Some interesting dialogues I saved

[Alexander]

Might make some interesting reads

Lynx wrote:
Pretty sure we all can agree, that most dreams are real in some sort of fashion, could be in another dimension or reality.

When someone from this lifetime passes over, they’re technically not dead, it’s only their physical form that’s gone. Some choose to stay in this reality (ghosts), some choose to move on to a different dimension but are still able to connect to other dimensions (something similar to what we all are going through now. Simply when we sleep, we can enter another reality that feels as real as the physical world…same situation when we die.. we’re just entering another reality that’s just as real as the previous one) , and some choose to move on as a different being (cat, turtle, alien, etc) ….

For those that have moved on into spirit form from this dimension to another and wanted to get back in touch with someone specific.. would they be able to use another form on consciousness (let’s say a medium in their dimension/reality) and communicate with our subconscious via dreams?

Same thing if it’s backwards, if we wanted to contact someone who’s not physically in our reality.. we contact a medium and bring their consciousness/subconscious through to communicate with us.

Alexander “Shivaswara” wrote:
Here is my best explanation from what I have read / studied / experienced / speculated on. Of course, we are talking about the most profound and mystical metaphysical topics here, so we’ll try to have some humility about it!

1 When we sleep, consciousness goes out partly into the nonphysical domain. This happens to EVERYONE, literally all humans and it seems animals too. But, we have a very low level of awareness. This is the “dream” world which gets mixed in with many other impressions and fantasies and images.

2 The nonphysical I would guess is a spectrum that goes like this:

Dream (lowest level) —-> lucid dream (more aware) —-> OOBE (usually said to be as real as waking reality, or even “hyper-real”)

3 Presumably your MAIN awareness is always grounded in the “lowest” domain you are located in. So really we are multidimensional beings that simultaneously exist on the higher planes. But while we are here those higher locs are “asleep.” SO the only way to get real full awareness in those higher planes is accessed upon death when your lowest domain goes up to the nonphysical level.

4 If you’re here, you have to follow the rules of physics / this reality - but the best way to interact with the living would be, yes, through a dream.

5 At the same time, it would be an imperfect tool for communication, as it would be mixed in with the usual fantasies / images / randomness of the dream world. And, there is the added issue of the person you are contacting forgetting / not remembering what you communicated. So, it would often at best leave the general impression behind with them.

(The fact this would be the best means of communication does fascinate me. It respects the general rules of this world and leaves enough doubt to keep the physical person guessing.)

*Bonus: this whole conversation makes me think of what Jung said about the “collective unconscious.” Perhaps the dream scape is a part of that: the source of all the images / fantasies...

It sounds like you are making excellent progress. This is the supreme spiritual stuff! Great work, and wish you all the best. <3

A questioner wrote:
I have seen Dr. Ian Stevenson's studies and all the verified cases. And evidence in general UVA has. But why is it being criticized and dismissed by people? Is the evidence outdated or disproven? Please let me know.

Alexander “Shivaswara” wrote:
In this world we are in, humans are trapped in a kind of "agnostic" state. This means as long as we are here, many of the great debates - is there a soul? is there reincarnation? etc - cannot be answered verifiably. This is on purpose: it makes the world more interesting.

There is a path out of this, but it requires the individual to build a sincere and dedicated desire to learn the truth about these questions (spiritual quest). This ends up resulting in a reorientation of the individual's whole life. It results in personal transformation after years of work.

Someone on this path develops an understanding there exists a different kind of knowledge (esoteric knowledge) relative to the kind we engage with every day. It turns out there are people who do understand these things. They try every day to communicate what they know. But, their knowledge gets mixed in with everyday knowledge (exoteric knowledge) and becomes indistinguishable from it. Thus, our goal is to discern this knowledge and collect a whole of it within ourselves.

So, do not make a quest for yourself to prove this or prove that; do not worry about what the masses of people believe. Focus on what you can understand yourself.

A questioner wrote:
“God is Dead.” (The Gay Science)

What people think it means:
This quote might be interpreted as a proclamation of atheism.

What it actually means:
Nietzsche presented this phrase as being new information for a group of atheists. So it’s not just a statement about atheism.

In this section of The Gay Science, Nietzsche discusses how many of the underpinnings of Western society, particularly our moral philosophy, implicitly rely on the concept of God. With the rise of atheism, everything that was built on the Christian faith is destined to "collapse" (GS 343).

Is this correct?

Alexander wrote:
I do not see it as a statement of atheism, but as a “statement of facts.” Certainly by Nietzsche’s time, Western civilization entered a period where the sense of the sacred or holy had been evacuated of its value.

Let me see if I can explain what this means. Think, for example, of an aboriginal tribe in Australia. Or, think of the North American natives. Or, the Eskimo. Or, a tribe in Africa. All these cultures have one thing in common: an intrinsic value of the sacred. They may call their priest by different names: medicine man, shaman, mystic, alchemist, philosopher, magician, witch doctor, seer... but they all have him. And, he occupies a special place in society. This person has (real or imagined) knowledge of spiritual matters. In Judeo-Christian civilization, these are the prophets, the intermediaries between man and the divine. All the populace reveres this figure, goes to him for guidance and counsel, and believes in him. Note the absence of this in modern culture.

This is just one sense of the “sacred.” Another is, for instance, blasphemy. This is something we do all the time today but was quite serious in the past. We say “Jesus Christ!” when we hit our foot (because what else would we say!) but in prior times that would be considered disrespecting a sacred figure. The concept there is basically some figures (Jesus, Mary, the saints) are in some way “other.” They are “holy”: that means you aren’t supposed to refer to them in the same way you do profane or worldly things.

One last thought I had is I feel Nietzsche was definitely referring to European culture when he said “God is dead.” Europe’s wars of religion certainly changed them forever. It is interesting because Africans definitely take the idea of piety much more seriously: for example, by not making jokes about Jesus. And, if you compare with Muslims, they certainly still have a pious culture where the sacred still has value.

In my opinion, Nietzsche was certainly correct and ahead of his time. And again, it is not a statement of atheism, but a statement of the “modern condition.”

There were still churchgoers in Nietzsche's time, but he knew the shift had occurred. And, the proceeding centuries proved him right.

These days you see people going to church and think, “oh, that’s so nice and quaint” - as it's clear they still haven't fully processed the modern condition.

The death of God leads to a situation, according to Nietzsche, where we are left without any real values or purpose. This is what existentialism refers to. But, Nietzsche is very heroic about this, and says don’t despair, this is a great opportunity! Now, you will be like no other and create your own values!

[Alexander]

A questioner wrote:
I have been feeling that Hinduism as a whole fails to address structural issues with our society, and that karma is often used to justify present conditions, like people are poor because they must have done something untoward in a past life. However, I am drawn towards the fact that Vira Shaivism started as a sect that railed against caste system and challenged the authority of the Vedas. Is there a group of Vira Shaivities who could help me learn about their ideas and customs?

Alexander wrote:
I love the Indian philosophy of “life is suffering” but also “there is a way out of suffering.” I feel the Indians have the most mature life perspective on the globe.

At the same time I agree with your critiques. The Indian view slows economic and social development. The caste system and karmic determinism bring very negative sociological effects. For example in the Christian world there is compassion for the poor and the assumption those who suffer are blameless. Approaching the suffering with the western view is for sure a better approach.

I would take confidence though (going back to your question). Hinduism is a profoundly complex, multifaceted religion and there is a sect for every belief. I would say Shiva would be best for a noncaste belief. As he is Shiva Bholenath (the simple god), the Destroyer (the destroyer of artifice and contrivance - like caste), the lover, protector, and patron of the wretched and fools, and the God of Yogis (renouncer of the world and its limitations). I am also sure that the transcendent formless absolute has little interest in caste...!

A questioner wrote:
So I have a friend who passed away back in 1997. About 5 years ago I dreamt about him visiting me in my room. I was having a casual conversation with him and the setting of my dream was really in my room. He even looked at my laptop and he told me how advance technology has become. He even looked at my family photos on the wall and asked me if those are my kids at the photo. The strange thing is the setting of my dream. It’s really in my room and the way my rooms looks is the same as in my dream. Did I astral project and talk to my deceased friend? The other strange thing is I called his sister right after that and she told me it was his death anniversary. I didn’t even know that. So was that astral projection or something else?

Alexander wrote:
The dream world is sort of the lowest level of what turns into the nonphysical domain. Usually it’s just a bunch of random subconscious stuff from your day, but it’s also a place where the spiritual/nonphysical can interact with you as well.

There are a lot of accounts of people who lose a loved one then have a vivid dream of them that night where they are moving on. Could be worth a read! Might give you more confidence in what you experienced.

The same questioner wrote:
Gotcha. The strange thing is he was not in my subconscious for years. When I called his sister and told her the story she said it’s his death anniversary which I do not know. He was also looking directly at my computer and he was amazed by the technology since he died in 97 and tech was not so advance then. He also looked the same as I remember him. He did not age. He died when he was 18. I’m not really that much of a Supernatural believer but this event has puzzled me for years now. It’s just too much coincidence for it to be just a regular dream.

Another responder wrote:
Ya know, I used to work with this girl who was 19 then for a day at a warehouse. She was sort of new at the place and she was so nice to be around with. It was on a Friday. Then Monday rolled around and I noticed people looked gloom. I had found out that Saturday morning there was awful thunder storm and she was on her way to pet house sitting. Apparently, she assumed she can get across the bridge which was flooded. She got stuck and drowned. No one would able to helped her. Days after that, Tiffany was her name came into my dream looking bright and happy. She said " don't worry about me, I am okay" then she disappeared. I woke up right away feeling better and strange because I was upset knowing the fact we spend a day together before she died. So I decided to go up to her best friend who works there to tell her because I had a gut feeling that I should tell her. Eh...she looked at like I was fucking nuts and sort of rude to me. I just let it go then and at least I told her best friend. After that, I was feeling at peace with Tiffany.

A questioner wrote:
Oh god I'm suffering right now as I write this. I wanted this to be a dream, a bad nightmare my brain invented. But it's not. I remember my past life. Very clearly and it gets clearer with each passing day. At first it was just glimpses of trees and running. A jungle of some sort. But then I started seeing people. And it turns out I was a very bad person. I distinctly remember being an American soldier during the Vietnam War. I remember committing heinous acts during the war in the name of democracy. Terrible things to men, women and children. It sickens me to my core but I remember these things. You can say this is me just making things up or whatever, but the only thing I can't remember is my name. This of course prevents me from verifying anything. I just have all this regret built up inside. I don't know how I was ever this person, but goddamn does it hurt. I'm so sorry to the descendants of everyone I killed.

Alexander wrote:
If it is true - and verifying would be rough - remember we get that amnesia at birth for a reason. This is a new life, a clean start. Penance and charity don’t hurt if you feel you should. But this is also a life to now be pacific and pure.

That war was one of the most horrible in human history. Everyone today knows it was a tragedy in every capacity. Wrong intentions, misunderstanding, slaughtering and killing. The suffering of the Vietnamese people, and all those young Americans sent to the other side of the world. And you are told you’re there for democracy and freedom: young, ignorant, and impressionable in your 18s and 20s, emotionally disturbed due to the training for war - you can’t take complete accountability for it all. The politicians who sent the sons there deserve blame as well.

And - look at what happened to Vietnam after. One of the bloodiest conflicts of all time, only for the GDP of Vietnam to go from ~5000 to ~500 dollars under communist economic control. The genocide in Cambodia next door. Now, today America and Vietnam realize we should be friends. This is the world...

A commenter wrote:
And now Aeneas saw a secluded grove in a receding valley, with rustling woodland thickets, and the river of Lethe gliding past those peaceful places. Innumerable tribes and peoples hovered round it: just as, in the meadows, on a cloudless summer’s day, the bees settle on the multifarious flowers, and stream round the bright lilies, and all the fields hum with their buzzing. Aeneas was thrilled by the sudden sight, and, in ignorance, asked the cause: what the river is in the distance, who the men are crowding the banks in such numbers. Then his father Anchises answered: “They are spirits, owed a second body by destiny, and they drink the happy waters, and a last forgetting, at Lethe’s stream. Indeed, for a long time I’ve wished to tell you of them, and show you them face to face, to enumerate my children’s descendants, so you might joy with me more at finding Italy.” “O father, is it to be thought that any spirits go from here to the sky above, returning again to dull matter?” “Indeed I’ll tell you, son, not keep you in doubt,” Anchises answered, and revealed each thing in order.

The Transmigration of Souls
“Firstly, a spirit within them nourishes the sky and earth, the watery plains, the shining orb of the moon, and Titan’s star, and Mind, flowing through matter, vivifies the whole mass, and mingles with its vast frame. From it come the species of man and beast, and winged lives, and the monsters the sea contains beneath its marbled waves. The power of those seeds is fiery, and their origin divine, so long as harmful matter doesn’t impede them and terrestrial bodies and mortal limbs don’t dull them. Through those they fear and desire, and grieve and joy, and enclosed in night and a dark dungeon, can’t see the light. Why, when life leaves them at the final hour, still all of the evil, all the plagues of the flesh, alas, have not completely vanished, and many things, long hardened deep within, must of necessity be ingrained, in strange ways. So they are scourged by torments, and pay the price for former sins: some are hung, stretched out, to the hollow winds, the taint of wickedness is cleansed for others in vast gulfs, or burned away with fire: each spirit suffers its own: then we are sent through wide Elysium, and we few stay in the joyous fields, for a length of days, till the cycle of time, complete, removes the hardened stain, and leaves pure ethereal thought, and the brightness of natural air. All these others the god calls in a great crowd to the river Lethe, after they have turned the wheel for a thousand years, so that, truly forgetting, they can revisit the vault above, and begin with a desire to return to the flesh.” (The Aeneid)

Alexander wrote:
Socrates and Plato refer to this same topic, if I recall correctly (the Lethe). Thanks for this share for sure. I knew Aeneas went to the underworld, but never knew of this reference in Virgil.

It shows that even in the Western world (the world not influenced by Buddhism / Hinduism), the concept of reincarnation was out there and accessible.

The problem of the Lethe is definitely the biggest one for reincarnation. You forget everything - all your past knowledge / experience - when you take on a human form. It's amnesia.

If we have been returning over and over again across the ages, Socrates was correct in saying all learning is remembering (anamnesis), since we have had all knowledge at some prior point in time.

The disease, aging, and pain of the human condition make incarnation here very questionable, though. Certainly there is much to learn from the difficulty of the human experience: and there is definitely heroism in a human birth, sure, if you can overcome all that adversity and still manage to accomplish something. But I think I prefer the nonphysical domain myself!

A new responder wrote:
I believe adversity is why we are here. Our souls crave stories. Without adversity, there is no story.

Another responder wrote:
The soul doesn’t take adversity here particularly seriously. More like a night out to a scary movie or a roller coaster.

[Alexander]

A questioner wrote:
There are so many reincarnation theories and theories of how karma works. It is so confusing! Which is closest to the truth? How does karma work? Which mistakes or sins respectively lead to punishments like physical defects, mental diseases, autism, discrimination, poverty, etc?

Alexander wrote:
I have read everything on the topic over the years, so you might want to read: Plato, the Buddhist sutras, Brian Weiss, Bob Monroe, William Buhlman, the Bhagavad Gita, P. D. Ouspensky, Ian Stevenson...

Having pondered it for years I don’t think I can give you full clarity. I do certainly believe in reincarnation and believe that we are nonphysical beings that at some point chose to descend here. I think birth brings amnesia with it, and due to that we forget our true spiritual nature, identify falsely with form and matter, and get stuck here.

In regard to karma, I think it’s complex. I think seeing it all as punishment / reward is too simple: but in some cases that is correct. If you smoke, yes, you will destroy your lungs. If you commit a murder, it may take 10 or 30 years but eventually you will be punished. There is karma in those ways.

But, karma is also delayed. That makes the world so complicated, where the righteous suffer and the evil prosper. Perhaps you will reap the fruit of your actions in the next life and not in this one. Or, perhaps your actions may catch up with you in 20 years.

The Hindus think if you are well intentioned you are born beautiful and if you are malicious you are born ugly. They think the charitable become wealthy and thieves cast themselves into poverty. They think those who value learning become wise and those who disparage learning become stupid. I remember the line in the Gita where Krishna says “wise souls incarnate in wise wombs and stupid souls in the wombs of fools.” I used to work in the inner city and (while definitely there are good people there!) the constant shiftless, scheming, lying, stealing, violent ways of the people I met made me feel fate was putting them together for a reason. Those are the people the Gita says have a “tamasic” temperament.

In some places in Asia they lack sympathy for the sick / afflicted due to the belief in karma. When I think about that, I do much prefer the western sympathy for the ill / suffering, assuming they are innocent, and think that’s the wiser POV.

I think that both free will and destiny are correct. Perhaps fate may put you in a situation, and then it becomes your choice what you do there. It would be a rather unimpressive cosmos without the existence of either.

Karma I think is an educative force... but there is / can also be some aspect of personal agency in it. For example you may choose to take on the form of an injured person even if that is not necessarily your karma / punishment.
In a lot of ways I also believe in what Job said, that God makes the righteous suffer to no end. It is a very complex world... I don’t know if I helped, haha!

A questioner wrote:
How do I contact my spirit guide? If I want to find someone with just a name and haven't seen in a while will I be able to find them with my spirit guide's help?

Alexander wrote:
I experience what I call the Inner Director as a kind of inner voice that speaks to me now and then. It’s a super elusive and hard to pin down thing, and even now it’s still ambiguous when I’m interpreting it correctly and if I’m being sure I’m not just talking to myself.

Keep in mind I’m saying “voice” but 99% of the time it isn’t an actual voice. It’s more like an intuition or revelation that comes from within, and it feels different / distinct from my usual inner monologue.

This is definitely something possible to us all, but I think requires years of work, self-criticism, and opening oneself up to this influence. The fact it is so quiet, so elusive, and so hard to distinguish from your own thoughts makes it a rare phenomenon.

Sometimes it manifests as an inner “push” to do something, or a pull not to do something. Other times it will actually vocalize a clear comment / idea. I will give you an example. Recently, after working for my boss very ably for 4 years, I received a terrible performance review and felt absolutely awful. This is one of the times I’m relatively confident the Inner Director said something, the simple statement “it’s not going to matter.”

I have to be honest, the Inner Director really is not there for me a lot of the time. I will ask it for help or guidance at other times and it will say nothing. It will (apparently) mislead me or lead me to do things that cause suffering. It lets me founder or not have clear direction on what I should do. It seems very random the times I hear it. I assume this is connected is some way to fate / destiny, that even those bad things and the sense of being lost are a part of one’s path.

You may want to read Teresa of Avila’s Inner Castle for more information. I think it is the section on auditions (I forget the exact term she uses). It is common for the mystics of history to experience these things, and they generally rely on their inner voices to guide them. I also think of Socrates’ daimonion which he alluded to at his trial.

If you read the Spanish mystics, they generally counsel that the further the experience is from an actual vision or voice, the better. So, for them the most real experience is one of an intuition. No real verbalization at all.

I don’t know if that source is a spirit guide, a number (ie multiple) of helpers in the nonphysical, or if it is “you”: your higher self. For me I just call it the Inner Director and know that it is the best counselor to follow.

There is also a section on this in Evelyn Underhill’s Mysticism. And, automatic writing (as Underhill describes) is a manifestation of this as well. Certainly the best creative basis for an artist is relying on the inspirations that come from that source. The Greeks called it the muses, and it probably plays a role in all great art.

Alexander wrote:
I read what you wrote earlier. I’ve been trying to answer a question and wanted your thoughts.

Once you’re dead, what compels reincarnation (being born as a human again)? I can’t see any positive to it (given aging, sickness, death, and the amnesia that happens when you’re born). Thanks for any insight.
 
ro replied:
Before I tell you anything, this is my opinion and I'm just like you a human being, with a very limited perception compared to the infinite perception of my soul-level / higher self consciousness.

If I think, why am I here, when I was infinity? Well, probably because I can be. Within infinity there is everything, so necessarily, I have experienced everything. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. If I simplify it, I'm here to guide, I am a spiritual teacher, while also growing myself. It's almost certain that everyone is here to grow spiritually, but we will also have our own life plans, and specific lessons that we are seeking from this experience.

Right, onto your question!

What compels reincarnation is the same thing that compels your beliefs in this world... culture. What is culture? It is the combination of knowledge and beliefs of society. The big message is, culture is controlled by authorities, be they the scientific establishment, the education syllabus creators, the religions, the media (huge one), Hollywood, corporate management etc... At the top of the pyramid are the global elite and they have their fingers in all these pies, controlling the message. What most people don't understand, because they have no knowledge of a life beyond death, or they have no certainty about it, is that the afterlife is also controlled. Souls who believe in science, go to the astral university district, souls who believe in Buddhism go to the monastery district, souls who believe in Christianity go to the heaven district. In these districts they meet likeminded souls and they create that reality together, through ideas they learned in their life, as well as ideas they have in the afterlife. They share knowledge in their echo chambers and co-create that reality together. This is the "structure of the astral plane" and realize these are all levels of manipulation.

Okay... then why do they reincarnate? Why do you do anything? Why do you go to the doctor when you are sick, why do you join Facebook and post messages of your cat, why do you believe in God, why do you believe Buddhism is correct, why are you a patriot, why are you pro-choice or pro-life? Most of the things we believe, follow the same basic premise...

We are convinced of some truth and we exercise our free will and make that choice. This is the key point here, none of these systems stop you from exercising your free will. Free will is a universal law. However, these systems have manipulated you into using your free will to make the choice they want you to make. So you reincarnate because it is suggested in the afterlife and then you agree to it. That process can be personal to you. Perhaps some "angel" comes down and suggests that you should go back to Earth to be a missionary, or you should go back because you sinned too much and need to make amends. Perhaps you enter a council where some board reviews you life and it is just suggested to you that now you need to have a new life with a new lesson plan. Whatever the reason, fundamentally it is suggested to you in some way and you exercise your free will and agree to it. Then you probably choose a life, set up a life plan, and go and do it.

If you didn't reincarnate on Earth you will still choose to reincarnate somewhere eventually. Eventually you would get bored of being an infinite being, all knowing, etcetera. You would think, wouldn't it be interesting to go to that planet and have that experience? I clearly thought this would be interesting, so here I am, despite the amnesia, despite the suffering, despite the death (which is just a transition to a different form of existence). We are infinite beings, so it's all part of infinity anyway.
Having said all that, it's good to be lighthearted about this stuff at the same time!
 
Alexander replied:
Thanks, excellent response; it's very similar to what I've been thinking and great food for thought for sure. I wish you well on your quest as well!

[Tad]

Hi Alexander,

Interesting discussion about karma and rebirth. I would love to hear from Jhananda regarding this. Since he was able to recollect his past lifes, I wonder if he noticed any specific patterns.

[Jhanananda]

Thanks for asking, Tad. In most of my previous lifetime recollections I was a marginalized, or martyred mystic. So, the message I got is the ruling class and priesthood hate mystics, and most people hate what mystics stand for.

[Tad]

Thanks for asking, Tad. In most of my previous lifetime recollections I was a marginalized, or martyred mystic. So, the message I got is the ruling class and priesthood hate mystics, and most people hate what mystics stand for.

Considering that this world is an ego world, it is not surprising that the ego tries to destroy anything that threatens it.

[Jhanananda]

Well said, Tad. Another way of looking at it is if we examine closely the history of religion, let's specifically refer to the Catholic Church, but it applies as much to Buddhism and Judaism, we see that the people who become priests are generally the second son of a ruling class person, and the higher one's rank in the church the higher one's family's rank is socially. And, the ruling class has always had a close relationship with institutionalized religion. If the progenitor of the religion was a genuine mystic, such as Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama, then the pretentious and hypocritical priesthood always doesn't understand mysticism, and they are after all frauds who don't want to be exposed, so when a genuine mystic comes along, it is always the job of the mystic to expose the lies that have accreted to the religion, so the mystic gets marginalized by the ruling class to preserve their control over the masses.

[Tad]

If you didn't reincarnate on Earth you will still choose to reincarnate somewhere eventually. Eventually you would get bored of being an infinite being, all knowing, etcetera. You would think, wouldn't it be interesting to go to that planet and have that experience? I clearly thought this would be interesting, so here I am, despite the amnesia, despite the suffering, despite the death (which is just a transition to a different form of existence). We are infinite beings, so it's all part of infinity anyway.

Hello Alexander,

I think the Buddha from Pali Canon would not agree with the assessment above. According to the suttas, we have already gone through pretty much infinite number of rebirths and done it all. We have shed more tears than there is water in the four oceans (SN 15.3). So what is the value of continuing the cycle of rebirths? How can we be bored in infinity when there is no self in infinity?

[Alexander]

Hello Alexander,

I think the Buddha from Pali Canon would not agree with the assessment above. According to the suttas, we have already gone through pretty much infinite number of rebirths and done it all. We have shed more tears than there is water in the four oceans (SN 15.3). So what is the value of continuing the cycle of rebirths? How can we be bored in infinity when there is no self in infinity?

Yes and I saved this quote because it contradicts Buddhist orthodoxy -- and (also) repeats a statement made by Jeff previously. The idea that even post-Nirvana it is still possible to descend and reincarnate and have experience again.

These are some of the most complex and transcendent questions and we are being very bold in assuming we can have certain knowledge of these things. Does the cosmos -- like us in breathing -- involve and evolve, contract and expand, immanate and emanate? Does the divine "I" continually disperse into the infinite multiplicity of beings, who then spiritually mature and return to it, only to have the process repeat? This is one of the great philosophical questions so I will defer to Jeff if he has anything to add.

[Alexander]

It also raises another question: what is the "I" that descends? From the perspective of Nirvana, wouldn't it all be "I"? Are we not all "I," me, One? It is all "I," it is all "me." You and I are one being -- talking to myself. "I" am descending, it is "me" descending, down here to interact with myself.

It is something that we as humans cannot understand.

I think this is why in Buddhism it is called the "unfathomables."

[Tad]

Yes and I saved this quote because it contradicts Buddhist orthodoxy -- and (also) repeats a statement made by Jeff previously. The idea that even post-Nirvana it is still possible to descend and reincarnate and have experience again.

I can see how it might be possible to descend from nirvana for some higher purpose such as teaching human beings. After all nirvana is beyond any definition. So who is to define it? But for non liberated beings existence in the world of selves is inseparable from greed, lust, hatred, etc. So I cannot see how the liberated mind would ever want to return to such mind states. It would be literally insane.

[Alexander]

Correct most religions have that idea of avatars, of saintly or holy people who descend to re-teach or restore the dharma when human beings go astray on earth. I believe Buddhism has a similar tale about this for the Buddha.