Jay's Online Dream Log

[Zack]

Well, I neglected to say both the balsamic and new moon period are within the 'dark of the moon.' That contributes to the feeling of down-time you describe; the balsamic period just has more of a quality of drifting finality, the new moon a similar mood but inchoate and fresh, with the sense that certain unconscious rhythms have birthed that will come to a crescendo with the full moon, which is like you say, a time of heightened sensitivities.

[jay.validus]

How interesting Zach.  I remember I met a woman once who said she tried to plan out new projects with a new moon.  I am finding that I should allow the rhythms to unfold by the moon, and by doing that I can gain better understanding of what energy rushes through me. 

[bodhimind]

(Hope I don't digress, but just found the topic interesting) I know the planetary bodies definitely have an effect on the matter of our physical bodies, that is for sure. For example, the moon draws waters on our Earth upwards, so if it has such a huge impact, it certainly has a huge impact on our bodies, which are 70% composed of water. Also, solar flares seem to have correlation with health issues and certain patterns in society. I know some yogi traditions highly value the cycles of the moon and the sun. I also find that on certain days, I tend to have more energy and others not as much - perhaps the cyclical hormones do fluctuate along with the cycles of gravitational forces, however "minute" scientists claim them to be. The moon, for one, holds huge significance for me. If it can raise the tides, it can certainly present an effect on any organism on Earth as well.

Do you think that astrology (planetary positions etc) is essential for being a better and more adaptive mystic? I'm pretty much a beginner in all of this, so perhaps you could post a direction on how one can learn more about it, if it is useful?

[Zack]

Personally, I'm not interested in a scientific explanation of why or how it works. I'm not able to sustain that kind of thinking for very long and I find it hard to have many stated beliefs, because in the end, I just don't know. It is something far beyond me.

That said, it is a very worthwhile mystery to immerse yourself in. It doesn't seem to me it's necessary for the mystic lifestyle, but it sure helps. If you want a map to your psychology and interactions with others (among many other things), it is the most direct route, though it can also lead to obsessive navel-gazing. Astrology itself doesn't solve anything, it's simply an approach to awareness. You must then act on what you have become aware of, and I see that as leading in the direction of building a solid ethical core to operate from, and for those up to the challenge (all of us here), the deep meditative & contemplative experience to untangle and shed our entrenched narratives, compulsions, habitual defense mechanisms, and so on.

Sorry jay, you shouldn't have said the word 'moon'! We should probably move this from your personal thread.

[Jhanananda]

Well said, Zack.  While Astrology offers some interesting insights and interpretations, it is likely that little of it was ever developed by mystics.

[jay.validus]

I had an interesting lucid dream last night.  I figured out how to make images clear in my dreams on command.  It was like working a muscle.  I felt very intense pressure in my brow.  Usually this would scare me, but I decided to accept it without fear and pushed forward.  I was directing myself towards people in my life finding them in the dream world.  It was a couple co-workers and I tried to find my combat instructor, although that fell flat.  It seems like my awareness is getting deeper and deeper in my psyche.  I heard the sounds of beautiful high pitched wind-chimes I turned my attention toward.  Near the end I was making the floating/rotation my object of meditation, remembering Jeffery mentioned this in a previous post somewhere on the forums.  It was very interesting, but today I feel exhausted and very out-of-my-body. 

[Jhanananda]

It sounds like you are making progress, Jay.  The intense sensation in your brow was most probably the opening of the 7th chakra, which is also called the third eye.  I recall when it opened for me it was quite intense, almost painful.

[jay.validus]

I am curious over a pattern I have noticed.  I find dream imagery, or even when you observe deeper parts of your subconscious, it seems to communicate in metaphor.  Obviously, right?  I don't just mean in the obvious.  Yes, I have taken notice of the 'knowing' and seen how those contents then translate into something completely random, in some effort to create understanding. 

What has really caught my interest is seeing how this might be more multi-layered than I previous thought.  There could be one layer the subconscious taking a 'knowing' and translating its contents into random imagery, and then another layer doing that same thing with that exact same content, but producing a complete different set of imagery.  Those two different conceptions can then interact with each other, influencing the ultimate experience that waking "I" experiences. 

Let's use a dream as an example.  There was random dream imagery of my elementary gym, my kung fu mates and instructor.  There was even my instructor's teacher, who I have never met, but he had a distinct feel.  I told him I was sorry I was so quiet, and he replied it is alright because he centres himself there too.  It ended with my kung fu instructor telling me about my death... I was punched twice, fell on my stomach, was kicked on my back, and then I was set on fire.  I started to relive this burning, I was terrified to experience the burning of my flesh, and screamed, "Why are you showing me this?"

Now, underneath this dream there was a whole array of memories of a war I fought in the 1800s.  I recall being sent to the next battle, which became my ultimate death as mentioned above.  I ended up flying over this great stone wall in a forest to a platform, where this ball of light entered, I followed suit, and got to the black, but it was very different than all my previous experiences.  It really was nothing, neither perception nor non-perception.  I am not sure it was the 8th Jhana, if I am using Gotama's classification system of absorption, but I did definitely notice a difference from the black in all my previous experiences.  The black it seems infinite but I find I can still centre myself.  Here, I could not even centre myself.  There was no mind activity in this place. 

[Jhanananda]

I am curious over a pattern I have noticed.  I find dream imagery, or even when you observe deeper parts of your subconscious, it seems to communicate in metaphor.  Obviously, right?  I don't just mean in the obvious.  Yes, I have taken notice of the 'knowing' and seen how those contents then translate into something completely random, in some effort to create understanding. 

What has really caught my interest is seeing how this might be more multi-layered than I previous thought.  There could be one layer the subconscious taking a 'knowing' and translating its contents into random imagery, and then another layer doing that same thing with that exact same content, but producing a complete different set of imagery.  Those two different conceptions can then interact with each other, influencing the ultimate experience that waking "I" experiences. 

From my experience there are metaphors and there are actually data acquired in the sleep state.  One just has to learn to decipher those dreams later, which often requires an understanding of the superior fruit of spiritual attainment.  For instance, an OOBE is not a metaphor for anything.  It is an actual experience.

Let's use a dream as an example.  There was random dream imagery of my elementary gym, my kung fu mates and instructor.  There was even my instructor's teacher, who I have never met, but he had a distinct feel.  I told him I was sorry I was so quiet, and he replied it is alright because he centres himself there too.  It ended with my kung fu instructor telling me about my death... I was punched twice, fell on my stomach, was kicked on my back, and then I was set on fire.  I started to relive this burning, I was terrified to experience the burning of my flesh, and screamed, "Why are you showing me this?"

Now, underneath this dream there was a whole array of memories of a war I fought in the 1800s.  I recall being sent to the next battle, which became my ultimate death as mentioned above.  I ended up flying over this great stone wall in a forest to a platform, where this ball of light entered, I followed suit, and got to the black, but it was very different than all my previous experiences. 

While this "dream" sequence may have begun on a metaphorical level, it surely led to a recollection of a previous lifetime, which is not a metaphor, but a recollection of an actual experience.

It really was nothing, neither perception nor non-perception.  I am not sure it was the 8th Jhana, if I am using Gotama's classification system of absorption, but I did definitely notice a difference from the black in all my previous experiences.  The black it seems infinite but I find I can still centre myself.  Here, I could not even centre myself.  There was no mind activity in this place.

This is a good question.  In Sant Matt, they place a none sensory experience between the 4 lower samadhis and the 4 upper samadhis.  This happens to follow my experience. So, I take it as a transitional phase between the 4 lower samadhis and the 4 upper samadhis.

Whereas, the deepest level of samadhi that I have run into is where one becomes the totality of the universe, in which all beings, stars, and galaxies are just cells in one's organism.  I take this as the 8th samadhi.

[jay.validus]

While this "dream" sequence may have begun on a metaphorical level, it surely led to a recollection of a previous lifetime, which is not a metaphor, but a recollection of an actual experience.

Of course it is always the most intense experiences that arise.  It would be nice to have some sort of control, like how I have my memories to this life, but I can shift through them on command.

This is a good question.  In Sant Matt, they place a none sensory experience between the 4 lower samadhis and the 4 upper samadhis.  This happens to follow my experience. So, I take it as a transitional phase between the 4 lower samadhis and the 4 upper samadhis.

Whereas, the deepest level of samadhi that I have run into is where one becomes the totality of the universe, in which all beings, stars, and galaxies are just cells in one's organism.  I take this as the 8th samadhi.

How does one best propel themselves forward when in the transitional phase?  I find there have been so many times in my life where I am laying down and I feel I can get out of my body, but I go to move and my physical arm just moves.  I know I have had some OOB experiences before, but with help and guidance.  Why does it feel like I should know what to do, but as I try to do it nothing works?  How do I move my spiritual body? (I realize that is not really a question that can be answered on here).

[Cal]

While this "dream" sequence may have begun on a metaphorical level, it surely led to a recollection of a previous lifetime, which is not a metaphor, but a recollection of an actual experience.

Of course it is always the most intense experiences that arise.  It would be nice to have some sort of control, like how I have my memories to this life, but I can shift through them on command.

This is a good question.  In Sant Matt, they place a none sensory experience between the 4 lower samadhis and the 4 upper samadhis.  This happens to follow my experience. So, I take it as a transitional phase between the 4 lower samadhis and the 4 upper samadhis.

Whereas, the deepest level of samadhi that I have run into is where one becomes the totality of the universe, in which all beings, stars, and galaxies are just cells in one's organism.  I take this as the 8th samadhi.

How does one best propel themselves forward when in the transitional phase?  I find there have been so many times in my life where I am laying down and I feel I can get out of my body, but I go to move and my physical arm just moves.  I know I have had some OOB experiences before, but with help and guidance.  Why does it feel like I should know what to do, but as I try to do it nothing works?  How do I move my spiritual body? (I realize that is not really a question that can be answered on here).

In my OOBE's there has always been a distinct "pearl" that moves away from me. At first it came with a blue hue from the outer portions of my closed-eyes-view space, that formed a yellow "pearl" in the center of my vision. Both times I have left the body this pearl went away from me into a spiraling tunnel, and somehow i grasped onto it and it took me with.

But, I am also very interested in the response of the Arahants on this matter, although I do not believe it is possible to move the spiritual body outside of the 4th jhana transition to the 5th jhana.

[Jhanananda]

How does one best propel themselves forward when in the transitional phase?  I find there have been so many times in my life where I am laying down and I feel I can get out of my body, but I go to move and my physical arm just moves.  I know I have had some OOB experiences before, but with help and guidance.  Why does it feel like I should know what to do, but as I try to do it nothing works?  How do I move my spiritual body? (I realize that is not really a question that can be answered on here).

This is a difficult question to answer, other than to say, one just moves in the OOBE.  I find it best just to learn to enjoy the moment whatever it is, by surrendering to the moment, then we go deeper.

[jay.validus]

Thanks for the thoughts on this matter you guys.

I am curious, during a series of vivid dreams and OOB's last night, I had the distinct awareness that I was not the only body my 'soul' inhabited.  I could see how this might seem scary to others, but I wasn't. 

Another thing I wanted to point out, I think there is a group of souls I have been meeting on the dream planes for quite some time.  As I was OOB-ing last night, and brought myself far across the Earth to this grouping of row-housing in the snowy wilderness.  I entered one of the buildings and recognized all the people sitting around the table.  I felt like we have been meeting for quite a long while, but I did not remember them.  I was asking for their names, trying to remember them, but as I did my whole reality broke and I came back to my body.  Clearly, using my mind in this state breaks my connection to those planes. 

[Jhanananda]

Yes, as you found, using the cognitive processes while in an OOBE brings it to an end.  So, you will develop skill there over time.

Yes, I too have had the experience of meeting the same group of people over time, and there is more than one group that I meet with.

[bodhimind]

Thanks for the thoughts on this matter you guys.

I am curious, during a series of vivid dreams and OOB's last night, I had the distinct awareness that I was not the only body my 'soul' inhabited.  I could see how this might seem scary to others, but I wasn't. 

Another thing I wanted to point out, I think there is a group of souls I have been meeting on the dream planes for quite some time.  As I was OOB-ing last night, and brought myself far across the Earth to this grouping of row-housing in the snowy wilderness.  I entered one of the buildings and recognized all the people sitting around the table.  I felt like we have been meeting for quite a long while, but I did not remember them.  I was asking for their names, trying to remember them, but as I did my whole reality broke and I came back to my body.  Clearly, using my mind in this state breaks my connection to those planes. 

Interesting... This ties back to the Jewish Kabbalah belief that we are fragments of a huge soul, called Adam Kadmon, translated as "original man". There are also "New-age" mystics that believe we rebirth in clusters (the same individuals each lifetime), just that our roles change. Perhaps that is also why the Hindus believe in Atman and how Atman is exactly the same as Brahman. But of course, the Buddha says that the Deathless is beyond Brahma.

After reading this thread, I realized that perhaps I might have been too cognitive in my OOB experience, which snapped me back to the physical body. If I am not wrong, feeling fear during an experience can also snap someone back. Maybe that is why we wake up in cold sweat after a nightmare.