I was wondering if we could dialogue on the out-of-body experience, since it is one of the most essential topics when it comes to the questions of immortality and reincarnation.
I myself did not believe in them for years, thinking they were illusions of the brain, but I was heartened when Jeff began talking about these experiences, which I was able to aggregate with others I had read on the topic (William Buhlman and Bob Monroe).
If we read the suttas, it appears the Buddha experienced OOBEs based on his explanations of the different states of being (asura, deva, ghost, human, animal) and the spirit world. We also find allusions to them in St. Paul’s mention of “whether in the body or outside of it I do not know” and Mohammed’s spiritual “night journey.”
Some of the big questions might be:
1 How do we know the OOBE is a separation of consciousness from the body, and not just an experience limited to the brain (when alive)?
Recently I watched an interview with someone who experienced clinical death, and he claimed he experienced nothing, and I wonder why he has that experience when others report NDEs.
I have seen NDEs have become very seriously integrated into the scientific literature these days, which is a huge change, but I saw one statistic saying only 4% of those experiencing clinical death report them, which seems low.
2 Understanding the difference between the form-based worlds and the formless worlds.
That is, when out of body one can take on the image of the human you were in life, or become a singular point of awareness.
I was watching William Buhlman give a lecture to the Bob Monroe Foundation, and he explained the priority of going to the formless, invoking the Tibetan Book of the Dead as understanding this.
3 Understanding one’s fate in the post-death state.
A common answer to this is the idea of “like attracts like”?
I’ve learned surprisingly few NDErs report hell experiences, perhaps only 10%, despite all the fears of it that existed for centuries and were inculcated through systems like Catholicism. William Buhlman spoke of the fear of his father in dying, after growing up in such beliefs and having had to kill Japanese soldiers in World War II, which violated the commandment of “Thou shalt not kill.”
4 Understanding what compels reincarnation from the nonphysical state. What the purpose of human life is and why we chose (or were compelled?) to descend here.
There was one dialogue I had on this years ago:
https://alexanderlorincz.com/index.php/dialogues/why-do-we-returnThe often cited answer is to “learn.” William Buhlman in one of his presentations gave a kind of anti-Buddhist answer, and actually said it’s fine we return again and again because our true nature is immortal and we have eternity to explore the universe.
5 Related to that, what the purpose is of suffering.
I read one account of a soul of someone who had a chronic illness who was claimed to be brighter in the spirit world, and we all would like that to be the case, but at the same time so much of it feels futile and useless. (Having gone through plenty of it personally
.)
6 Whether it’s true we choose our parents before birth, as is claimed in some OOBE literature, and in Plato’s account of the Myth of Er.
7 What the lowest level of being with a spirit is, like an insect; how souls match with bodies; and the “logistics” of it?
My uncle gave a very nihilistic answer to this once when I was walking with him. He pointed to a rabbit and asked “How is the rabbit different from you?” Meaning it would be great if there was a soul, but we should conclude our consciousness is mechanical just as that of the rabbit’s is.
8 Whether there really are gods, like Shiva and Ganesha, in the spirit world; if there are ancient gods like Zeus and Hera; or if they are inventions of human imagination.
9 What the focus of religion should be on, given all this information.
One of the questions I had was whether Christ or the Buddha was the greater spiritual teacher. It seems certain spiritual masters, like Christ and John of the Cross, don’t include OOBEs in their teachings, so one wonders whether that would make them less effective teachers, or if it doesn’t impact their fate in the post-death world.
