Neuroscience research into consciousness

[Alexander]

Since you mention the University of Virginia you may already know of Dr. Ian Stevenson, who was an author of several very interesting books on reincarnation.

The biggest problem I find, is replicable studies, because very obviously - Inducing out-of-body experiences through drugging or stimulating various parts of the brain through electricity are not very good methods. Instead, I find that if one were to really want to have a good study, they should find accomplished meditators who have already been able to generate a manomaya.

My belief about this is that religious knowledge is always esoteric. Meaning, the truth about these topics can never be brought into the public domain. There is a quality about religious knowledge that, when it is made public, it is misinterpreted by people. It is an unfortunate situation. The dispensers of this knowledge also end up subject to character assassination, and the information they're giving out always loses its verifiability.

[Jhanananda]

On the other hand, I just wrote an article about the various neuroscience "evidences" as an assignment in a university and had to research. This is a collection of evidences that I have come across in the research, which sounds promising:

1. Full, working, unhindered consciousness despite minimal brain tissue (despite hydrocephaly). One case had 5% brain tissue and still had an IQ of 126, a graduate student in Mathematics from Cambridge. This can be in spite of brain death (Lazurus patients who spontaneously recover) or even heart arrest/brain-dead patients. This strongly hints that consciousness might not completely depend on the brain itself.

2. Verified past-life memories of children aged 2-5 years old - by name, occupation and family details. This shows that at least memory itself, can indeed exist prior to the development of the brain. This hints of objective evidence for reincarnation. There is no other possibility that this evidence is refuted if the research is authentic.

3. Spontaneous recovery of lucidity in patients suffering from brain or neurological disorders. Perfect sanity, coherence, just moments before death. Verified many times, by over thousands of cases. Also verified in a nursing home by 70% of caretaker nurses.

4. Out-of-body experiences, even verified, by several case studies. 3rd person perspectives. Somehow, all of them report the same experiences despite not knowing each other. I am following some by the university of virginia.

Good research.  I too had started collecting scientific case histories that would support the experiences of various psychic phenomena that is accessible to contemplatives.  So, keep it up, because I think it is valid work.

The biggest problem I find, is replicable studies, because very obviously - Inducing out-of-body experiences through drugging or stimulating various parts of the brain through electricity are not very good methods. Instead, I find that if one were to really want to have a good study, they should find accomplished meditators who have already been able to generate a manomaya. But even so, I am not sure if one could, for example, be able to read something in the next room.

I don't know if this is a right analogy, but I feel like the brain is like a radio. If the brain is broken, then it is like breaking a radio - You cannot hear the music. However, it does not mean that the radio waves do not exist.

This poses a conundrum, because the contemplative with such attainments is rarely interested in doing back-flips.  I believe the NDE is the best source of validating evidence, as it reads like a genuine OOBE.

My belief about this is that religious knowledge is always esoteric. Meaning, the truth about these topics can never be brought into the public domain. There is a quality about religious knowledge that, when it is made public, it is misinterpreted by people. It is an unfortunate situation. The dispensers of this knowledge also end up subject to character assassination, and the information they're giving out always loses its verifiability.

I think that you are onto something here.  I think the herd will never accept our experiences as valid, so we need not bother to impress them.

[Jhanananda]

Here is an interesting article on research into communicating with people in lucid dreams. Researchers found Lucid dreamers can hear and answer questions while still asleep, scientists find

[Alexander]

Yep, saw this one this morning. It is interesting how the cosmos keeps the door open to people to experience the sacred. Even those who have had religion ruined for them by corrupt priesthoods, can find a doorway through dreaming or lucid dreaming. One of the interesting possibilities being the lucid dream-OOBE transfer.

One of the keys I think is the REM stage. The OOB people say it's essential to getting good vibrations throughout the body. They usually awaken just after or try to stimulate vibrations just prior to it to greater success. And, OOBEs happen during the REM phase.

What you experience every night is really the "optimal" scenario. Persistent vibratory phenomena throughout the day saturating your presence, and OOBEs nightly each time you enter REM.

[Jhanananda]

Thank you, Alexander, for posting your interesting take on lucid dreaming and the OOBE, which I agree with. On your reference to the 'vibration' here it is one of many charisms that we have discussed, which we find here begin to arise in the 3rd stage (jhana) of depth in meditation, lucidity is developed in the 4th stage (jhana), and the OOBE is from the 5th to the 8th stages of depth in meditation, which were known in the Pali Canon as 'ayatana.'

[Valdy]

My first OOB years ago started with vibrations, since then they have all been spontaneous without vibrations, the first scared me so much that I asked my spirit to get me OOB first and then wake me up, that has worked but I would like to do more.

Robert Monroe in his book Journeys Out of the Body pages 207-227 talks about how to start up the vibrations, I have not been able to do that.
I wonder if anyone could coment on his method, I have those pages scanned in and could post them if someone wants to see them, there are 20 pages.
Bless Valdy

[Jhanananda]

Thanks, Valdy, for your contribution to the dialog here.  I hope you are well, and at ease. It would be great if you could turn your scanned pages into a single PDF file, and upload it here, so we can all read and critique it.

I recall reading Robert Monroe's book Journey out of the Body back in 1974.  And, it helped me a lot when at the time there was almost no literature on the subject of the OOBE. So, I don't recall his method.

In my experience,  and the common experience here, has been is practicing observation of the breath, and relaxation, and doing that lying down, and doing deep relaxation, to still the mind, and observing the rise of the charisms, and switching from whatever meditation object one is using to observing the charisms.

Also, at the time I developed the OOBE I was also engaged in cognitive practice to build lucidity in the sleep state, which was primarily maintaining a daily meditation practice that was focused upon depth, and journaling my dreams and intending to have lucid dreams.

[Alexander]

Hello again Valdy,

Yes, I have read this from OOB practitioners, that many claim to go out regularly but do not experience the vibratory state. Your experience of the OOBE is more evidence of this.

In my own experience, I have felt mild vibrations in the hands and feet when meditating (I can't feel the vibrations in the feet so much these days due to the neuropathy), but I have never been able to elevate these to a "kundalini" ecstasy, or an intense state which I can then transition to an OOBE.

Others claim this as their main method. They saturate themselves with the vibrations, increase them, then separate.

Having read Bob Monroe's method, it is very similar to Jeff's. It is the so-called "direct method," involving lying down usually for an hour or more, relaxing deeply. The idea being this causes the vibratory state which can then allow separation.

I would say the main difference between Bob and Jeff is that Jeff advocates for saturating yourself 24/7 with the vibratory phenomena. Doing this naturally produces nightly OOBEs for him. As far as I know, Bob never attempted to saturate himself with the vibrations full-time, and would not have meditated as much as Jeff.

William Buhlman, who was Bob's successor, wrote he could never make the direct method work for him. But, he used the creative visualization method (imagination being a faculty of the nonphysical consciousness) to induce vibrations which allowed him to separate.

Mike Raduga teaches classes on the "indirect method." The method of awakening in the early morning from sleeping, and catching oneself on leaving from REM and using that as a springboard to separate. He claims great success at getting people out using this way, and writes in his book the extreme difficulty of the direct method for most people.

I myself would be happy to just find one way that would work for me, haha.