Dying by will

[Naman]

Its well known here in India that advanced  meditators/ mystics can choose to leave body by will. One acquaintance of mine, who happen to be a mystic, recently left his body saying that he doesn't wanna live anymore here, but after sometime he came back in body for assisting some of his disciples. Im not sure for how much amount of "time" he was out but they said his body had multiple organ failure. Which he is rebuilding now himself.
Im not in touch with that mystic nowadays, so i wAnted to ask people on here, if anyone knows the practicality of it ? How does one leave body and not come back? How people achieve that ? Im assuming it requires something more than just being able to pull an obe willfully Or maybe im wrong.

[Jhanananda]

The thing that I have found about most religions is they are driven by myths, and folklore.  So, the claims of the yogi that you described reek or the smell of fish.

Yes, to leave the body, we call it an OOBE.  However, people always come back, until the body is done.  So, I do not buy that any mystic can just drop the body at will and never come back.

[Naman]

Actually theoretically, they say its related to the breath. The amount of breath force u have and how quickly u spend it, that will decide the life span. So by pranayama people learn to slow the breath down and extend the life time or alternatively i think there is one kriya with which u can forcefully spend all the breath force in few breaths only and exit the body. Even in animals its observed that whales and gaint tortoise have less breathing rate and they have much longer life span.
I haven't personally seen anyone doing it but many famous, knwn unkwn incidents i have heard.

[Alexander]

There is a video on Jeff's Youtube where they talk about this you may be interested in, and talk about one of the Christian mystics who did this... the conclusion being he let himself die of hypothermia/exposure while OOB, but didn't do it by an act of will.

[Jhanananda]

Actually theoretically, they say its related to the breath. The amount of breath force u have and how quickly u spend it, that will decide the life span. So by pranayama people learn to slow the breath down and extend the life time or alternatively i think there is one kriya with which u can forcefully spend all the breath force in few breaths only and exit the body. Even in animals its observed that whales and gaint tortoise have less breathing rate and they have much longer life span.
I haven't personally seen anyone doing it but many famous, knwn unkwn incidents i have heard.

The fundamental failure here in logic is that by some cognitive mental exercise, such as: pranayama, or a kriya, one becomes enlightened and empowered.  Whereas, we have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that those schools who are aggressively marketing a cognitive mental exercise have no idea what deep meditation is, nor what the superior attainments are.

There is a video on Jeff's Youtube where they talk about this you may be interested in, and talk about one of the Christian mystics who did this... the conclusion being he let himself die of hypothermia/exposure while OOB, but didn't do it by an act of will.

Thanks, Alexander, that would be Saint Francis of Assisi, who seemed to have born the superior fruit of the contemplative life; whereas, he became quite sickly in his 30s, possibly from too much discipline, from flogging his "donkey" too hard.

Thus we always have to come back to "we know a tree by its fruit."  Clearly the schools who have been aggressively marketing a cognitive mental exercise, have not demonstrated that they have any idea what deep meditation is, nor the superior attainments are.

[Frederick]

Can you please say more about "flogging his donkey"?

I suppose this to mean too much discipline?

I'm wrestling with this concept right now. I have not been disciplined in the past, and all of a sudden, it's getting easier and easier for me.

I guess I'm looking for advice on how to take breaks, etc. I can easily be less disciplined.

[Jhanek]

It is very interesting. Do we have any state description that says one is dead / not dead?

During 4th stage of deep meditation one can stay there with little or no breath, little or no heart actions for long hours. There were cases when the body was not going to be rotten after days or weeks.
Later on one can leave body or meditate even deeper. Leaving the body for many hours is unhealthy. I assume that there is nothing like 'dying by will' but rather possible 'suecide by will' which nobody is deciding for. However one can leave the body taking all his energy out of the body and cutting connection with the body [ new connection cannot be established ]. In that sense the body will be dead.
Prolonging state outside the body probably ends up with dying of the body. How long? Depends on ones strenght, experiences, body condition, connection quality.

My personal view is that while ageing the body connection becomes weaker so it is easier to leave the body being 80 or 90. Any1 can confirm it? In that way one can precise and announce day of leaving the body.

[Jhanananda]

It is very interesting. Do we have any state description that says one is dead / not dead?

During 4th stage of deep meditation one can stay there with little or no breath, little or no heart actions for long hours. There were cases when the body was not going to be rotten after days or weeks.

There are many assumptions made by ever religion, which turn out not to be valid.  Believing that just because one becomes unaware of breath and heart beat, does not mean that the breath and/or heart beat have indeed stopped.  We can only say at this time that when one is in the 4th stage of depth in meditation, then one has become unaware of the sensory domain.

Later on one can leave body or meditate even deeper. Leaving the body for many hours is unhealthy. I assume that there is nothing like 'dying by will' but rather possible 'suecide by will' which nobody is deciding for. However one can leave the body taking all his energy out of the body and cutting connection with the body [ new connection cannot be established ]. In that sense the body will be dead.
Prolonging state outside the body probably ends up with dying of the body. How long? Depends on ones strenght, experiences, body condition, connection quality.

My experience of being out of body all night long for the last 44 years, is there does not seem to be a cause of ill health due to extended OOBEs.

My personal view is that while ageing the body connection becomes weaker so it is easier to leave the body being 80 or 90. Any1 can confirm it? In that way one can precise and announce day of leaving the body.

I will believe it, when I see, or experience, it.

[Jhanek]

There are many assumptions made by ever religion, which turn out not to be valid.  Believing that just because one becomes unaware of breath and heart beat, does not mean that the breath and/or heart beat have indeed stopped.  We can only say at this time that when one is in the 4th stage of depth in meditation, then one has become unaware of the sensory domain.

Once I read about the case story by some monk about laic meditator. Man was in deep meditation, his wife thought he died, she called an ambulance. There was no breath and no heart action, so they tried to bring him back in the hospital. When he had woke up he didn't remember anything nor felt anything. I am looking for the source of this story. Till now 0 prove whether it is true.

[Jhanananda]

There are many such stories, which, upon investigation, typically come from the naive, or someone wanting to bilk the naive out of money.

[Naman]

Now i read a book by a mystic who taught me kriya yoga. The willful dying is like u said, keeping body in such a condition where it will eventually become lifeless while yogi goes out of body.
The extensively used mudra for this is called khechari mudra, where tongue is reversed and used to block breathing passage. Then yogi concentrates on aagya i.e. third eye chakra and leaves body chanting om.

I have heard of other ways as well, which are well known, like Jal Samadhi ( jal means water) where mystic lets their body drown while they go out of body. There are more ways i cant recall name of at the moment.

So I was contemplating abt this topic today and yes i do agree that its actually a way to let ur body rather than doing something which reduces ur destined life span willfully.

[Jhanananda]

Now i read a book by a mystic who taught me kriya yoga. The willful dying is like u said, keeping body in such a condition where it will eventually become lifeless while yogi goes out of body.
The extensively used mudra for this is called khechari mudra, where tongue is reversed and used to block breathing passage. Then yogi concentrates on aagya i.e. third eye chakra and leaves body chanting om.

I have heard of other ways as well, which are well known, like Jal Samadhi ( jal means water) where mystic lets their body drown while they go out of body. There are more ways i cant recall name of at the moment.

This is all too cognitive and methodical for someone who has actually learned to meditate deeply.  When one learns to meditate deeply, one learns to meditate with complete abandon to the point of not caring whether one dies or not.  When the meditation session comes to an end, and one finds oneself back in the body, then one goes about one's day until the next session of deep meditation.

[Frederick]

There are many assumptions made by ever religion, which turn out not to be valid.  Believing that just because one becomes unaware of breath and heart beat, does not mean that the breath and/or heart beat have indeed stopped.  We can only say at this time that when one is in the 4th stage of depth in meditation, then one has become unaware of the sensory domain.

Once I read about the case story by some monk about laic meditator. Man was in deep meditation, his wife thought he died, she called an ambulance. There was no breath and no heart action, so they tried to bring him back in the hospital. When he had woke up he didn't remember anything nor felt anything. I am looking for the source of this story. Till now 0 prove whether it is true.

Not sure about this, but the story says that he "remembered nothing". Seems like a blank of his mind which I believe is "wrong meditation"?

I didn't think the goal was ever to blank out one's mind completely. Seems like you could just get blackout drunk.

[Jhanananda]

The story sounds like more myth than reality.

[Jhanek]

The story sounds like more myth than reality.

I thought it was in U Pandita's book, but it is from Ajahn Chah's still forest, but not from english version(this one i do not know yet).