Recovery from Sexual addiction

[Naman]

How much does sexual interactions interfere with spiritual advancement? In my experience even involuntary passing of semen at night decreases the amount of electrical/kundalini energy in my system, how is sexual relationship any different than involuntary energy expenditure? Except yeah i notice the obsession building up in case of real act !!

[bodhimind]

I don't know about everyone else, but I find any activity has some form of 'draining' effect - like engaging in gossip, lying, ill-will - but sexual activity, particularly masturbation can have a bigger effect than most of them, especially if it is emotionally investing. Also, it involves a bit of letting go into the animal nature (provided you feel like it is as bland as raw gum).

But if I just go into deep meditation, it feels like a recharge after about 2-3 days. I feel what happens is that after ejaculation or sexual activity, there is a hormone produced that makes males very sleepy, and due to the high dose, it upsets the rest of the body system, making it sluggish and dull, so that the body can sleep. I would also imagine that hormones like testosterone drop because of the lack of need to procreate in that span of time.

I would also imagine that any form of sudden high dose of hormones will require the body some time to achieve its natural balance again over the years.

[Jhanananda]

Hello, fiends: Frederick, bodhimind and Naman.  Thank-you very much for contributing to the dialog on this forum, and starting a very interesting thread.

I m very sorry to have to say that I have limited internet access at this time, so it is very difficult for me to keep up with the dialog here at this time.  This situation will change soon.

I have changed the topic title and moved this thread from Mystic seeking mystic to contemplative recovery, because; while it refers to relationship, it is nonetheless more relevant to recovery from addiction and obsessive and compulsive behavior.

I wish to start out by saying that a central concept in this work is to keep in mind that we are spirit beings who are presently encapsulated in an organism’s body.  Understanding this is to understand two things. 1, we are not the body, we just happen to reside in one. 2. The body is an organism, which has its basic needs to be met, or otherwise there will be ill-health.

Old age of this organism, which I reside in, has forced me to realize a number of critical issues, and thus has required me to change a number of premises that I have subscribed to over the decades.

1. All organisms have three basic criteria for survival.  They are: 1. secure a subsistence, 2. Once subsistence has been secured, then it must be defended, 3. Once subsistence has been secured, and defended, then we must acquire a mate, and defend it, reproduce with it, and defend its off spring.  Understanding this will help us all understand human behavior better.

2. Humans are not vegetarian.  They are a territorial, opportunistic forager/predator, which also depend upon fermented matter for healthy gut digestive and elimination.

After many extended periods of celibacy I have found a number of things: 1. Long periods of celibacy can lead to testicular enlargement, which may or may not be a problems. 2. Ejaculation after a long periods of celibacy can result in pain, and emission of blood, which does not seem like a good thing. 3. During a long periods of celibacy there will be natural nocturnal emissions, regardless of how personally transformed one is by one’s contemplative life.

Thus, I have had to conclude that indefinite celibacy is not even possible, nor is it necessarily healthy, nor desirable from the perspective of one who seeks enlightenment in the here and now.

I have also found that complete abstinence from some drugs and alcohol is also not healthy for humans.  As many of you know, after 27 years of complete complete abstinence from some drugs and alcohol I found arthritis, digestion and diabetes depend heavily upon various fermented foods; thus I have had to conclude that regularly consuming beer, wine, and ciders is a beneficial food for humans.

In the last 16 years I have found a great deal of relief from: arthritis, digestive issues, inflammatory conditions and diabetes through moderate, but regular, consumption of: beer, wine, and ciders.  Recently I also experimented with consuming marijuana, and also found additional relief from: arthritis, digestive issues, inflammatory conditions and diabetes.   Thus, I cannot support complete, indefinite abstinence from either fermented beverages, or marijuana. 

However, I am convinced that moderation in the above behaviors is essential for leading a fruitful contemplative life; and moderation is something that few humans exhibit.  Thus, discipline is needed for leading a fruitful contemplative life.  Nonetheless, getting to a fruitful contemplative life may require complete abstinence for an extended period of time, but must be replaced eventually with moderated behavior once one has arrived at a fruitful contemplative life.

Additionally, anyone who is already involved in a relationship is not likely to serve that relationship well, unless abstinence from sex is mutually agreed upon.

[rougeleader115]

Very informative post Jhanananda! So far from my own experience I entirely agree with what you have laid out here. I find your honesty on these subjects absolutely refreshing and true. I am very glad that you are finding relief through means that I don't believe to be necessarily detrimental if taken moderately and alongside a disciplined and blissful contemplative life. I have found these have helped my body in the same ways you describe. But I must add that until I started filtering the  drinking water here at the house a few months ago, I suffered horribly from GERD for almost a year. And twice in the past months when I slacked off for a few days and drank it unfiltered, my symptoms quickly returned and would last a few days after I switched back. It would just feel like my stomach was rotting infinitely and I would go days without eating and was forced to only eat the lightest meals when I could bare it. I'm not exactly sure what or how much is being filtered, but whatever is in it seems to be among the list of things that can make me overwhelmingly ill. The family here switched from bottles watered last year after they watch a documentary on bottled water taking over small communities water sources. I never watched it, but I switched with them to tap without realizing that that's around the time my symptoms began. Just thought I throw it out there if anyone else seems to find something similar. Thanks for the recommendation Jeffrey!

Best wishes,
Rougeleader

[Frederick]

Additionally, anyone who is already involved in a relationship is not likely to serve that relationship well, unless abstinence from sex is mutually agreed upon.

Yes, this will reset my clock!

Once, again, thanks, Jhanananda, for the excellent advice.

I'm going to continue my no fap practice with resets as per above.

That said, it's more about my _relationship_ with sex rather than 100% abstinence. I was actually afraid of the swelling. It's interesting to see that these are true and more! That does scare me.

I'll write more later, but I do feel that my views on women, for example, are more healthy thanks to this no fap experiment.

Also, I don't obsess over it anymore, and I'm more mindful. Also, I deleted 55 GB of porn (all the porn) from my computer. Now I avoid any images that might get me distracted, and I watch my thoughts more diligently.

This, coupled with reducing social media, is really getting me places mentally. Additionally, meditation feels a little easier, and I feel like I have more energy.

I had such a benefit from stopping my binge drinking, I have more hope and energy towards the no fap goal. In the past, it was difficult to even sell me on why such a notion is a good idea.

That said, as Jeffrey said, the middle way is the way to go. For example, last night I had 4 oz of beer. Enough to enjoy it and get the benefits, spoken of above, I hope, but not enough to make me sick. I woke up without a hanger as well.

I'll continue to post updates on my journey as well as read other people's opinions on these and other topics.

[Naman]

Dear Jhanananda, bodhimind & fredrick thank you all for writing out ur valuable view on the matter.

I agree with the moderate path theory totally, but how to go about it if it has already become an obsession for someone. Im asking this not only for myself but my other frnds on the path as well  I had abstained myself from this activity for 2 years, which i felt was necessary because it was a huge obsession, but now that im in a relationship i have to engage in it at times, i feel on the edge many times cause i fear the old obsessions rising back up again.

Imnot sure how to handle this, cause im the one who willingly gets engaged in sexual activity sometimes its natural sometimes it feels forced due to obsession.
Now my question is how to find the balance, idk if i keep doing the activity will i ever find the balance , of course i will keep up with my  meditation practice orr should i abstain from the seuxal activity till the obsession completely disappear.. Is it possible that i let it happen whenever i feel like and keep meditating , the urge or obsession will subside ?

[Jhanananda]

...Now my question is how to find the balance, idk if i keep doing the activity will i ever find the balance , of course i will keep up with my  meditation practice orr should i abstain from the seuxal activity till the obsession completely disappear.. Is it possible that i let it happen whenever i feel like and keep meditating , the urge or obsession will subside ?

You have all brought up some very well thought out responses, which I am sure has helped the lurkers here a great deal.  In answer to these topics, and the above question:

1) You know when you have had too much alcohol the night before, when you wake up with a hangover.  I drink 5oz of red wine, and 12 oz. of beer, every day.  I never get a hangover because it is not enough to cause one.

2) I too drink one cup of coffee every day.  It never causes a headache if I miss my daily coffee.

3) I never get sex, but too much sex could surely lead to problems.

4) I like chocolate, and I add it to my coffee every morning.  It is also unsweatened.

In Asian Buddhism a monk is supposed to eat only once a day; however, he can consume medicine.  So, one of the corruptions of Buddhism is to define chocolate as a medicine.  Then a monk can eat 5lbs of chocolate every day, becoming obese, and not break is fraudulent precepts.

So, how do we use the contemplative life to overcome our addictions?  It is quite simple, and what I did.  I first started meditating every day, in search of depth.  Then, I worked on discipline.  I added disciplines as I could accommodate them.  As I developed depth in meditation, I found discipline became easy. 

This is what I believe is meant by "We know a tree by its fruit."  Someone who has developed depth in a daily meditation practice will be disciplined.  One who has no discipline, does not have much depth in meditation.

[Naman]

Thanks i will try to work it out the way u suggested.

[Frederick]

Dear Jhanananda, bodhimind & fredrick thank you all for writing out ur valuable view on the matter.

I agree with the moderate path theory totally, but how to go about it if it has already become an obsession for someone. Im asking this not only for myself but my other frnds on the path as well  I had abstained myself from this activity for 2 years, which i felt was necessary because it was a huge obsession, but now that im in a relationship i have to engage in it at times, i feel on the edge many times cause i fear the old obsessions rising back up again.

Imnot sure how to handle this, cause im the one who willingly gets engaged in sexual activity sometimes its natural sometimes it feels forced due to obsession.
Now my question is how to find the balance, idk if i keep doing the activity will i ever find the balance , of course i will keep up with my  meditation practice orr should i abstain from the seuxal activity till the obsession completely disappear.. Is it possible that i let it happen whenever i feel like and keep meditating , the urge or obsession will subside ?

My current plan is to be available for my partner but not to initiate anything.

I have found that the urges are actually lies. That is, there's nothing that happens when one does not give in to the urges. The urges don't get bigger and bigger until one explodes. Ultimately, there are other urges that take precedence, and then I forget the sexual urge.

Or I do things not compatible with sexual urge such as exercise.

I'll write up, later, all the things I'm learning from this practice of renunciation.

It's definitely making me want to meditate more which was unexpected.

[Jhanananda]

I'll write up, later, all the things I'm learning from this practice of renunciation.

It's definitely making me want to meditate more which was unexpected.

It sounds like your discipline and meditation practice are paying off.

[Naman]

Dear Jhanananda, bodhimind & fredrick thank you all for writing out ur valuable view on the matter.

I agree with the moderate path theory totally, but how to go about it if it has already become an obsession for someone. Im asking this not only for myself but my other frnds on the path as well  I had abstained myself from this activity for 2 years, which i felt was necessary because it was a huge obsession, but now that im in a relationship i have to engage in it at times, i feel on the edge many times cause i fear the old obsessions rising back up again.

Imnot sure how to handle this, cause im the one who willingly gets engaged in sexual activity sometimes its natural sometimes it feels forced due to obsession.
Now my question is how to find the balance, idk if i keep doing the activity will i ever find the balance , of course i will keep up with my  meditation practice orr should i abstain from the seuxal activity till the obsession completely disappear.. Is it possible that i let it happen whenever i feel like and keep meditating , the urge or obsession will subside ?

My current plan is to be available for my partner but not to initiate anything.

I have found that the urges are actually lies. That is, there's nothing that happens when one does not give in to the urges. The urges don't get bigger and bigger until one explodes. Ultimately, there are other urges that take precedence, and then I forget the sexual urge.

Or I do things not compatible with sexual urge such as exercise.

I'll write up, later, all the things I'm learning from this practice of renunciation.

It's definitely making me want to meditate more which was unexpected.

That sounds good   actually i gave up all sexual activities altogether for 2 years. Now after 2 years i was curious if it matters, to control the urges.

I'll write up, later, all the things I'm learning from this practice of renunciation.

It's definitely making me want to meditate more which was unexpected.

It sounds like your discipline and meditation practice are paying off.

To Jeffrey i wanted to ask, if discplined sex hampers the ability to go to immaterial domains as well ?? How much frequent indulgence do u think is disciplined?
In my experience i have noticed, loss of semen make my meditation dull, because body wud want more sleep... And it takes good 2 days to recover from the dullness.
Any comments on this ?

[Jhanananda]

To Jeffrey i wanted to ask, if discplined sex hampers the ability to go to immaterial domains as well ?? How much frequent indulgence do u think is disciplined?
In my experience i have noticed, loss of semen make my meditation dull, because body wud want more sleep... And it takes good 2 days to recover from the dullness.
Any comments on this ?

That is a good question.  I expect the answer will be different for different people.  The bottom line for most people will be to overcome compulsiveness through leading a contemplative life.  This means both members of a couple would need to have led a fruitful contemplative life.

Back more than 40 years ago I developed lucid dreaming all night long.  At that time I was celibate for about a year.  I found when I was in relationship I did not have compulsiveness, due to having led a fruitful contemplative life; however, those who I was in relationship with generally were always contemplatives, but had not found fruitfulness.  So, they had their own compulsiveness in action. Still I found sex a few times a week would not effect my mindful, self-awareness, nor my meditation.

[Naman]

Thankyou for the great info.

[Jhanananda]

I fasted for 36 hours this weekend and only saw my blood sugar continuing to rise.  So, while fasting might work for some diabetics, it does not seem to work for me.

I have an hypothesis that the reason why my heath has declined so much might be due to too much discipline causing a deterioration in health.  So, moderation in everything sounds like a more sustainable contemplative life.

[Naman]

I wonder whats causing sugar levels to increase :/

I m more inclining towards the "middle path", with mind we may get extreme but it doesn't go very well with the body, either of the extreme.. But the fact that finding balance is actually the most difficult thing out of all the options.

I wanted to ask if ur sexual involvement continued always except that one year of celibacy and of course now? Also that if the sexual urge itself reduces as body grows ? Cause i see so many older people with no less level of urges :/ does it always have to be a fight, to find the balance with sexuality?!