Understanding Insight and Revelation

[Michel]

Jeffrey, recently I’ve been thinking about your essay Understanding Insight and Revelation where you wrote the following:

In Theravadan Buddhism the priesthood tend to express insight (vipassana) in cognitive and intellectual terms.  The most common misuse of the term insight (vipassana) is to think of it as a cognitive meditation technique or practice strategy (magga), as expressed by the U Bha Kin method of body scanning; the next most common misuse of the term is as the exercise of logic and critical thinking; or finally insight is often incorrectly expressed as reflection upon three concepts, suffering (dukkha), impermanence (anicca) and no self identification (anatta).  However, when one reads the Discourses of the Buddha (Sutta Pitaka) one will see that the Buddha did not refer to insight (vipassana) as a practice strategy, which is 'magga' in Pali.  He referred to insight (vipassana) in terms of an attainment, or fruit (phala) of the contemplative life…

There is a contradiction here with what you have written and the following 3 suttas on the 3 Marks of Existence. The suttas proclaim that the contemplation of the 3 Marks of Existence and the insight gained from them generate the highest “unsurpassed field of merit for the World.”

It is clear to me that these suttas show a “practice strategy as you call it above. I’m sure that those who practice Vipassana Meditation justify the practice based on these 3 suttas.

How would you reconcile this contradiction, Jeffrey? Perhaps the suttas are bogus?

AN 7.16 (6) Impermanence

"Bhikkhus, there are these seven kinds of persons who are
worthy of gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings,
worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit
for the world. What seven?
(1) "Here, bhikkhus, some person dwells contemplating
impermanence in all conditioned phenomena, perceiving
impermanence, experiencing impermanence, constantly, continuously,
and uninterruptedly focusing on it with the mind,
fathoming it with wisdom. With the destruction of the taints,
he has realized for himself with direct knowledge, in this very
life, the taintless liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and
having entered upon it, he dwells in it. This is the first kind of
person worthy of gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings,
worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of
merit for the World.
(2) "Again, some person dwells contemplating impermanence
in all conditioned phenomena, perceiving imperma-
nence, experiencing impermanence, constantly, continuously,
and uninterruptedly focusing on it with the mind, fathoming
it with wisdom. For him the exhaustion of the taints and the
exhaustion of life occur simultaneously.1465 This is the second
kind of person worthy of gifts-----
(3) "Again, bhikkhus, some person dwells contemplating
impermanence in all conditioned phenomena, perceiving
impermanence, experiencing impermanence, constantly, continuously,
and uninterruptedly focusing on it with the mind,
fathoming it with wisdom. With [14] the utter destruction of
the five lower fetters, he becomes an attainer of nibbana in the
interval.1466 This is the third kind of person worthy of gifts___
(4) " . . . With the utter destruction of the five lower fetters,
he becomes an attainer of nibbana upon landing.1467 This is the
fourth kind of person worthy of gifts . . . .
(5) " . . . With the utter destruction of the five lower fetters, he
becomes an attainer of nibbana without exertion.1468 This is the
fifth kind of person worthy of gifts. . . .
(6) " . . . With the utter destruction of the five lower fetters, he
becomes an attainer of nibbana through exertion. This is the
sixth kind of person worthy of gifts . . . .
(7) "Again, bhikkhus, some person dwells contemplating
impermanence in all conditioned phenomena, perceiving
impermanence, experiencing impermanence, constantly, continuously,
and uninterruptedly focusing on it with the mind,
fathoming it with wisdom: With the utte r destruction of the
five lower fetters, he becomes one bound upstream, heading
toward the Akanittha realm.1469 This is the seventh kind of person
worthy of gifts___
''These, bhikkhus, are the seven kinds of persons who are
worthy of gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings,
worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit
for the world."

AN 7.17 (7) Suffering

"Bhikkhus, there are these seven kinds of persons who are
worthy of gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings,
worth'/ of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit
for the world. What seven?
(1) "Here, bhikkhus, some person dwells contemplating
suffering in all conditioned phenomena, perceiving suffering,
experiencing suffering, constantly, continuously, and uninterruptedly
focusing on it with the mind, fathoming it with
wisdom. With the destruction of the taints, he has realized for
himself with direct knowledge, in this very life, the taintless
liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, and having entered
upon it, he dwells in it. This is the first kind of person worthy of
gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings, worthy of rev-,
erential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit for the world."
[The rest as in 7:16, but based on contemplating suffering in
all conditioned phenomena.]

AN 7.18 ( Non-Self

"Bhikkhus, there are these seven kinds of persons who are
worthy of. gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings,
worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit
for the world: What seven? .
(1) "H e re , bhikkhus, some person dwells contemplating
non-self in all phenomena,1471 perceiving non-self, experiencing
non-self, constantly, continuously, and uninterruptedly focusing
on it with the mind, fathoming it with wisdom. With the
destruction of the taints, he has realized for himself with direct
knowledge, in this very life, the taintless liberation of mind,
liberation by wisdom, and having entered upon it, he dwells
in it. This is the first kind of person worthy of gifts, worthy of
hospitality, worthy of offerings, worthy of reverential salutation,
an unsurpassed field of merit for the world."
[The rest as in 7:16, but' based on contemplating non-self in
all phenomena.]

[Jhanananda]

You have to keep in mind translator bias.  I would have to look at the Pali to see if the term 'vipassana.'  My guess is it does not appear anywhere in the text.  If you examine my article, Exposing translator bias in the Translation of the Pali Canon and other Buddhist literature, you will find clear proof of that bias, which is active in most other translations of the Pali Canon.

[Michel]

I read your impressive essay on Exposing translator bias in the Translation of the Pali Canon and other Asian literature and A comparative analysis of 23 translations of Dhammapada Verse 372 I also read it a couple of years ago.
You present some very convincing arguments on the corruption of meaning and wrong choice of word terms used by various authors of parts of the Pali Canon who in most cases maybe non-contemplatives.

I especially like your translation of the Dhammapada Verse 372 and your comments following:

Brooks, Jeffrey S. (Jhanananda):

"There is no ecstasy without wisdom,
There is no wisdom without ecstasy.
Whoever is close to enlightenment
truly has both wisdom and ecstasy.”

Thus this contemplative has rendered what he believes is a more accurate rendering of Dhammapada Verse 372 as above.  Let us not be squeamish in our translations.  Jhana means absorption or ecstasy.  Pañña does not mean ‘insight’ it means wisdom.  And, since this contemplative has found that insight is the source of wisdom and that insight does not arrive without absorption (ecstasy), then he has concluded that one who is close to enlightenment most assuredly has arrived at wisdom, insight and ecstasy.  He has not found that either wisdom or insight can arise without ecstasy nor that ecstasy arises without insight or wisdom.  This also explains why the fourth line was moved into the third position.  If switching the third and fourth lines was not done, then the conclusion would have been that wisdom and ecstasy are optional instead of the two sides of the same “coin”, meaning one comes with the other.

Let us now summarize this effort.  Three of the four dictionaries consulted (Childers, Nyanatiloka and Rhys Davids) recognized the ecstatic quality of jhana, however only this author’s translation of this stanza took that significance into account.  Only three of the 23 translators used ‘insight’ to translate ‘pañña’ whereas 13 translated it as ‘wisdom.’  This effort suggests that translation is highly variable due to the subjective quality of translation.  This suggests also that if we were so fortunate to have 23 translations of the Pali Canon then we would have 23 remarkably different renderings of the Buddha’s words.  Hopefully at least one of those translations would fall close to the mark.

It is very reasonable to consider or suspect that the Pali Canon has been corrupted. It was communicated orally for 300 years after the Buddha’s death, whereupon it was written down. Even what is written in the original Pali could have been added, or some of it omitted, or altered by some monk with an unknown agenda. I think of a guy like Buddhaghoṣa, the 5th-century Indian Theravada Buddhist commentator and scholar, whose work the Visuddhimagga "the Path of Purification," heavily leans towards a dry-insight or a Vipassana Meditation approach to enlightenment, could have had such an agenda. 

[Jhanananda]

Thank-you, Michel, for posting your kind thoughts regarding my translation work, and my critical review of Buddhist doctrine.  Yes, it is distinctly possible that at least some portion of the original Pali Canon might be corrupted, but it is all we have.  However, it is the clearest description of the mystical experience until more recent work.  So, we can only read critically, and expose the corruption wherever we find it, and validate the truth wherever we find it.

[Frederick]

Thanks for posting this. I did not read this till now. However, I had all ready gotten the idea that Jeffrey agreed with this concept:

"So, which vehicle of Buddhism are we going to believe?  Or, should we just chuck the whole lot of dogma into the "shit cart" (Hinayana) and go back to the original discourses?  The later has been my choice, and I believe it is the wisest one."

This is what got me to sign up.

There is so much fear of conflict in some of the Buddhist community, that they won't engage me on this at all. That is, they don't even want to acknowledge the differences in Buddhism nor the fact that those differences might be important to one's enlightenment.

I believe that misinformation causes real harm and thus tolerating it, too much might no be so nice after all.

[Jhanananda]

Thanks for posting this. I did not read this till now. However, I had all ready gotten the idea that Jeffrey agreed with this concept:

"So, which vehicle of Buddhism are we going to believe?  Or, should we just chuck the whole lot of dogma into the "shit cart" (Hinayana) and go back to the original discourses?  The later has been my choice, and I believe it is the wisest one."

This is what got me to sign up.

Good to have you, follinge, in the Great Western Vehicle.  We need people who can think critically.

There is so much fear of conflict in some of the Buddhist community, that they won't engage me on this at all. That is, they don't even want to acknowledge the differences in Buddhism nor the fact that those differences might be important to one's enlightenment.

I believe that misinformation causes real harm and thus tolerating it, too much might no be so nice after all.

Pretty much all mainstream religions are the same, in that: critical reading, critical thinking, critical investigation, and deep meditation are not valued.  This means most mainstream religions depend upon deeply flawed translations to bolster their broken logic.  If that is not enough then the ridicule those who: critically read, critically think, critically investigate their belief systems, and meditate deeply.

While we investigate a cogent and logically true philosophy, and seek intellectual support for our mystical experiences of deep meditation, we do not need to run down mainstream religion.  We just need to define ourselves as different from mainstream religion; because, we follow a cogent and logically true philosophy, and meditate deeply.

[Tad]

I would like to revive this topic for a bit to get more clarification. In my limited understanding, the suttas advocating contemplation of impermanence and suffering might be legitimate. Clearly, contemplation of marks of existence is not insight by itself. However, it seems that it can be used as a healthy practice leading to mind states more conducive to letting go. We know that when we regularly ponder ideas they tend to grow on us. So I think the sutta is talking about it. Whether it should be a formalized practice as in modern vipassana movement or more like spontaneous natural development of contemplative life is another question. But it does not seem to me that the sutta proposes anything against GWV principles. What would be your assessment?

[Jhanananda]

The take home message is whenever the suttas discuss a meditation technique it always has "sati" as a prefix or suffix such as satipatana, anapanasati, mahasatipatana and kayagatisati, which by the way refers to body scanning which some schools of therevadan Buddhism refer to; however,  thoseschools call body scanning 'vipassana' and relevant here is most schools of Buddhism almost never refer to jhana and translate the 8th fold (samma-samadhi) as concentration,  which is so completely wrong that we can be sure those people who do never experienced samma-samadhi.

So we really have to ask a number of challenging questions: if the suttas describe a body scanning technique and never use the term 'vipassana ' in the context of a meditation technique, and call body scanning meditation 'kayagatisati, and the suttas define the 8th fold in terms of jhana, and it is no coincidence that Buddhist schools only refer to the anapanasati and satipatana suttas, which do not refer directly to jhana; whereas,  the 2 other key suttas extensively refer to jhana, then we have to conclude the therevada, vipassana and insight meditation communities are completely clueless regarding the dhamma, and are at best only offering a 7-fold path not 8.

Now what you propose is what is called in the interior life unpacking your belief systems which is fruitful work in a contemplative life.  However,  when the 3 vehicles of Buddhism spend thousands of years marketing lies and demonizing those who teach the truth then we have evidence of a self-serving entrenched priesthood.  What is new about that?  All organized religions have this problem and the devout tend to be naive and not very bright so go on funding the lies and liars. And who is it anyway who come as a mob to burn mystics at the stake or crucify them?  It is of course the devout.

[Alexander]

I agree with Jeff's assessment. You are doing well to go to him for guidance, Tad. 

[Tad]

Hello Alexander!
yes, I have to agree. Jhananda with GWV and this forum is an unparalleled online resource for learning about the path to liberation. I would love to meet Jhananda in person one day. I also really enjoy reading your posts. Please come to this forum more often.

Jhananda,
thank you. I remember reading about unpacking belief system somewhere on GWV or this forum. I will have to some searching to find it and re-read it. If you remember where I should look for by any chance, please let me know. It is absolutely true about priesthood demonizing anyone that disagrees with the mainstream doctrine. For example, I noticed that these days more people are starting to realize that later Buddhist texts contain many distortions. Whenever they voice their opinion they tend to receive lots of attacks from the majority similar like in other religions.


 

[Jhanananda]

Thank you, Tad for expressing your kind support for the community here. As for meeting me one day, I would like very much for that to happen.  We used to run retreats for that but I have been too old and too sick for the last 12 years to sit long in meditation, so I have not been much of a model to follow.  Now I am not expected to live long. 

All along I have aspired to create a self-sustaining community of rigorous, self-aware, fruitful contemplatives who would take over after I am gone, but for some reason people join the forum, get inspired, practice hard, then life happens and they move on.  So, perhaps you, Alexander and/or Rodan will take over, but if so, then it is likely to be soon.

As for your request for a section of this forum where we unpack our belief systems it is Unpacking Religion. In fact this forum section might just explain why the membership of this forum has not progressed, because people may find unpacking their belief systems too challenging, but to understand mysticism we nonetheless have to unpack our belief systems and come to realize all the major religions are lies.

[Alexander]

You have done a phenomenal service, Jeff, creating your YouTube videos, rightly interpreting ancient teachings, and maintaining this forum. You are one of the 'American saints,' as far as I am concerned, and I will celebrate your mahasamadhi.

[Tad]

I would be happy if I could help with maintaining GWV online in any way. As a minimum I can contribute toward financial costs of hosting the website.

[Jhanananda]

Thank you, Alexander and Tad for expressing your kind thoughts and support.  I would like this forum and the GWV website to continue after I am gone, so let us ponder how that can happen.