The bleakness of repeating life lessons until you “get it right”

[Alexander]

It's been kind of quiet here so I thought I would share some dialogues I've been having elsewhere, or some clippings from Alexandria, on interesting topics. Here was one from recently.

The bleakness of repeating life lessons until you “get it right”

I guess I just don’t see the point of everything. We are apparently here to learn about the important things like love and forgiveness. According to some we even pre-plan the challenges we will face in each lifetime. The majority consensus seems to be that suicide is not a “real” solution, because you will always come back to learn the same lessons that you escaped by killing yourself. If a person chooses to end his or her life, they are punished with more reincarnations of the same challenges - sometimes with added karma - so in theory you will be born again into another life that is even more miserable, which will also drive you to suicide, unless you tough it out - and just live until your body breaks down.

How could anybody learn their “life lessons” under these conditions? If the very thing that drives you to suicide is the lesson that you can’t learn, are you just doomed to live miserable life after miserable life until you finally “get it” by accident in one of these reincarnations?

I’ve been pondering this one myself 🤔I mean the physical realm is certainly ‘extremely difficult,’ ‘dangerous,’ and carries ‘high risk of injury.’ Think even just of all the stress of the past year 2020-21.

Do we gain wisdom through adversity? Hm I definitely can say that all my difficulties thus far have made me wiser and greater. Could I have achieved these ends without the challenges? Hm, so I guess that is a part of it.

However, then we have the question of - why return over and over? Once we obtain wisdom or completion, why not remain in the nonphysical after this life?

Perhaps that is the conclusion of spiritual masters; John of the Cross, Socrates, the Buddha... they are done and don’t come back again. Except perhaps sometimes to help others. It could be in comparison to them we are like fools, going in circles, not learning anything.

I think on one level it may be a path as they say of ‘self-realization.’ As what are we...?

Before this physical universe existed, ‘before’ the nonphysical cosmos, we were all One, united in complete incomprehensible singularity.

Then, we willed that all this be. That existence exist. And out emanated everything. Countless universes, worlds, beings. The One being split into an apparently infinite number of distinct individuals.

Perhaps wisdom is realizing this. That we are all one, come from this source, and back to it we return... We emanate out, experience the cosmos, experiment, suffer, learn, and play, then return to the source again.

That source is infinite and timeless... one exists there and one transcends existing. It is the incomprehensible divinity that spawns everything...

😂Best guess at it.

[Jhanananda]

Thanks, Alexander, for starting an interesting dialog.  Being terminally ill I have had to become obsessed with solving the question of why has my life taken a steep decline in the last 10 years.  The naive explanation would be that the infinite creator god is punishing me for being sinful. However, if that was the case then why do I have many of the sweet charisms of direct communion with the sacred? And, why when I commune so intimately with the sacred that the sacred doesn't tell me of my "sins" to correct?

My explanation on the big picture is my health problems are not a punishment from an infinite creator god.  They are do to material existence on a planet going through a protracted industrial revolution which is resulting in global levels of air pollution that is killing us all slowly, and has nothing to do with divine will.

This means the suffering of other might be due to unwise choices driven by craving and covetousness (tanha), or it might just be due to physical existence is filled with various kinds of suffering (dukha). Remember the 4 noble truths is all about this realization that physical life is full of suffering, and our suffering is exacerbated by our craving and covetousness (tanha).

But, remember the 4 noble truths ends with a solution to our craving, which is following the Noble Eightfold Path. However, we must realize as long as we are in physical existence suffering (dukha) will continue to be experience, because suffering (dukha) is a property of the physical existence.

And, since suicide was brought up, until we have been fully enlightened by following the Noble Eightfold Path to completely traverse all 8 stages of samadhi to full liberation (nirvana), and mastering them, then our craving and covetousness (tanha) will continue to propel us back to physical existence, where we will experience suffering (dukha).

I do have to post a disclaimer:
If anyone finds flaws in my above argument or my spelling please realize I am terminally ill (dukha), quite old, and I recognize significant loss of memory, so please excuse the decline of sickness and old-age (dukha) because it is inevitable for all who take birth in the physical domain.

[Alexander]

Very good post as usual, Jeff, and I hope your body is not causing you too much affliction. As you know I have also been suffering myself the past year following the chemical exposure. It is not a pleasant experience.

If I can I will share more here as they arise and save your responses... but I feel I have already preserved some of the best ones you've made over the years.

Om Namah Shivaya