Beginning inconceivable?

[Tad]

Dear mystics,

we can see in the suttas that Buddha described the beginning of our wandering in this seemingly never ending cycle of birth and death as inconceivable. In another instance in the suttas, when asked a direct question about the beginning of the world, he refused to answer. Some people claim that ignorance has no beginning, which goes against elementary logic. If no beginning, then there is no way to end it. Some people say that even the Buddha could not see the beginning. What do you think about this topic from your experience? Is the beginning even worth investigating?

BTW, this is my first post. I am humbled to join this forum. Thank you for your contributions. There is so much wisdom here. My goal is to read everything and catch up with you, but it will take time...


SN 15.10 (Translation by Sujato)

“Mendicants, transmigration has no known beginning. … One person roaming and transmigrating for an eon would amass a heap of bones the size of this Mount Vepulla, if they were gathered together and not lost.

Why is that? Transmigration has no known beginning. … This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.”

That is what the Buddha said. Then the Holy One, the Teacher, went on to say:

“If the bones of a single person
for a single eon were gathered up,
they’d make a pile the size of a mountain:
so said the great hermit.

And this is declared to be
as huge as Mount Vepulla,
higher than the Vulture’s Peak
in the Magadhan mountain range.

But then, with right understanding,
a person sees the noble truths—
suffering, suffering’s origin,
suffering’s transcendence,
and the noble eightfold path
that leads to the stilling of suffering.

After roaming on seven times at most,
that person
makes an end of suffering,
with the ending of all fetters.”

[Jhanananda]

Welcome, Tad, and thank-you for posting your inquiry. I happen to be a retired research scientist having done post graduate research in astronomy, organic chemistry, anthropology and archaeology. Astronomy and geology have developed an hypothesis of deep time for the earth and the physical universe on the level of billions of years with many extinction events in the geological record. So, we can call that beginninglessness on the level of human time scales.

When I was about 22 I sat my first 10-day vipassana meditation retreat, which was led by Robert Hover.  During that retreat I had many recollections of past lifetimes going further back in time. On about the 7th or 8th day I saw the progression of my lifetimes leading back abut 50,000 years to Neanderthal. In my recollections I was a mystic in most of my previous lifetimes. I came to realize that some people return to physical existence for the benefit of bringing others to enlightenment.  These people are called by many names in religion.  Boddhisatva is one of those names.

My conclusion is the physical universe is beyond comprehension for its size and duration. While planets, stars and galaxies come and go, the universe continues without beginning or end. People take birth for various reasons. For most it is craving that drives them in endless rebirths.  For other they keep coming back to bring a few souls to fruition.

[Tad]

Thank you for the answer.

Do you think in theory it is possible to end the material world altogether if all beings awaken?

BTW, I really appreciate you sharing your experiences on insight into your previous lives. There are teachers out there who appear wise but teach Buddhism without rebirth. I recently considered what practice would be without believing in rebirth, and I concluded that it would lose a lot of depth. 

[Jhanananda]

I do not think any belief system is necessary to follow a contemplative life to fruition; however, those who get to the 5th stage of samadhi will be traveling out-of-body, and for me that included moving through space time to the deep past and deep future, which led to me seeing my previous lifetimes.

More important to embracing a belief in rebirth is accepting altered states of consciousness are the result of correctly meditating. So, anyone who teaches meditation and does not teach an understanding of the altered states of consciousness that correct meditation practice leads to is simply evidence that the person teaching meditation is an amateur, and considering that most meditation teachers, and Buddhist priests either say nothing about jhana, or claim it is dispensable are clearly not teaching Buddhism, but at best a 7 fold path.

I do not subscribe to the idea that eventually all humans could be enlightened at the same time. Archaeology has found evidence of anatomically modern humans present on earth for 250,000 years, and neanderthal here longer, and global mass extinctions occur in cycles, so those who are wise will seek enlightenment. Most people demonstrate a profound lack of wisdom, so it is unlikely that all humans will ever become enlightened.