Author Topic: Foundation of mysticism in Islam  (Read 4092 times)

Jhanananda

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Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« on: July 04, 2021, 12:18:11 PM »
Foundation of mysticism in Islam or Where Buddhism and Islam meet

The irony is in the Pali Canon the eighth fold of the noble eightfold path is defined by the Pali term 'jhana', the eighth fold is called 'sama-samadhi,' and in the Pali Canon it is defined in 8 stages. However, jhana has been demonized by the three vehicles of Buddhism for about 2,000 years.

Some time shortly before Mohamed came on the scene in Arabia a Buddhist monk in Sri Lanka revived the term jhana and was at that time the leader of the main Buddhist temple there. The other Buddhist monks were enraged and rose up in a riot and killed this monk and his followers.

Now where it gets interesting is Mohamed defined something that is commonly translated as "the eight gates of Islam." The term used is Janna, and it is where we got the idea of the genie in Aladdin's lamp. And, we should keep in mind the Arabic term 'Islam' means 'to submit'. I take this in the same context that Buddhism uses 'refuge.'

While Islam has had it out for Buddhism since shortly after Mohamed died; nonetheless, this forms a pretty good argument that Mohamed had revived a core concept of Buddhism that Buddhism has lost track of, and so has Islam.
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Alexander

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Re: Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2021, 01:52:02 AM »
What do you think of Mohammed's reference, Jeff, to the "seven" heavens?
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Jhanananda

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Re: Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2021, 11:55:24 AM »
What do you think of Mohammed's reference, Jeff, to the "seven" heavens?
Do you have a quote?
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Alexander

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Re: Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2021, 07:01:50 PM »
I have been reading a bit of the Koran recently... it is the only religious scripture (Bhagavad Gita, Suttas, Old Testament, New Testament) I have never read. When I studied Islam 10 years ago I only read Rumi and the Sufis, never the Koran itself. Here are some references to the "seven heavens," which is close to the eight jhanas, which is an interesting comparison.

Quote
65:12
Allah is He Who created seven heavens, and their like of earth. The command descends through them, so that you may know that Allah is Capable of everything, and that Allah Encompasses everything in knowledge.
Quote
71:15
Do you not realize that Allah created seven heavens in layers?
Quote
41:12
So He completed them as seven universes in two days, and He assigned to each universe its laws. And We decorated the lower uni-verse with lamps, and for protection. That is the design of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.
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Jhanananda

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Re: Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2021, 11:22:53 AM »
Thank you, Alexander, for doing som home work on this part of Islamic mysticism.  I really appreciate the quotes.  I should do this for the 8 gates of Islam.

In Koran 65:12 I find it interesting that it is written that the heavens (pardis/paradise) are like earth, so we would interpret these domains as believed to be material in nature, and not necessarily immaterial. So, we should ask whether we are even discussing the same subject.

In my experience in the immaterial domains begin in apparently material domains, but I know that they are simply an illusion due to the subject retaining the habit of a physical body and the material world.

In Koran 71:15 I do like the reference to the 7 heavens are in layers, beause that was my exprienec of the immaterial domains.

and in surya 41:12 these layers of paradise are whole universes.  Again this has been my experience of the immaterial domains that on their level they appear as infinite, and they do have something like "laws" that "rule" their existence.

I am not sure of the reference in this surya to "lamps." It reminds me of Aladdin's lamps which comes from the Thousand and One Arabian Nights, which comes from the Thousand and One Nights or Scheherazade, whi was a wife of a the Kalif Shahryār.  Wiki has a prety good discussion of this Anciant Islamic collection of stories.
Quote from: wiki
One Thousand and One Nights (Arabic: أَلْفُ لَيْلَةٍ وَلَيْلَةٌ‎, ʾAlf Laylah wa-Laylah)[1] is a collection of Middle Eastern folk tales compiled in Arabic during the Islamic Golden Age. It is often known in English as the Arabian Nights, from the first English-language edition (c. 1706–1721), which rendered the title as The Arabian Nights' Entertainment.[2]

The work was collected over many centuries by various authors, translators, and scholars across West, Central and South Asia, and North Africa. Some tales themselves trace their roots back to ancient and medieval Arabic, Egyptian, Indian, Persian, and Mesopotamian[3] folklore and literature. In particular, many tales were originally folk stories from the Abbasid and Mamluk eras, while others, especially the frame story, are most probably drawn from the Pahlavi Persian work Hezār Afsān (Persian: هزار افسان‎, lit. A Thousand Tales), which in turn relied partly on Indian elements.
If our audiance recalls, Aladdin's lamp is a magical oil lamp that when rubbed causes a spirit to coe out and grant the wishes of the one who stroked it. So, it is a reference to spirit beings.  Traditionally in Islam and many other cultures references to spirits is terrifying and reminds me of how Asian Buddhists refer to kasina, which to them are ghosts that are represented as sherical lights, and they are treated with a great deal of fear.

In my experience of traveling out of body the beings I encounter are disembodied, but in most cases in the lower domains they are people who are asleep and dreaming, but some of these beings are arguably dead.  These interactions can become quite negative and therefore frightening when the contemplative becomes self-aware, which can trigger a violent reaction from the others in that domain.  It should serve as a reminder to the contempaltive that one should move to higher domains where one will find one is welcome.
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Alexander

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Re: Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2021, 07:49:36 PM »
Very interesting post, Jeff. I wonder have you ever thought of compiling your adventures in the spirit in a book? I think of Bob Monroe who wrote on his OOBEs.

I know we have not been so active here for some time... I have been trying to find some articles or dialogues to post. But, we've covered so much over the years already. :)
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Jhanananda

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Re: Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2021, 12:08:38 PM »
Yes, I have considered compiling my spirit world experiences into a book.  I used to keep journals on them and I have at least one full case of journals, maybe 2.  However, my life has had to be focused upon my health for the last 20 years, and my focus has to have been focused more and more over that time, until it became a full-time endeavor after my COPD diagnosis 3 years ago, which out of necessity became a research project into air quality and air scrubber technology to remove the full spectrum of air pollution.  It was not until a little over a year ago that I finally had developed a complete solution for dealing with my health problems, and I see how the community of people suffering from a wide range of chronic illnesses could benefit from my research, so that is now my focus, but I am right now broken down on the street with a serious auto repair that is over my head to fix at the curb.  I have a retired mechanic friend coming to my rescue in a few days, and hopefully we will be able to resusitate my 31 year old motorhome, then I will have to focus on settling in at the ranch I have moved to, which has been a protracted effort that pushes me to my maximum capacity on a daily basis, and will hopefully come to an end soon, so I can put my attention on these other subjects.
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Rodan

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Re: The astral body condition and OOBE visitors
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2021, 08:35:05 AM »
I was educated on something new today. I was always under the impression in Islam that they do not have what the rest of the world refers to as 'ghosts' ie the deceased roaming around as spirits. The lore is, that you die and then face preliminary judgement in the grave before the end of the world and the final judgement. I was sent this passage from the book "The Islamic understanding of death and resurrection." I have attached the image to a url to imgur, an image file hosting website as the file is too large to attach to the post. https://i.imgur.com/1rnHGmi.png

The summary of this passage is that those who die are divided into various tiers depending on their spiritual level and those who've lead 'good' lives or those who've lead spiritual lives like Prophets and Saints have freedom of movement to stay on earth or travel higher. Those who are punished are forced to remain on earth either in the grave or perhaps even in a moon crater like you've described Jhanananda. The fact that you and others have seen tormented souls outside of their graves suggest they can still roam about but have limited freedom.

This is an interesting case of the mainstream priesthood within Islam like in other religions hiding the subtly of the after life and the access one may have to other worlds even while alive. I don't believe it's ever explicitly stated that you cannot leave your grave in Islam but this piece of knowledge seems to be purposely suppressed.


Jhanananda

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Re: Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2021, 12:32:35 PM »
Thank you, Rodan, for contributing a significant aspect of the dialog here. Please note I split your comment off from your thread on OOBEs and added it to this thread on Islam.

While I have direct experience in the OOBE of people clinging to their dead body after death this has certainly not been a common experience. More common is the person enters their common dream state of residing in a domain of reference with others who are either dead or asleep. This is consistent with some tribal societies use of terms that translate as when someone dies they "enter their dreams."  Here, for the fruitful contemplative who develops mastery of the OOBE they are not compelled to remain close to the earth plane upon death to enter the commonly held dream-scape but travel into higher domains.

What interests me the most is how jhana has been demonized in Buddhism and how Jannah has been demonized in Islam. If you examine the link you will find a larger discussion on this topic. It is clear to me in the Koran Mohamed had a similar understanding of Jannah that Siddhartha Gautama had for the term jhana. But the priesthood of both religions have completely misunderstood these critical concepts.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 12:35:44 PM by Jhanananda »
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Rodan

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Re: Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2022, 10:46:09 AM »
As I've been looking more into Islamic and Abrahamic cosmology I'm learning so much of what is hidden or ignored by lay preachers/priests of all the respective religion. Islam seems to recognize the astral planes as well as divided into three major categories  The first and highest being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alam_al_Jabarut then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malakut which is what we know as the lower astral planes and then the physical realm -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alam_al_Mulk
The way they describe the realm of Malakut also recognizes the dream like state of the astral world as well.
Quote
The realm called Al Malakut or Alam al Mithal (translated as imaginal realm) terms the concept of a realm where all ideas, thoughts and actions are manifested, including supernatural experiences,[5]

I've attached a screenshotted excerpt from "Islam, Arabs, and the intelligent world of the Jinn" by Amira El-Zein and uploaded to imgur here https://i.imgur.com/9FrKG2O.png It's interesting that these earths are separated by 700 hundred years apart. It tells me this is a way of illustrating how far these astral realms are not just in distance but time. It makes me think that is why journeys into the dream world or astral always feel like a distant memory for non-contemplatives. One does not forget an experience so readily if it happened to them one second ago in the waking world but it can happen so easily when waking from a dream.

The amount of I've learned in the last few months has taught me there is very little to trust in most modern lay preachers/priests in all religions as they seem to hide the nature of reality or are shamelessly ignorant. When I've spoken with muslims on this topic they act as if it's some foolish fairytale or that it's a heterodox and non-islamic concept, but this cosmology is cited and supported by their own classical and orthodox priests from hundreds of years ago and ancient contemporaries during the faith's beginning!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 10:48:28 AM by Rodan »

Jhanananda

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Re: Foundation of mysticism in Islam
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2022, 01:08:27 PM »
Thank you, Rodan, this is excellent research.  I have often pondered where in Islamic literature is more details on the Jinn, which is how the term "jhana" is pronounced in Arabic. We do not have a lot of description of the out-of-body experience (ayatans) in the Pali canon either, so we looked to the mystics of later years for more content this is why I quote from the major mystics, and still there is not a lot of detail.  The thing we have to watch out for in this subject is the intellectuals who are not mystics who attempt to interpret these domains and phenomena for us, and that taint is what I see in some of this content.

I don't really buy there are 7 earths separated by 700 years. First problem is it is too formulaic, but I could buy there might be about 700 years between incarnations of major mystics.  The time period almost fits the temporal distance between these major mystics, but I still have a problem with this assumption, because it is too precise a figure for an imprecise approximation between major mystics. But, good work we have the immaterial domains more fleshed out in Islam.
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