natural powers:

A. Seeing the present. Mind is so clear it can analyze and understand events or incidents clearly and thoroughly.

B. Understanding the Past and seeing the future: Your mind is able to understand the past and predict the future, since people remain the same and history repeats itself.

C. Viewing the Universe: You will see the mountains, sky, rivers, oceans, etc. Your Chi and the universe's Chi have united into one and information can be freely exchanged.

D. Hearing the sounds of the Universe: You can listen and understand all of the sounds generated by variations of natural Chi, including wind,rain, waves, etc. You can hear spirits and communicate with them.

E. Seeing a Person's Destiny: After you have experienced all the changes of the natural Chi field, and accumulated all of the past information related to human beings, you will be able to see a person's mind, personality and true nature, and this will let you see his destiny. You will even be able to see his spiritual future, whether it involves enjoyment or suffering.

F. Knowing a Person's Thoughts: Since you have energized your spirit and brain to a highly sensitive state, your brain will be open to a much wider band of wavelengths. You will then be able to match wavelengths with other people's minds and see their thoughts.

Taoist Wuu Jen Ren said: "Return to emptiness to combine with the Tao; after you have reached steadiness and (your spirit is) able to leave (your body), (your spirit is) able to suddenly enter, suddenly leave (your body). Then you are able to communicate with the six or ten (nature powers), and able to transform into thousands of changes and ten thousand variations; nothing cannot be done. This is the stage of Buddhahood and Enlightenment, where you are able to separate your spirit from your body and unite with nature."

Now that sounds as if it was completely from the sutta lol. It corresponds quite well.

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you, bodhimind, for posting the link to this book.  It indeed does support our case histories here.  I had hoped to find such sources in Taoism, but had not yet found them. 

Yes, I agree with your comment that some of what Yang Jwing Ming has to say sounds like it is right out of the suttas.  Some of it also sounds like it is right out of the Yoga Sutras as well.  He might have been influenced by both books.  Too bad Chinese Buddhism does not seem to have any of this content.

[bodhimind]

A few more quotes from a different Taoist book:

When the immortal foetus is nurtured in the middle tan t'ien, the heart is like a lotus leaf which cannot be wetted by water; so the practiser (who has achieved this stage) is at ease, free, comfortable and unconcerned about anything. When the immortal foetus is fully developed, its vitality will manifest before his eyes. Spirit which is now wholly positive can develop vitality with its six transcendental powers and achieves: I, the stoppage of all drain (of generative and vital forces); 2, divine sight; 3, divine hearing; 4, knowledge of past lives; 5, understanding of other minds; and 6, the divine mirror.

Previously when the student began his practice, he had succeeded in stopping the drain of generative force; it is only now that he realises the other five spiritual powers which enable him (a) to see things in heaven, (b) to hear celestial sounds and voices, (c) to know all causes sown in past lives, and (d) to read the minds of others and predict the future, except for ( e) the divine mirror which will remain tied to consciousness if he does not know how to free his heart (the seat of the fire of passion) from worldly attachments. If he gives rise to the thought of seeking immortality to delight in it, the demon will seize the occasion to enter his heart. His discrimination and likes and dislikes will cause demonic states to manifest thereby destroying all his previous progress.

The last paragraph sound a little like the Mara personification that tempted the Buddha.

Without one how can the practiser know when the moment is ripe to push up the immortal foetus to the brain (ni wan)? This sign is the golden light appearing in the bright moonlight that manifests before the practiser's eyes; this is when the foetus should be pushed up. The practiser should immediately drive the golden light into his (essential) nature, and unite negative and positive spirits to sustain it. The positive  spirit is still weak and is like a baby; this is why a method
called 'giving suck' should be used to nurture it. According to this method that which is void (formless) is not really empty for there is in it a golden light; hence it is not void. Simultaneously the original cavity of spirit (tsu ch'iao between and behind the eyes) will emit bright moonlight, and when the two lights unite, the positive spirit which is serene and radiant in the upper tan t'ien (in the brain or
ni wan) will mingle with them to become a vast voidness. This is how to nurture and preserve the whole body (of positive spirit) which is the chief aim of the method of 'giving suck' to the spiritual foetus. When the practiser achieves this, he will be aware of the egress of spirit from the body. This is the ascent of the immortal foetus to the upper tan t'ien in the brain (or ni wan).

This looks interesting because I remember that Jhanananda said that the flowing orbs were the transitory stage.

[Jhanananda]

Yes, these quotes do suggest that someone in that lineage had some genuine attainment, which may not have been the original author, nor the translator.  However, I do not happen to agree with any motivational activity of the mind, like pushing up the "immortal fetus."  In my experience the process is natural, and occurs without any need of the contemplative to do anything, other than remain mindfully self-aware, and leading a disciplined, rigorous, self-aware contemplative life.  I found spiritual openings just occur on their own, if one just shows up regularly to practice deep meditation.

Also, the metaphor of an "immortal fetus" is also problematic, as my experience of spiritual development begins when the attention of the contemplative moves above the 3 lower chakras.  The 3rd chakra is called the "tan t'ien" in Mandarin.

[Cal]

I was looking through some documents to do with Taoism today, and found the following gem. I will combine what I've read and adapt it here:

When jing (water element) is transmuted to chi (wind element):

• Feel like top of head is raised

(The crown chakra)

• Dragon's hum and Tiger's roar heard in ears (auditory charism)
• Body floats on clouds and itches all over (hypersensitive phase)
• Sense of boundless bliss (piti/sukha/tactile charism?)

(I believe this is describing the equanimity in the 3rd Jhana)

• Spider's web covers face (or) tickling ants swarming over face (hypersensitive phase)
• Continual secretion of saliva which cannot be swallowed in a gulp

(My mouth gets rather dry during meditation sits, but i do notice a "popping" in the sinus and mucus will almost flow down the throat)

• Disinclination to open mouth or move body

(Right, if you do so, one would regress in the session)

• State of indistinctness where body does not seem to exist

(4th Jhana)

• Breathing appears to cease, pulse appears to cease beating

(3rd Jhana/ transition to the 4th Jhana)

• Golden light manifests when all discriminations stop arising (visual charism?)

(This is seen in the visual field under the eyelids in the 4th Jhana)

• Moonlight appears in forehead, sparks appear between eyebrows

(This is seen in the 2nd Jhana and also in the 3rd Jhana. The intensity increases in the 3rd and more than just sparkles can appear in the visual field under the eyelids)

• Able to see internal organs of body, see through walls, see objects in far distance

(A faculty of the 3rd jhana, remote viewing)
[/list]

When chi (wind) is transmuted to shen (spirit):

• Cultivate higher degrees of mind emptiness in the immaterial

(I want to say this is describing the repeated OOBE. I say this because it requires a separation from the self. Jhananda has described it as identitfying less with the physical mind and more with the spiritual self. while i have been able to go OOB, I do not remember most of them, but I recognize that I have when I wake mostly due to the level of absorption that is present. So if I wake and I am fully absorbed in the 4th Jhana, I assume that I have went OOB during my sleep cycle. In order to cultivate this and be "aware" during an OOBE it requires further unraveling of the identity, or further identification with the spiritual "mind" as opposed to the physical mind. I can describe this a bit further. Last night during my meditation sit, i became aware of kundalini engery. I made the mistake of "perceveing" this energy, i noticed it, gave a mental sigh of relief to it. My session changed, the tactile sensation changed abruptly from a bliss sensation to heat. My physical mind became aware. Basically I did the opposite of what is being described above.

Quote from: The Tao of Bioenergetics, Pg 105

    Reveling in the lights and visions of the mind is exciting, but it is not
    the end of the process of enlightenment. Instead, the energy is directed
    to create the spiritual double. This double is composed of Qi and Shen.
    Consciousness is shared with the double and eventually transferred to it.
    The system eventually learns to function in the "spiritual realm."

It is described quite nicely here.)

• Spiritual awareness becomes unbounded

(This speaks of the immaterial domains, a higher one at that, 7th or 8th Jhana)

• Two proficiencies: Yin-body and yang-body. Yin-body is intangible and invisible (probably astral body), and Yang-body is a projected physical, flesh double.

(I think this is simply describing a mystic. One who is aware of both the physical and spiritual bodies. Although the "flesh double" I do not understand.)

I'm not too sure about the rest of them though, perhaps the more experienced GWV members can comment...

I don't understand how a Yang-body works, does that really work? How can someone project a spiritual, flesh and physical body? It sounds quite "fantastic". On reading on, I saw the following in the "Huang-di-nei-jing" (Yellow Emperor Internal Medicine Classic) when it was referring to the yang-body:

When chi gathers, it forms shape; When chi dissipates, the shape disappears.

(this is interesting, im unsure, but i think this is describing a method, or practice. To think of chi as a "shape" may be a way of collecting the energy more readily. Yet, you couldnt actually "think" of it as a shape, not congnitively. this is very interesting)

I was reluctant to post on this as im not an authoritative figure here. Please only take this as my interpretation. I did not mean to hijack anything.

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you, Cal, for quoting this from another thread.

[bodhimind]

Yes, these quotes do suggest that someone in that lineage had some genuine attainment, which may not have been the original author, nor the translator.  However, I do not happen to agree with any motivational activity of the mind, like pushing up the "immortal fetus."  In my experience the process is natural, and occurs without any need of the contemplative to do anything, other than remain mindfully self-aware, and leading a disciplined, rigorous, self-aware contemplative life.  I found spiritual openings just occur on their own, if one just shows up regularly to practice deep meditation.

Also, the metaphor of an "immortal fetus" is also problematic, as my experience of spiritual development begins when the attention of the contemplative moves above the 3 lower chakras.  The 3rd chakra is called the "tan t'ien" in Mandarin.

I read in another book that the Taoists have 3 tan t'iens, which correspond to the ajna/third eye chakra (upper tan t'ien), heart chakra (middle tan t'ien) and solar plexus/sacral chakra (lower tan t'ien). I think the author is referring to the middle, which is the heart/4th chakra.

Hmm, I might have to take a closer reading at the text to make sure about whether they are using will. One thing about these Taoist texts is that they tend to make the technique very technical, unlike how we normally 'ride the charisms'. I think, though, that they might have good documentation on the various things that unfold in the mystical experience because the ancient chinese scholars learnt Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism together as a trio.

I was reluctant to post on this as im not an authoritative figure here. Please only take this as my interpretation. I did not mean to hijack anything.

Thank you for the commentary, it helps.

I am not sure about the chi part either, because some people translate certain forms of chi as kundalini (eg. yang chi), and I don't really see how kundalini can form a shape... unless there really is a forming of the immaterial body, which I remember from this thread, Jhanananda already refuted for a better Christian soul concept.

[Jhanananda]

I read in another book that the Taoists have 3 tan t'iens, which correspond to the ajna/third eye chakra (upper tan t'ien), heart chakra (middle tan t'ien) and solar plexus/sacral chakra (lower tan t'ien). I think the author is referring to the middle, which is the heart/4th chakra.

I hope so.

Hmm, I might have to take a closer reading at the text to make sure about whether they are using will. One thing about these Taoist texts is that they tend to make the technique very technical, unlike how we normally 'ride the charisms'.

This is a critical difference; however, it might be due to translation error, just as we have seen in Buddhist texts.

I think, though, that they might have good documentation on the various things that unfold in the mystical experience because the ancient chinese scholars learnt Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism together as a trio.

Actually this historical fact is not a positive, because China embraced Mahayana Buddhism, which developed in Persia.  Mahayana Buddhism simply re-wrote the canon to suit themselves, and dumped the practice of meditation, and the superior fruit it leads to.

I am not sure about the chi part either, because some people translate certain forms of chi as kundalini (eg. yang chi), and I don't really see how kundalini can form a shape... unless there really is a forming of the immaterial body, which I remember from this thread, Jhanananda already refuted for a better Christian soul concept.

The chi of taoism suggests to me the experience of the tactile charism, but I agree that there are overlaps with the concept of the classical kundalini phenomena.

[Alexander]

I am not sure about the chi part either, because some people translate certain forms of chi as kundalini (eg. yang chi), and I don't really see how kundalini can form a shape... unless there really is a forming of the immaterial body, which I remember from this thread, Jhanananda already refuted for a better Christian soul concept.

I remember writing the last sentence of that post and thinking to myself, "wait, if the immaterial body isn't the self, then what is?" I was comfortable with the mind/body not being the self, but not the immaterial body. I missed where Jeffrey clarified and said anatta means non-identification with one's clan/caste, not that there is no soul or self. Funny how one translation error can taint all of one's perspective of Buddhism.

I wrote that post coming at it from the Gurdjieff perspective which was:

Astral body
Mental body
Divine body

It's interesting to use Gurdjieff as an avenue into the contemplative life. He said people by default have the physical body only, and the spirit has to be built up. His perspective lets someone with a secular perspective enter the spiritual life.

I believe Gurdjieff got his "bodies" from Tibetan Buddhism. I also see the rationale, compared with the after-death fates of people you hear about:

Astral body - returns as human with continuity of self
Mental body - angel/deva
Divine body - fully liberated, free movement across all planes

[bodhimind]

Actually this historical fact is not a positive, because China embraced Mahayana Buddhism, which developed in Persia.  Mahayana Buddhism simply re-wrote the canon to suit themselves, and dumped the practice of meditation, and the superior fruit it leads to.

Thank you for the clarification. Would Mahayana be separate from Ch'an/Zen? It seems like Ch'an came from an indian monk known as Bodhidharma. They claim that Bodhidharma is the 28th in patriarchical lineage from Gautama, from the arahant Maha Kassapa.

The chi of taoism suggests to me the experience of the tactile charism, but I agree that there are overlaps with the concept of the classical kundalini phenomena.

Yes, that's the part that confuses me, because firstly they say everything is composed of chi. And then they further divide it into all kinds of chi, like universal chi and human chi. Then within human chi there is original chi (from parents) and post-natal chi (from food and air). Then all the other concepts of jing (essence) and shen (spirit) comes in, it makes the whole thing even more complicated. It might be possible that their concept of 'shen' means the holy spirit, since it is translated as 'spirit'. They differentiate 'shen' from 'hun', which is translated as soul.

I remember writing the last sentence of that post and thinking to myself, "wait, if the immaterial body isn't the self, then what is?" I was comfortable with the mind/body not being the self, but not the immaterial body. I missed where Jeffrey clarified and said anatta means non-identification with one's clan/caste, not that there is no soul or self. Funny how one translation error can taint all of one's perspective of Buddhism.

I wrote that post coming at it from the Gurdjieff perspective which was:

Astral body
Mental body
Divine body

It's interesting to use Gurdjieff as an avenue into the contemplative life. He said people by default have the physical body only, and the spirit has to be built up. His perspective lets someone with a secular perspective enter the spiritual life.

I believe Gurdjieff got his "bodies" from Tibetan Buddhism. I also see the rationale, compared with the after-death fates of people you hear about:

Astral body - returns as human with continuity of self
Mental body - angel/deva
Divine body - fully liberated, free movement across all planes

Oh, that makes a lot of sense, to translate anatta as personality/clan identification. I know the Buddha liked to use negation to discuss nirvana (free from... not this... etc), so it might imply that he did not want to place a label on the 'self', because no matter how one labels it, it becomes a thought/concept instead of direct experience.

I believe Tibetan Buddhism tried to combine yoga with Mahayana Buddhism though, so that is probably why they came up with the bodies. In Hindu yoga they have the following sheaths/kosha, followed by the Atman.

• Physical/food body - Annamaya kosha 
• Energy body - Pranamaya kosha 
• Mental/manas body - Manamaya kosha
• Wisdom/ego body - Vijnanamaya kosha
• Bliss - Anandamaya kosha
• Atman-soul

I do find it interesting how they describe the innermost sheath as bliss-body. I however, do not yet have the direct experience of these kosha so I do not wish to speculate.

[Michel]

I missed where Jeffrey clarified and said anatta means non-identification with one's clan/caste, not that there is no soul or self. Funny how one translation error can taint all of one's perspective of Buddhism.

I think Jhananda was referring to (sakkaya-ditthi), the first fetter, which he interprets as being "narcissism, provincialism, or clan identification."  Anatta is the idea of non-self with reference to the Five Aggregates, which is one of the Three Marks of Existence, which are: impermanence, suffering, and non-self.

Jhananda, is this correct?

We had a discussion on the 1st fetter here: http://fruitofthecontemplativelife.org/forum/index.php/topic,682.0.html

[Michel]

This is what Jhananda wrote on the 1st fetter:

It is interesting to see that you define the first fetter as "Narcissism, provincialism, clan identification." All of the teachings I've come across seem to indicate that the 1st fetter is the belief that the 5 aggregates constitute the self; which is an incorrect view, since the aggregates are in a state of ceaseless change from moment to moment, and therefore there is nothing stable that you can define as having a truly permanent identity. How did you arrive at this definition?

The Pali term 'sakkaya-ditthi' literally refers to sakkaya, which is a clan, Siddhartha Gautama's clan, as he says "I am a Sakkayan.  This is how I got to the first fetter referring to clan identification, which is a part of our identity.